Oil Filter Pics (Draw your own conclusions)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Thank you for checking into it.

One has to wonder where the Parker ADBVs are made. I would think it would be cheaper to ship assembled filters to North America but the USA ones have the same internals as the German ones? hmmm
smile.gif


Cheers, Steve
 
lubeowner.

Never thought you were "dissing" Champ..just trying to point out who for or what Champ builds.

As someone who was on the Filter Manufacturers Council technical committee...what you have seen with the two PH400, can you answer what model year car they were used on?

My guess was older Ford Tauruses??? Have you routinely serviced these cars? Or were these new customers.

Generally..pleated paper media and "blended" media will have Phenolic resins in them from the paper supplier. The media is sent though oven(s) during the building of the filter to "cure" the resins in the media. This gives the media extra structural strenght to withstand the flow of oil and not rip or tear as you've described.

Sometime pre-cured media is used. If you cut open a new filter the media will be very light in color. If it is tan to darker tan..then the resins were cured in an oven.
 
so whats left ?

Wix and purolater

wix seems only in "independant auto store" not advance or autozone or walmart kmart.
and twice the price of purolater

what to buy in a 'common" filter thats not ecore or fram?
 
There are many people here upset with the very small filters used on many newer engines. Have you cut any of them open to see how much filter area they actually have? My limited experience is that what they leave out is the empty space.
 
Great pictures thanks! Sure goes to show you need to change the oil and filter regularly! (20,000 miles
shocked.gif
)
Here is just something I noticed when cutting open filters used on a '03 Duramax diesel.
@ 9,200 miles the filter media was real dirty so much so that I decided if I were to stick with 9K oil changes I will change just the filter 1/2 way through. It looked like @ 9K it was probably to the point where it reduced the oil flow through the filter too much. When I cut open filters in the 5-6K range they were dirty but looked like it was not restricted enough to cut back significantly on the oil flow. The lab results on th 9,200 oil was very good. TBN still way high and wear metals within spec. but for me the iron and lead seemed high. For me I decided to go with 6-7K oil & filter changes.

[ March 06, 2005, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: johnnyo4 ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by ChrisW:

quote:

Originally posted by jthorner:

quote:

I carry the Mann, Hengst, Mahle filters for European car customers

Recently I have seen some amazingly agressive Mann and Mahle filter prices (in a retail context) recently on RockAuto.com. You might want to find out what source they are buying from to see if you can save some money for your shop.

John


Shipping is what kills it for me. Lately rockauto has been stacking shipping charges for each item you buy. Great service no doubt, and decent prices, but it shouldn't cost $5 to ship a gasket for a thermostat, for example, and then $8 for two, $10 for three etc.

My dad's audi uses the Mann W930/21 filters, a superbly built filter.


Here's a Rockauto discount code.
Not much but something.

193097121154

Good for 5% off until May 3, 2005.
 
Filter guy,

You are exactly right about the Ford application.
One was on an older Taurus, the other came off an older Windstar with the 3.8L. Is there something in the engine causing this? It was really weird, the filter pleat was split to to bottom in the crevice part of the pleat. They both were in the exact same place though, where the media was very unevenly spaced around the center tube.

Someone asked about the small filters on the newer cars. The biggest thing I have noticed is that the oil gets very black and dirty once you go past 4-5K. I also notice lots of sludge buildup in the Toyota's and Nissan's with the tiny filters. Maybe they ae getting clogged enough that they are by-passing. Lots of my customers drive in real dusty dirty conditions and that doesn't help.I just cant gigure out why GM is using one of the smallest oil filters available on their V8 engines now, just doesn't make sense.
 
Well there are a couple issues to deal with.

First is, most who post in here are more meticulous in their oil change intervals and what filters they use. Which is why pics from filters taken off their cars don't show the media tearing.

So any brand of filter will work for those motor heads in here.
grin.gif


Second is the small filter issue with newer engines. I've mentioned this before but i'll repeat it again.

People are thinking 70-80's about filters, when all the oil filters were the larger size. That was because the media's needed to have certain dirt holding capacities. With developement of medias the last 10 years or so by inducing synthetic fibers and controlling the pores in the pleats better...this has allowed for similar dirt holding capacities with less media needed.

So the smaller filter design today has just as much capacity of a PH8A from the 80's.

The key to this is that the engine companies didn't reduce their oil change interval just because some of their OEM oil filters are smaller did they? In some cases they went longer drain intervals ( 3,000 is now 5,000).

Third... what people are reacting to in this thread is probably not what goes with their filter. Again, because of the meticulous oil drain intervals used by posters in here and probably better oils.

What the pics in this thread are..are from older engines, probably not maintained well in both the oil and air filter ( more dirt in the engine oil). Which adds to sludge in the pan from extending the oil drain to long.

So when the owner, finally, changes oil after running to long..there can be the results seen in these pictures. It is generally caused by sludgy oil and running the filter to long. The sludgy oil impacts the fresh oil. The fresh oil pics up the sludge and takes it to the filter. The filter does it's job and stops the sludge and contaminant from going any further. To a point. That point being the filter plugging. As it reaches this point at some point the oil pressure (probably at cold start) rips the pleats because the relief valve can't react quick enough to allow the unfiltered oil downstream. Or the relief valve is stuck closed due to some sludge. So the oil "finds" a way through the media.

What owners of these type vehicles should do is put a cleaner in their engine. Drop the pan and clean everything down there. (I bet their oil pan screen is something to see as well.) And follow basic maintenance procedures on oil and air filter changes in the future. Or risk the same thing happening on their next filter regardless of brand. But as long as the engine is still running, what do they know or care..
rolleyes.gif


Everyone else in here can chill about their own filter...
wink.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by edwardh1:
so whats left ?

Wix and purolater

wix seems only in "independant auto store" not advance or autozone or walmart kmart.
and twice the price of purolater

what to buy in a 'common" filter thats not ecore or fram?


If you have any O'Reilly auto parts stores nearby they also carry Wix filters at a good price. NAPA Gold filters are Wix filters with a their label on it, available at NAPA parts stores.

There is also Baldwin, Fleetguard, Donaldson if you have any suppliers nearby that cater to truckers or you can all of the above them online.

IMHO, I'd use the Purolator, Wix or another quality brand until enough guinea pigs beta test the Ecore filters in the field.
 
quote:

Originally posted by lubeowner:
BTW,

Disected two Ph400 Champion(skinny Ford filter) today, both of them were torn from top to bottom in the EXACT same place. It was where the paper was "stretched" in an area where the pleats were unevenly spaced. It seems to me that uneven filter spacing causes the paper to become brittle and weak in that spot. It probably flexes with oil pump pulsations and tears through like when bending soft metal over and over, it eventually breaks. These were NOT E-core they were older filters and 5000 ODI the other 7000 ODI. Scary.


lubeowner, can you tell what kind of bypass valves were on these filters? Closed end, open end, clicker type or coil spring type?
 
quote:

Originally posted by Filter guy:
Second is the small filter issue with newer engines. I've mentioned this before but i'll repeat it again.

People are thinking 70-80's about filters, when all the oil filters were the larger size. That was because the media's needed to have certain dirt holding capacities. With developement of medias the last 10 years or so by inducing synthetic fibers and controlling the pores in the pleats better...this has allowed for similar dirt holding capacities with less media needed.

So the smaller filter design today has just as much capacity of a PH8A from the 80's.


This sounds like a nice faerie tale put together by a bunch of nimrods that make up an advocacy organization like The Filter Council. I put them in the same league that I would a used car salesman telling my grandmother that the Yugo is a reliable car because he drives one. Tests here already provide evidence that there is a great difference in the characteristics of filters for a specific application. If an organization like The Filter Council had any credibility, they would design a realistic and standardized test and publish the results. Instead, they claim everything is fine and all the consumer is left with in the purchase decision is the price and Madison Avenue marketing. While it seems like there is several corporations that are willing to provide a good product at a fair price, unfortunately, it seems like some corporations are being lured to the dark side and are willing to produce products of inferior quality to maximize profits.

All this talk of complex engineering going into the design of filters is getting kinda' old quite frankly. We're talking about some filter paper, stamp steel, spring steel, injection molded plastic, rubber seals and some glue, which when assembled, the characteristics are easily quantifiable. This is NOT rocket science. Well, maybe for some people it is.
rolleyes.gif
 
I don't have any easy way to judge the quality of filter media, but it is hard for me to believe that it is all the same. Still, as long as i have my hack saw and tape measure, I will go for the most area.

Lubeowner, are you seeing many of the new Ecore filters yet? Also, how do the canister filter elements look when they come out?
 
Veteran,

Sorry for the ignorance(new to this board) but are you referring to the "clicker type" of filters as the ones with holes in the bottom end cap supported by the leaf spring. Most of Champions Ford filters use this type with 5 holes in the end cap with the leaf spring pressing on to it.

We have had E-cores for a while now and have just started to cut a few open. I will say that the end caps peel off very easily, even when new. Did find one used one that the element had pulled away from the end cap in one small spot though.
 
427Z06..you're entitled to your opinion how ever misguided it is.

Things may move slowly in the engine oil filtration world for you, it may not be rocket science, but making quality products that meet or exceed engine manufacturers specs is a bit more than the sum of the component parts.

The developement of medias has in fact been a highly technical advancement into pore size control in order to make filters more efficient and not lose filter life ( lower dirt holding capcity). It is not just toss more synthetic fibers into celullose media and that's all there is to it.

As your handle is a nice Corvette, I bet you'd just as soon use a filter designed and manufactured to the specs from the 1960's as opposed to what GM has determined it needs for the current vehicles.

Champ also suplies Mercury Marine, worked with GM and Mercury for the ZR engine because Mercury Marine is the leader in ceramic technology which was used in the ZR1 engine. Maybe you should tell GM not to look into new technology and go back to the old pushrod design and Holly carbs.

Naturally you'd rather have the old 60's filter. as there really isn't that much difference. Then why use a Pure One? As it ain't rocket science.
tongue.gif
 
Mercury marine is not a good reference for quality
their oil filters flow a lot but do not filter much (check the tests)
and their 4 cyl sterndrive they sell you today is the same old 65 Cevy II motor except with electronic ignition. Not much progress there (Camry 4 cyls have a balance shaft and are VERY smooth) - Mercruiser 4 cyl runs rough with harmonice at mid range
 
quote:

Originally posted by edwardh1:
Mercury marine is not a good reference for quality
their oil filters flow a lot but do not filter much (check the tests)
and their 4 cyl sterndrive they sell you today is the same old 65 Cevy II motor except with electronic ignition. Not much progress there (Camry 4 cyls have a balance shaft and are VERY smooth) - Mercruiser 4 cyl runs rough with harmonice at mid range


A company only builds OEM wise what the OEM wants.
tongue.gif


GM was the key to the Vette filter..not Mercury Marine.
 
Lubeowner,
Thanks for the great information.
I have a '96 Windstar 3.8L. This engine is prone to leakage of coolant into the oil. I do not know if that would contribute to what you saw.....particularly with an extended OCI.

I have been lucky so far at 147K miles.
I used the Fram X2 filter (almost $10 at Walmart) for a long time....with M1 5W-30 oil, at a OCI of 3K miles.....
I am now using the Wix filter....
I would be interested in what you have seen with them.

As many have stated, with the care most people here give their cars....at least with respect to oil....FEW of us would see what you show in the pics.
HOWEVER, many of us do what we do....to give us an added level of protection, should things go a-miss with our cars.
Which is why I am very interested in actual information like you have posted.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top