Oil for 2000 Honda Insight

[mikecz]

Hi, The owner's manual says,

Quote

A very low-viscosity, fuel-efficient 0W-20 oil is preferred engine lubricant for your Insight. This special oil is formulated to help your engine use less fuel. It is available at your Honda dealer. A 5W-20 or 5W-30 oil may be used if 0W-20 is not available.

The engine is 1.0l, 3 cylinder, normally aspirated, with electric assist/regen. It has a simple start/stop system, so unlike the prius, it is spinning almost all of the time, even at low torque demand. It stops when coming to a stop, waiting at lights, etc. It takes about 2.5l of oil for the change, so not very much. The current oil in the engine is Toyota 0W-20 Full Synthetic. The previous time it was Honda 0W-20 Full Synthetic. It didn't seem to burn any oil either time. The car is used from about April to October, with night-time lows maybe to 0C during the early spring and maybe late fall. During the summers the daytime highs can get to 30+C. It is stored for the rest of the year. It often goes only ~5 km per trip in the morning (two trips, about 1 hour apart); this is almost daily. It also gets driven around town, and gets some highway use, with possibly a couple ~2000km (round-trip distance) trips this year. I'm considering Pennzoil or Mobil 1, leaning towards Pennzoil because it ends up being ~$20-25+tax per 5l after rebate, as opposed to Mobil 1 which is about $30-35 per 5 quarts (or sometimes 4.4l even), and with no rebate up here in Canada as far as I know. However, if Mobil 1 is much better, I might get it anyway. The only one I think I'd consider would be 0W-20 EP, but i'm open to suggestions. I was thinking about PP 0W-20, 5W-20, or 5W-30, or PUP at same grades. I looked at the PDSs, and it seems like the PUP 0W-20 and 5W-30 have flashpoints ~225C, while the others are ~205C. So, would that possibly mean lower Noack?, 'better' in general terms? I was thinking about PUP 5W-30 or maybe the same grade of PP. Would this be a bad choice? Would the PUP be worth the extra $5 over the PP? My thinking for using 5W-30 was that a slightly higher HTHS won't hurt, and might help, and hopefully the KV40 and KV100 differences won't matter much, if at all. The PP 5W-30 is very close to the 0W-20 upper limits for KV. The PUP version is not far from that. I'd like to choose whatever is best for engine life. What do you think? PP 5W-30: Some specs: SN+, GF-5, A1/B1, A5/B5, HTO-06, dexos1g2 KV40: 53.9 KV100: 9.8 VI: 170 CCS: [email protected] Pour Point: -48C Flash Point (D93): 207C PUP 5W-30: Some specs: SN, GF-5, A1/B1-12, A5/B5-12, HTO-06, dexos1 KV40: 56.3 KV100: 10.3 VI: 173 CCS: [email protected] Pour Point: -48C Flash Point (D93): 224C Mobil1 0W-20 EP: Some specs: SN, GF-5, CF, dexos1 KV40: 44.9 KV100: 8.6 HTHS: 2.7 SA: 0.8% VI: 173 Pour Point: -54C Flash Point (D92): 235C Thanks.

 

[atikovi]

Stick with 0W20. Honda engineers know more than you do about what oil is best and which grade maximizes mileage. Many of these cars with over 300 or 400,000 miles using that grade. Having had over 30 of these cars, that is what I use. Some are even trying 0W16 for a slight gain in economy. And join http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/

 

[mattwithcats]

Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy in 0W-20, with a Wix XP 51356... Good flowing filter, with oil that saves petrol...

 

[addyguy]

Agreed, AFE 0W-20 would be great in this application. ...that said, any 0W-20 would be fine.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted by atikovi

... Many of these cars with over 300 or 400,000 miles using that grade. Having had over 30 of these cars, ...

[off-topic] Come one, give us some good stories. Pretty please.

 

[mikecz]

I doubt the engineers got the final say in what was written in the manual. There has been much discussion on these forums about the 0W-20 spec. in North American Owners Manuals, CAFE, etc. I am not interested as much in fuel economy, as I am in engine life, like I said. I heard of a Prius taxi going 600k+ km in Winnipeg. We have a Prius that had Toyota 0W-20 exclusively for ~200k km, and it started burning oil (at ~300k km). It was mostly highway kilometres. The EGR system also became problematic. We now run 5W-30 and 0W-30 in it, and it burns much less. Also, for PP vs PUP, is PUP worth it in general, and specifically in the 0W-20, 5W-20, and 5W-30 grades, over PP? Does HTHS not matter??

 

[Imp4]

Originally Posted by atikovi

Stick with 0W20. Honda engineers know more than you do about what oil is best and which grade maximizes mileage

Originally Posted by mikecz

I doubt the engineers got the final say in what was written in the manual. ....We have a Prius that had Toyota 0W-20 exclusively for ~200k km, and it started burning oil (at ~300k km). It was mostly highway kilometres. The EGR system also became problematic. We now run 5W-30 and 0W-30 in it, and it burns much less.

Well it's seems like OP already made up his mind... Why ask here?

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by Imp4

Originally Posted by atikovi

Stick with 0W20. Honda engineers know more than you do about what oil is best and which grade maximizes mileage

Originally Posted by mikecz

I doubt the engineers got the final say in what was written in the manual. ....We have a Prius that had Toyota 0W-20 exclusively for ~200k km, and it started burning oil (at ~300k km). It was mostly highway kilometres. The EGR system also became problematic. We now run 5W-30 and 0W-30 in it, and it burns much less.

Well it's seems like OP already made up his mind... Why ask here?

Exactly. Recycle.

 

[atikovi]

Originally Posted by pandus13

Originally Posted by atikovi

... Many of these cars with over 300 or 400,000 miles using that grade. Having had over 30 of these cars, ...

[off-topic] Come one, give us some good stories. Pretty please.

Well, I'd guess it would be back in 2001 when I bought five of these at once. The Insight first came out in 2000 and as the first hybrid in North America, nobody knew anything about them. I was at a dealer auction in Virginia where Honda Finance was selling repos plus some lemon law buyback cars. Most normal dealers back then didn't want to touch anything with new and unknown technology or with branded titles so it was a double negative for these Insights. I took a chance purely based on the numbers. They were only bid up to around $3,000 under the wholesale book values. Seemed too good a deal to pass up. Ended up buying all five that they had. I haven't bought that many cars before, or since, in one day. Put them on Ebay a week or two apart and averaged over $4,000 profit per car with just detailing them. That maybe happens once every two or three years now, that you make that much on one car, so it was a huge amount to make on five cars 18 years ago. These days it's a lot more work to sell them. Chances are the Insight being sold at an auction has a bad battery to that's $1500-$2000 right off and kills much of the profit potential even if you buy it for next to nothing.

 

[mikecz]

OP hasn't made up his mind, that's why he's here, 'bothering'. ... doesn't understand the reasoning behind 0W-20, other than fuel efficiency, and if that's the only reason behind it, would rather pick something that favours longevity; also, is a bit wary of running the not 'preferred' 5W-20 or even light 5W-30 in this engine, unsure about any possible potential problems it might cause in the long term; has some positive experience with 5W-30 in a 0W-20 specced Prius, but that's a different engine, and a different engine maker; would rather stick with PP, or perhaps PUP if it's worth it, unless there is some real good reason to use Mobil 1 instead; thought some people might be able to help with hashing it out (or perhaps, rehashing); is not trying to ruffle any feathers. P.S. is on insightcentral already.