The VW's needed frequent rebuilds due to rapid oil breakdown resulting from air cooling, not the lack of a canister-type oil filter.
Oil fitlers really aren't needed!!!!
- Thread starter msparks
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It is probably worth spending extra on a filter just to get a silicone ADBV. There are many reports of the Nitrile ones becoming warped and brittle.
My stovebolt 6 in my '57 Chevy had the canister oil filter as a factory option. I think it was around $3 and bolted right on to the intake manifold with some u clamps. Then hoses went to the block. One cold winter one of the hoses started leaking and I could only find a hose the had the thread on it that matched the block on both sides. So I bypassed the filter for a few months. I noticed the engine ran alot quieter, figured due to the flow. Later on when I replaced the hoses, looked in the canister and there was a little pin hole for the oil to come out in the stem. I promptly drilled it out a bit and the engine stayed nice and quiet. Yup - simpler times.. kinda miss them. JR
Well, as Chris142 pointed out, back when VW actually built reliable, long-lived motors (the rear-engined beetles) there was no oil filter and the engines generally ran until the owner tired of the car or it was wrecked. I believe the continued presence of a filter on modern gasoline engines is a throwback people expect to see and a final barrier to an unlikely but possible catastrophic debris event. In other words the presence of a filter can't hurt, but is nothing to obsess over - ergo, the ever-shrinking oil filter. So, Filter guy, in answer to your rhetorical question, the handwriting's already on the wall. (In the meantime, though, I'll continue to dutifully install a fresh Champion Labs filter on my ride every oil change.
Oh..it can be done. No oil filter.
But as with the old VW...how many shops specialized in rebuilding the engines..
The problem today is OBDII and what the evolution of engines since then has entailed.
But as with the old VW...how many shops specialized in rebuilding the engines..
The problem today is OBDII and what the evolution of engines since then has entailed.
I couldn't agree more: oil fitlers are NOT needed.
There's an interesting post in the aviation section about a round cam and a filter full of metal. I also posted pics of a filter that saved my bikes engine.
Cheers, Steve
Cheers, Steve
Yep. They produced color televisions in the 50's, put men on the moon in the 60's, and started the internet in the 70's, but it took humankind until the 3rd millennium to figure out how to make filter media.
Another smart hind-end reply.quote:
Originally posted by 427Z06:
Yep. They produced color televisions in the 50's, put men on the moon in the 60's, and started the internet in the 70's, but it took humankind until the 3rd millennium to figure out how to make filter media.
I'll let you explain the difference between the engines of the 55 Corvette, the 65 Corvette, the 75 Corvette, the 85 Corvette, the 95 Corvette, and the 2005 Corvette..
You'd use the same filter on all them wouldn't you...
It is clear that media has evolved. Just ten years ago your choices for a pool filter would be diatomaceous earth or a sand filter. Now, nobody uses anything but a cartridge filter for a pool. That is due to the newer media technology.
Do you mean to say that if I went out and bought Fram filters for each of these Corvettes and cut them open, I would find a different spec media matterial in each one?quote:
Originally posted by Filter guy:
I'll let you explain the difference between the engines of the 55 Corvette, the 65 Corvette, the 75 Corvette, the 85 Corvette, the 95 Corvette, and the 2005 Corvette..
You'd use the same filter on all them wouldn't you.....Yes indeedy engines and media haven't evolved.[/QB]
The quality of my reply usually correlates with the quality of the associated quoted text. Looks like kindergarten level was overkill here.
Easy...I've owned every version of that engine except the ZR-x DOHC engines. The original 265-CID in 1955 did not have a provision for an oil filter. From 1956 through 1967 all small-block Chevrolets used a cannister-style oil filter which used a cartridge filter. From 1968 on all small-block Chevrolets used a spin on filter. All the spin on filters were basically the same except for variations in thread sizes and gasket dimensions. Notable exception is the dink filter they started putting on the LS-series of engines in '96...which by the way was used on some GM engines in the mid-70s.
No...I'm a little bit smarter than a filter salesman.quote:
Originally posted by Filter guy:
You'd use the same filter on all them wouldn't you.....Yes indeedy engines and media haven't evolved.
And, by the way, my '89 Supra specs one of those dinky filters for 10K miles/1 year intervals so to say that post 1990s media is the reason filters are smaller today is just more bull-hockey from you.
[ May 11, 2005, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
Oooohhhh god i'm glad you're smarter than a simple ol' filter salesman.
So you're saying the horsepower the engine puts out has stayed the same in all those models, 50's , 60's etc?
You're saying the cooling system has stayed the same?
You're saying the same oil formulations have stayed the same?
But even at that..the filtration specs haven't changed since GM first introduced them for the Corvette? So you're saying the filter specs have stayed the same since '56?
Then why does Corvette use a totally synthetic element now? Why not the straight paper media from 1956?
And just how does the original cartridge element stack up to today's GM media used at the factory?
And why didn't GM use silicon gaskets back in the 50's, 60's etc?
Have the filter elements always remained the same size for every model year Corvette? If not, why not? How can they do the same job? How can they meet the "never" changing specs?
You're simple filter saleman needs to be educated. I await your indepth responce without any..
So you're saying the horsepower the engine puts out has stayed the same in all those models, 50's , 60's etc?
You're saying the cooling system has stayed the same?
You're saying the same oil formulations have stayed the same?
But even at that..the filtration specs haven't changed since GM first introduced them for the Corvette? So you're saying the filter specs have stayed the same since '56?
Then why does Corvette use a totally synthetic element now? Why not the straight paper media from 1956?
And just how does the original cartridge element stack up to today's GM media used at the factory?
And why didn't GM use silicon gaskets back in the 50's, 60's etc?
Have the filter elements always remained the same size for every model year Corvette? If not, why not? How can they do the same job? How can they meet the "never" changing specs?
You're simple filter saleman needs to be educated. I await your indepth responce without any..
OK.quote:
Originally posted by msparks:
Well folks I've come to the conclusion that the oil filter is really not a necessary ingrediate to long engine life. It's also really not that big of a concern.
I bet you wonder why I came up with this theory?
Becuase the oil filter on my 2005 Nissan Frontier is about the size of a large thimble. Really. I can't see how the factory manual can recommended a 7500 mile oil/filter change with something that small.
So since I'm not a high falluting engineer that designs engines and so forth I must not know squat.
You already know everything so you're not educable.quote:
Originally posted by Filter guy:
You're simple filter saleman needs to be educated. I await your indepth responce without any..
Well i'll agree I may be a moron.
And i'm pedant at times.
But your the one who questions and
Yet you have nothing to support your claim they haven't other than
Now i've tried to bring it home to you over the Corvette. As you own one..maybe more.
I think it is reasonable to assume that the GM engineers for engine developement have changed many things over time. It is not reasonable to assume that one of those things is the specs for the filter itself.
A; I don't have the specs as I don't work for Champ anymore. So I can't share them.
B: The straight paper media of the 50's and 60's started to evolve in the 70's. The last 10 years has seen oil filter media continue to develope at a rapid pace. Hence the ever changing claims by all filter companies about their products they offer.
Have you NOT noticed the ever increasing efficiencies they tout?
Would you think a filter from a 65 or 75 Vette would work on todays Vette spec wise? ( provided you stored one in a vacuum vault all these years)
Maybe you only worry about Vettes. Fair enough. But I bet you get real involved with your filter choice and have paid attention to which media/performance is best for your vehicle.
The Mobil 1 filter Champ builds has changed internally since it was first offered. I would wager so has Pure One.
Yet you want to claim that medias haven't evolved.
When asked to provide evidence to back up your
I may be a moron, but at least I have a leg to stand on.
If you don't appreciate what I have to add to this forum, don't read my posts. After all this is a discussion thread where idea's and knowledge is shared. It is up to the reader to determine for themselves what they think is believable or plausible.
I try to treat people with respect and don't go around calling someone a moron regardless of if I disagree with them. Something you might consider. Just a thought...
Anytime you want a plant tour and engineering tour, just let me know. I think you'll come away with a different perspective.
I don't find it that difficult to believe that the FL-1A that I buy in 2005 has better media than the FL-1A that was available in 1988.
Well, as a matter of fact, a current production filter for a 65,75,85,95 or 2005 would do a good job an any of them with a little adaption so they would fit.quote:
Originally posted by Filter guy:
I'll let you explain the difference between the engines of the 55 Corvette, the 65 Corvette, the 75 Corvette, the 85 Corvette, the 95 Corvette, and the 2005 Corvette..
You'd use the same filter on all them wouldn't you.....Yes indeedy engines and media haven't evolved.
Patman
Staff member
This thread has strayed off track, time to stick a fork in it.
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