My oil filter mounts in the vertical position on my '08 CR-V. Does this remove the oil drainback issue? What does the anti drainback valve do exactly? Thanks
Oil filter mounts vertically- ADBV ?
- Thread starter Jeepster_nut
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On a vertical mounted filter, there is no need for a ADBV. The ADBV is to help oil stay in the filter on those not vertically mounted. With the filter full, it helps build oil pressure faster.
So does it not matter the quality of oil filter I use? Some have plastic ADBV and other Silicone, correct? It is a waste of money to buy the "best" oil filter when a basic (Fram for example) will do? Thanks
Originally Posted By: Jeepster_nut
So does it not matter the quality of oil filter I use? Some have plastic ADBV and other Silicone, correct? It is a waste of money to buy the "best" oil filter when a basic (Fram for example) will do? Thanks
What is the connection between filter quality and whether or not you need an ADBV?
I would still buy a good quality filter, which are often times equal to, or less than, the price of a cheaply made filter.
So does it not matter the quality of oil filter I use? Some have plastic ADBV and other Silicone, correct? It is a waste of money to buy the "best" oil filter when a basic (Fram for example) will do? Thanks
What is the connection between filter quality and whether or not you need an ADBV?
I would still buy a good quality filter, which are often times equal to, or less than, the price of a cheaply made filter.
There are other issues with Fram filters besides just ADBV. At least where I live, I can get a SuperTech filter cheaper than a Fram filter and the SuperTech is a better filter from what I've read.
Does the supertech have a silicone or plastic ADBV?
I am trying to get away from the BITOG way of doing things with my cars, as most of it is overkill. No offense to anyone on BITOG of course. Just trying to simplify things and spend less time worrying about stuff that just doesn't matter at the end of the day.
I am trying to get away from the BITOG way of doing things with my cars, as most of it is overkill. No offense to anyone on BITOG of course. Just trying to simplify things and spend less time worrying about stuff that just doesn't matter at the end of the day.
I disagree that an ADBV is not necessary on this type of application. A good ADBV will still keep the oiling system of the engine primed with oil for the next cold start. Without an ADBV, the oil in the galleries above the filter will flow back down (through the filter) into the oil pan, often creating startup noise.
Regardless of the filter's orientation, it's my experience that a quality ADBV, if that mechanism is not provided by the filter mount as in some GMs, is advantageous.
Regardless of the filter's orientation, it's my experience that a quality ADBV, if that mechanism is not provided by the filter mount as in some GMs, is advantageous.
If it doesn't matter at the end of the day why would you care if it has a nitrile or silicone ADBV? The ST has a nitrile ADBV. Go to AAP and get Purolator 1's. The have the Silicone ADBV and the are $5 + 20% off with code P20 at checkout ONLINE. Then just pick up the filters at the store. Much better quality.
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
If it doesn't matter at the end of the day why would you care if it has a nitrile or silicone ADBV? The ST has a nitrile ADBV. Go to AAP and get Purolator 1's. The have the Silicone ADBV and the are $5 + 20% off with code P20 at checkout ONLINE. Then just pick up the filters at the store. Much better quality.
I am trying to just find the cheapest filter that will work for my car without having to worry if my car actually needs a filter with a silicone ADBV. I dropped the PP and went to conventional valvoline, now just gotta find a filter.
Funny, before the internet and BITOG I had a 1986 Nissan P/U 4x2 5 speed with the Z24 8 spark plug 4 cylinder motor that I took to 275k miles using conventional castrol GTX and Frams. The rest of the truck was beat, but not that motor. I gotta get back to that way of doing things lol
If it doesn't matter at the end of the day why would you care if it has a nitrile or silicone ADBV? The ST has a nitrile ADBV. Go to AAP and get Purolator 1's. The have the Silicone ADBV and the are $5 + 20% off with code P20 at checkout ONLINE. Then just pick up the filters at the store. Much better quality.
I am trying to just find the cheapest filter that will work for my car without having to worry if my car actually needs a filter with a silicone ADBV. I dropped the PP and went to conventional valvoline, now just gotta find a filter.
Funny, before the internet and BITOG I had a 1986 Nissan P/U 4x2 5 speed with the Z24 8 spark plug 4 cylinder motor that I took to 275k miles using conventional castrol GTX and Frams. The rest of the truck was beat, but not that motor. I gotta get back to that way of doing things lol
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I disagree that an ADBV is not necessary on this type of application. A good ADBV will still keep the oiling system of the engine primed with oil for the next cold start. Without an ADBV, the oil in the galleries above the filter will flow back down (through the filter) into the oil pan, often creating startup noise.
Regardless of the filter's orientation, it's my experience that a quality ADBV, if that mechanism is not provided by the filter mount as in some GMs, is advantageous.
This is true.
Quote from AC Delco
Quote:
In addition to excellent filter capacity, efficiency, flow management and durability, ACDelco oil filters provide:
· Tight seals that prevent unfiltered oil from entering the engine
· Anti-drainback valves that retain oil in the filter to help reduce prime-times and quickly lubricate the engine during start-up
· By-pass valves that help keep the engine from becoming oil-starved during cold weather starts
· Filtration media with more paper pleats than other popular aftermarket filters to provide more capacity
I disagree that an ADBV is not necessary on this type of application. A good ADBV will still keep the oiling system of the engine primed with oil for the next cold start. Without an ADBV, the oil in the galleries above the filter will flow back down (through the filter) into the oil pan, often creating startup noise.
Regardless of the filter's orientation, it's my experience that a quality ADBV, if that mechanism is not provided by the filter mount as in some GMs, is advantageous.
This is true.
Quote from AC Delco
Quote:
In addition to excellent filter capacity, efficiency, flow management and durability, ACDelco oil filters provide:
· Tight seals that prevent unfiltered oil from entering the engine
· Anti-drainback valves that retain oil in the filter to help reduce prime-times and quickly lubricate the engine during start-up
· By-pass valves that help keep the engine from becoming oil-starved during cold weather starts
· Filtration media with more paper pleats than other popular aftermarket filters to provide more capacity
I'm pretty sure that one option for that vehicle is the SuperTech ST7317, which is a solid, non-Ecore, Champ Labs filter. It does have a nitrile ADBV, but I have heard no complaints about its quality. Probably a fine filter for normal OCIs. Should cost you less than $3 at WM.
The ST7317 should be the correct filter, and should be fine for most OCIs. It's interesting to note that the OEM filter does use a silicone ADBV, so Honda must think it's needed enough to not only specify one, but specify one made of a premium material.
Originally Posted By: Jeepster_nut
Funny, before the internet and BITOG I had a 1986 Nissan P/U 4x2 5 speed with the Z24 8 spark plug 4 cylinder motor that I took to 275k miles using conventional castrol GTX and Frams. The rest of the truck was beat, but not that motor. I gotta get back to that way of doing things lol
Yes, but those Nissans were excellent. I had one. Other engines will require more care.
On my VW, for example, I used a FRAM that came in a package deal (buy the oil, get the filter free). Once the FRAM was on the car, I got startup knock in the morning, every morning, for 5 to 10 seconds. This went on for several weeks, when I swapped the FRAM filter for another brand. NO MORE KNOCK! Same oil, no more startup knock in the morning. It doesn't get any more plain than that.
Keep in mind that a GOOD filter is the same price, or maybe less, than the FRAM and you're left with no reason to use the FRAM.
Funny, before the internet and BITOG I had a 1986 Nissan P/U 4x2 5 speed with the Z24 8 spark plug 4 cylinder motor that I took to 275k miles using conventional castrol GTX and Frams. The rest of the truck was beat, but not that motor. I gotta get back to that way of doing things lol
Yes, but those Nissans were excellent. I had one. Other engines will require more care.
On my VW, for example, I used a FRAM that came in a package deal (buy the oil, get the filter free). Once the FRAM was on the car, I got startup knock in the morning, every morning, for 5 to 10 seconds. This went on for several weeks, when I swapped the FRAM filter for another brand. NO MORE KNOCK! Same oil, no more startup knock in the morning. It doesn't get any more plain than that.
Keep in mind that a GOOD filter is the same price, or maybe less, than the FRAM and you're left with no reason to use the FRAM.
I'm running the Fram extra guard that came with the valvoline oil from Auto Zone. It was a sale special they have running. The oil light goes out during cranking to start which is good. I will leave both in for 5k miles and probably stay with the valvoline but switch to a purolator white can.
You will be much better off with that Puro Classic than that Fram. I would be worried about more than the ADBV with a filter. Remember the filters job is to FILTER!, so you want a good one that will do its intended job and then some.
I ended up going on AA and getting the Pure One PL14610 for $4 apiece after the discount code and the online sale price. Went and picked up 3 at the local store. Good price right there!
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I disagree that an ADBV is not necessary on this type of application. A good ADBV will still keep the oiling system of the engine primed with oil for the next cold start. Without an ADBV, the oil in the galleries above the filter will flow back down (through the filter) into the oil pan, often creating startup noise.
Regardless of the filter's orientation, it's my experience that a quality ADBV, if that mechanism is not provided by the filter mount as in some GMs, is advantageous.
We've been through this before. It's certainly possible that there are some situations where this oil above the filter situation might be true, but I'm far from convinced.
My Audi's OEM filters, which I use regularly, have no ADBV. The filter is mounted vertically, thread side up. The filter is nowhere near the lowest point in the oil circuit. Not only is the filter full when I take it off (it would have to be full, since gravity still works), there is plenty of oil above the filter that comes streaming out when I take the filter off. Again, there is no ADBV.
That was also my experience in changing oil hundreds of times in small block Chevs. Those engines had a filter in the same orientation, and no ADBV was specified for that application. The Wix filters of the day had no ADBV for that application, and that's all I ever used.
Currently, however, the Wix 51393, which cross references to the Audi's Mann, Mahle, and Bosch filters, does have a silicone ADBV. The German filters do not. The old Wix Chevy small block filter had no ADBV. The current one very well may.
As I mentioned in another thread, while the Motorcraft FL1A has a nitrile ADBV, the obsolete CFL1 (same applications but cheaper, the FL1A was advertised as a longer life filter at the time) had no ADBV. Many of the applications that specified either filter would have benefited from an ADBV.
Originally Posted By: Mike_dup1
Quote from AC Delco...
· Anti-drainback valves that retain oil in the filter to help reduce prime-times and quickly lubricate the engine during start-up
This is the whole point. If the filter is mounted thread side up, the oil isn't going to go anywhere unless someone pokes a hole in it or the car is parked upside down. My old LTD with sideways mounted filter used to tick like mad at startup unless I had a filter with an ADBV, and such filters were a lot less common at the time. Finding a filter without one these days is more of a chore than tracking down one with the ADBV.
I disagree that an ADBV is not necessary on this type of application. A good ADBV will still keep the oiling system of the engine primed with oil for the next cold start. Without an ADBV, the oil in the galleries above the filter will flow back down (through the filter) into the oil pan, often creating startup noise.
Regardless of the filter's orientation, it's my experience that a quality ADBV, if that mechanism is not provided by the filter mount as in some GMs, is advantageous.
We've been through this before. It's certainly possible that there are some situations where this oil above the filter situation might be true, but I'm far from convinced.
My Audi's OEM filters, which I use regularly, have no ADBV. The filter is mounted vertically, thread side up. The filter is nowhere near the lowest point in the oil circuit. Not only is the filter full when I take it off (it would have to be full, since gravity still works), there is plenty of oil above the filter that comes streaming out when I take the filter off. Again, there is no ADBV.
That was also my experience in changing oil hundreds of times in small block Chevs. Those engines had a filter in the same orientation, and no ADBV was specified for that application. The Wix filters of the day had no ADBV for that application, and that's all I ever used.
Currently, however, the Wix 51393, which cross references to the Audi's Mann, Mahle, and Bosch filters, does have a silicone ADBV. The German filters do not. The old Wix Chevy small block filter had no ADBV. The current one very well may.
As I mentioned in another thread, while the Motorcraft FL1A has a nitrile ADBV, the obsolete CFL1 (same applications but cheaper, the FL1A was advertised as a longer life filter at the time) had no ADBV. Many of the applications that specified either filter would have benefited from an ADBV.
Originally Posted By: Mike_dup1
Quote from AC Delco...
· Anti-drainback valves that retain oil in the filter to help reduce prime-times and quickly lubricate the engine during start-up
This is the whole point. If the filter is mounted thread side up, the oil isn't going to go anywhere unless someone pokes a hole in it or the car is parked upside down. My old LTD with sideways mounted filter used to tick like mad at startup unless I had a filter with an ADBV, and such filters were a lot less common at the time. Finding a filter without one these days is more of a chore than tracking down one with the ADBV.
I find oil above the vertical filter every time, not sometimes, and quite a lot.
It has been awhile since I had my 71 Chev small block, but I do believe the bypass valve, which is removable and right under the filter, as far as I remember, MAY also have been the adbv in some models. I know there are aftermarket oil filter adapters sold which convert the SB GM engines to filter bypass. They cost like $12. Over the years people do wrong things like take out the bypass valve, put an adapter on, and then still use by a non bypass filter later on, or the next owner does. When their media blows holes through it they wonder why, and sometimes post pictures on forums saying this or that filter is no good.
It has been awhile since I had my 71 Chev small block, but I do believe the bypass valve, which is removable and right under the filter, as far as I remember, MAY also have been the adbv in some models. I know there are aftermarket oil filter adapters sold which convert the SB GM engines to filter bypass. They cost like $12. Over the years people do wrong things like take out the bypass valve, put an adapter on, and then still use by a non bypass filter later on, or the next owner does. When their media blows holes through it they wonder why, and sometimes post pictures on forums saying this or that filter is no good.
Originally Posted By: Garak
We've been through this before. It's certainly possible that there are some situations where this oil above the filter situation might be true, but I'm far from convinced.
It makes a difference in Chrysler's V-6 engines anyway. Some engines may not be as sensitive to it, sure. The phenomenon may exist in some engines and not others.
Originally Posted By: Garak
If the filter is mounted thread side up, the oil isn't going to go anywhere unless someone pokes a hole in it or the car is parked upside down.
I agree and disagree. With the head pressure above the filter, and with no or a malfunctioning ADBV, oil can push back through and into the pan. The filter may still be full, but there may be no oil above it. It's apparent that something in your Audi's lubrication system is different from that of other engines, and the oil is retained up in the engine without the use of an ADBV in the filter itself. But I've experienced different in other types of engines. In some engines, even with a vertical filter, a good ADBV is a prerequisite for quiet starts.
We've been through this before. It's certainly possible that there are some situations where this oil above the filter situation might be true, but I'm far from convinced.
It makes a difference in Chrysler's V-6 engines anyway. Some engines may not be as sensitive to it, sure. The phenomenon may exist in some engines and not others.
Originally Posted By: Garak
If the filter is mounted thread side up, the oil isn't going to go anywhere unless someone pokes a hole in it or the car is parked upside down.
I agree and disagree. With the head pressure above the filter, and with no or a malfunctioning ADBV, oil can push back through and into the pan. The filter may still be full, but there may be no oil above it. It's apparent that something in your Audi's lubrication system is different from that of other engines, and the oil is retained up in the engine without the use of an ADBV in the filter itself. But I've experienced different in other types of engines. In some engines, even with a vertical filter, a good ADBV is a prerequisite for quiet starts.
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