oil for '72 Ferrari
- Thread starter Pantdino
- Start date
- Status
I looked at the oil recommendations for some other cars I have or still have the shop manuals for:
1978 Alfa Romeo--Haynes manual states Castrol GTX 10-50
1973 De Tomaso Pantera (351 Cleveland)-- shop manual says 10-40 oil good for -10 to 90*F, 20-50 good from 32 to 120.
1995 BMW M3-- owner's manual says 10w40 conventional good only up to 60*F, 15-40 good to 85*. 20-50 recommended above that.
All these listings make me EXTREMELY uncomfortable using anything less than an X-50 oil. I realize these other cars are not Ferraris, but they reflect the oil requirements of various cars of American and European manufacture then and not too long ago.
One fellow on the DeTomaso forum uses single weight oil in his engines and feels that the trend toward lower viscosity oils is a reaction on the part of manufacturers to lower emissions, as they seal the rings better during warm up. The maker of his boat engine (350 Chevy) went so far as to say they'd void his warranty if he used multi-grade oil in it.
Comments?
1978 Alfa Romeo--Haynes manual states Castrol GTX 10-50
1973 De Tomaso Pantera (351 Cleveland)-- shop manual says 10-40 oil good for -10 to 90*F, 20-50 good from 32 to 120.
1995 BMW M3-- owner's manual says 10w40 conventional good only up to 60*F, 15-40 good to 85*. 20-50 recommended above that.
All these listings make me EXTREMELY uncomfortable using anything less than an X-50 oil. I realize these other cars are not Ferraris, but they reflect the oil requirements of various cars of American and European manufacture then and not too long ago.
One fellow on the DeTomaso forum uses single weight oil in his engines and feels that the trend toward lower viscosity oils is a reaction on the part of manufacturers to lower emissions, as they seal the rings better during warm up. The maker of his boat engine (350 Chevy) went so far as to say they'd void his warranty if he used multi-grade oil in it.
Comments?
Hi,
the lighter - thicker debate has been beaten to death here but this may interest you;
1941 Model US Cars - Oil grades for all Makes and Models
The most common recommendations for in-line 4, 6, 8cyl and V8, V12 follow;
Engine:
Over 32F = 0 or 20W ( highest 30 ), then some 90F> 30, 40 ( highest 50 )
Over 10F = 20W ( lowest 10W )
Over -10F = 10W
Below -10F = 10W ( plus 10% Kerosine - for all vehicles except Crosley )
Gearbox in Summer = 40, 50 , 70, SAE 90, SAE 90 EP, SAE 140 (1)
Gearbox in Winter = 30, 40, 50
Automatic = Hydra-Matic fluid
Rear Axle Over 0F = 80 EP, 90 EP, 80 Hypoid, 90 Hypoid, 140 EP
Rear Axle Below-0F = 80 EP, 80 Hypoid
So low viscosity oils really are not a new thing?
The thicker multigrade oils probably started in 1958/9 with the BMC Mini. This vehicle needed a 20w-50 oil for it's integral engine/gearbox package. That oil was developed by Duckhams. Prior to this, 10w30, 20w-30 and 30-40 oils were available
Synthetic viscosities are typically recommended over a wider temperature spread than minerals oils in a similar grade. That may reduce your concerns a little
Regards
the lighter - thicker debate has been beaten to death here but this may interest you;
1941 Model US Cars - Oil grades for all Makes and Models
The most common recommendations for in-line 4, 6, 8cyl and V8, V12 follow;
Engine:
Over 32F = 0 or 20W ( highest 30 ), then some 90F> 30, 40 ( highest 50 )
Over 10F = 20W ( lowest 10W )
Over -10F = 10W
Below -10F = 10W ( plus 10% Kerosine - for all vehicles except Crosley )
Gearbox in Summer = 40, 50 , 70, SAE 90, SAE 90 EP, SAE 140 (1)
Gearbox in Winter = 30, 40, 50
Automatic = Hydra-Matic fluid
Rear Axle Over 0F = 80 EP, 90 EP, 80 Hypoid, 90 Hypoid, 140 EP
Rear Axle Below-0F = 80 EP, 80 Hypoid
So low viscosity oils really are not a new thing?
The thicker multigrade oils probably started in 1958/9 with the BMC Mini. This vehicle needed a 20w-50 oil for it's integral engine/gearbox package. That oil was developed by Duckhams. Prior to this, 10w30, 20w-30 and 30-40 oils were available
Synthetic viscosities are typically recommended over a wider temperature spread than minerals oils in a similar grade. That may reduce your concerns a little
Regards
What does HDEO stand for?
Is there a glossary on this site where all such abbreviations are listed?
How about a listing of all the MSDS specs for the various oils that are being discussed?
Thanks again for all your help!
Is there a glossary on this site where all such abbreviations are listed?
How about a listing of all the MSDS specs for the various oils that are being discussed?
Thanks again for all your help!
- Joined
- May 27, 2002
- Messages
- 653
Pantdino, HDEO is for Heavy Duty Engine Oil.
[ February 20, 2004, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: krholm ]
[ February 20, 2004, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: krholm ]
Sorry I can't contribute to the level of most members here. I'm simply a regular Joe, auto enthusiast, who's interested in learning about this stuff as best I can without making myself nuts (or more so than I already am).
I just wanted to say nice car! I remember a gent who had a beautful red Dino (among other great cars) garaged at my father's building for a few years. I would stare and drool at that car and hope the guy would ask me along for a ride, which never happened. I did get to buff it out for him though. What great lines! It may not be the most collectible Ferrari or fastest but it sure is a looker.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program and recommendations.
Mikep
I just wanted to say nice car! I remember a gent who had a beautful red Dino (among other great cars) garaged at my father's building for a few years. I would stare and drool at that car and hope the guy would ask me along for a ride, which never happened. I did get to buff it out for him though. What great lines! It may not be the most collectible Ferrari or fastest but it sure is a looker.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program and recommendations.
Mikep
Pretty sweeping statement there! Valvoline "consistantly" shows poorer results. Look at ALL the valvoline results, averaged out, they are equal to any other oil out there. Yes, there are a few bad results, like the Lumina, WHICH HAS A COOLENT LEAK. There were a few other bad results as well, but there are a few bad results for any oil. It's not the oil, it's the engine. Durablend and Synpower consistantly put out excellent numbers. I'm not trying to pick nits here, but bashing Valvoline at all costs is not warrented. After all, more ASE mechanics use it than any other oil
Just like to share something I had read a while ago but couldn't find it again:
They said in the older ferraris to not use synthetics becuase their seals are not made to tolerate the stress. Being the engine is rebuilt, I would probably say it would be okay to use synthetics (if you want) since they most likely used seals from the 21st century and not ancient ones (i hope!).
Just my 2 cents.
They said in the older ferraris to not use synthetics becuase their seals are not made to tolerate the stress. Being the engine is rebuilt, I would probably say it would be okay to use synthetics (if you want) since they most likely used seals from the 21st century and not ancient ones (i hope!).
Just my 2 cents.
Yeah, that makes me want to run right out and by Valvoline.quote:
Originally posted by Drew99GT:
I'm not trying to pick nits here, but bashing Valvoline at all costs is not warrented. After all, more ASE mechanics use it than any other oil
And I stand by what I wrote: Overall, Valvoline rarely posts decent UOA results, let alone outstanding ones.
Careful, read when the engine was rebuilt...
So I don't think you can assume the seals are "modern"
TB
Ditto ! No tractor oils for this one
If you read the labels backwards I believe it says something about pre-war Fiatsquote:
Originally posted by Chris:
Do the "tractor" oils have any applications in a passenger car?
One thing everyone seems to agree on is that startup wear is minimized by the additives such as molybdenum, and that's one thing I want to address in my oil choice.
Is there somewhere on this site where I can look at the moly levels of the virgin oils? Are there other additives that prevent startup wear?
The points re not driving the car enough are valid, and I most likely will be driving it more now that my kids are grown.
However, this car is about how it looks and how it sounds, both being absolutely wonderful. But flogging it is just plain stupid, as there is no road on earth on which my M3 or Pantera wouln't blow its doors off.
Is there somewhere on this site where I can look at the moly levels of the virgin oils? Are there other additives that prevent startup wear?
The points re not driving the car enough are valid, and I most likely will be driving it more now that my kids are grown.
However, this car is about how it looks and how it sounds, both being absolutely wonderful. But flogging it is just plain stupid, as there is no road on earth on which my M3 or Pantera wouln't blow its doors off.
Whatever. Bash Valvoline and feel better I guessquote:
Originally posted by G-Man II:
Yeah, that makes me want to run right out and by Valvoline.quote:
Originally posted by Drew99GT:
I'm not trying to pick nits here, but bashing Valvoline at all costs is not warrented. After all, more ASE mechanics use it than any other oil
And I stand by what I wrote: Overall, Valvoline rarely posts decent UOA results, let alone outstanding ones.
Patman
Staff member
Yes, check out the Virgin Oil Analysis section.
Oil soluable moly is a good anti-oxident/ friction modifier and boundry lube that helps protect when zinc is near failing and I've read here and elsewhere it activates or plates initially at around 500f metal temp. Your engine should be well below that at start-up
There are other additives that are polar in nature and stick to the internal components and are there , attached and ready to protect on start. Some of these include anti-corrosion additives and Esters and possibly even Esterfied VI Improvers that serve dual roles .
TooSlick would be better to ask than I about the latter additives I spoke of if he was inclined to respond .
Guys he has rebuilt the engine! Rest assured that part of that $9000 rebuild was new seals! THe new seals would be made from modern florocarbons not leather, rope and natural rubber! If I had to venture a guess I would hope that the kit used Fruedenburg-Nok seals!
Nok brand seals are CNC machined from a solid piece of the material being used. They are not injection molded like cheap seals!
With this said he will not have any oil related compatability problems!
Delvac-1 5W40 is going to give you excellent flow, pumpability and TBN retension! It will provide much better valvetrain protection. Castrol 20W50 is not a bad oil but it takes to long to pump up in a car that is not driven frequently and is already experinceing egg shelling on the cam lobes!
Nok brand seals are CNC machined from a solid piece of the material being used. They are not injection molded like cheap seals!
With this said he will not have any oil related compatability problems!
Delvac-1 5W40 is going to give you excellent flow, pumpability and TBN retension! It will provide much better valvetrain protection. Castrol 20W50 is not a bad oil but it takes to long to pump up in a car that is not driven frequently and is already experinceing egg shelling on the cam lobes!
- Status
