Maybe a dumb question, but if your oil filter mounts underneath the engine, but vertically with the open end up, does the type of anti-drainback valve it has matter that much? Or in this case does it matter if it has the anti-drainback valve at all?
Anti drain back valve
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It would be interesting to see an example picture or reference to a full flow auto filter without an anti drainback valve. I have never seen one without. Even if the filter is base up, the valve prevents the oil in the outlet tube and passages above from backflushing the filter, as well as providing quicker oiling on startup since the passages above stay full. It is a necessary check valve in all positions.
An ADBV can keep oil in passages after/above the filter (regardless of it's orientation) in some engine designs. The ADBVsin the oil filters of my 3.4L V6 Chevy Van and 5.3L V8 GMC Sierra hold oil above/after the filter. When the filter is removed, several ounces of oil pour out, and it's not from the filter (they are still full).
Same thing on the Toyota 1.5L engine. Several ounces come out, and the filter base points straight up. The captured dirt needs to stay on the dirty side of the element and inside the can.
ADVs are not meant to hold a column of oil in the engine. They are there to prevent the rapid back flow of the oil, on the dirty side of the element, from RAPIDLY backwashing the trapped particulates into the oil pan. That's it, no other reason but that.
Any oil released when the filter is removed is mostly because of a liquids desire to seek a common level. Inlet side vs outlet side. When the filter is removed, there is no longer a connection between both sides and, the oil drains out.
Some older GM filters do not have ADVs because of their orientation.
Any oil released when the filter is removed is mostly because of a liquids desire to seek a common level. Inlet side vs outlet side. When the filter is removed, there is no longer a connection between both sides and, the oil drains out.
Some older GM filters do not have ADVs because of their orientation.
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Quote:
ADVs are not meant to hold a column of oil in the engine. They are there to prevent the rapid back flow of the oil, on the dirty side of the element, from RAPIDLY backwashing the trapped particulates into the oil pan. That's it, no other reason but that.
Thank you, Pete! I've been saying that for so long I'm blue in the face (not really ..but
).
ADBV don't have to hold for long.
Quote:
It would be interesting to see an example picture or reference to a full flow auto filter without an anti drainback
Once the top most interior of the filter is exposed ..any siphoning stops.
ADVs are not meant to hold a column of oil in the engine. They are there to prevent the rapid back flow of the oil, on the dirty side of the element, from RAPIDLY backwashing the trapped particulates into the oil pan. That's it, no other reason but that.
Thank you, Pete! I've been saying that for so long I'm blue in the face (not really ..but
ADBV don't have to hold for long.
Quote:
It would be interesting to see an example picture or reference to a full flow auto filter without an anti drainback
Once the top most interior of the filter is exposed ..any siphoning stops.
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Originally Posted By: Pete C.
ADVs are not meant to hold a column of oil in the engine. They are there to prevent the rapid back flow of the oil, on the dirty side of the element, from RAPIDLY backwashing the trapped particulates into the oil pan. That's it, no other reason but that.
Any oil released when the filter is removed is mostly because of a liquids desire to seek a common level. Inlet side vs outlet side. When the filter is removed, there is no longer a connection between both sides and, the oil drains out.
Some older GM filters do not have ADVs because of their orientation.
ADVs are not meant to hold a column of oil in the engine. They are there to prevent the rapid back flow of the oil, on the dirty side of the element, from RAPIDLY backwashing the trapped particulates into the oil pan. That's it, no other reason but that.
Any oil released when the filter is removed is mostly because of a liquids desire to seek a common level. Inlet side vs outlet side. When the filter is removed, there is no longer a connection between both sides and, the oil drains out.
Some older GM filters do not have ADVs because of their orientation.
Anybody from Gastonia N.C. has to know because of living there!!
I didn't want to spill the beans.
Originally Posted By: Pete C.
ADVs are not meant to hold a column of oil in the engine. They are there to prevent the rapid back flow of the oil, on the dirty side of the element, from RAPIDLY backwashing the trapped particulates into the oil pan. That's it, no other reason but that.
While that may be the reason the ADBV was implemented, an ADBV that doesn't leak, or leaks very slowly, will also hold more oil in the passages in certain engines.
Originally Posted By: Pete C.
Any oil released when the filter is removed is mostly because of a liquids desire to seek a common level. Inlet side vs outlet side. When the filter is removed, there is no longer a connection between both sides and, the oil drains out.
A non-leaking ADBV will prevent the connection from outlet to inlet to which you refer, and hold more oil in place. A filter with no ADBV always has that connection and oil above/beyond the filter is free to flow backwards through the filter and into the pan when the pump stops.
On some engines the additional oil held in passages by a non-leaking ADBV reduces startup noise since less oil needs to be pumped to fully pressurize and fill the engine's oil system.
Quote:
Some older GM filters do not have ADVs because of their orientation.
If those engines can't hold oil above the oil filter after engine shutoff, an ADBV is not needed to prevent backwashing. Likewise there would be no oil to hold in place in those cases.
ADVs are not meant to hold a column of oil in the engine. They are there to prevent the rapid back flow of the oil, on the dirty side of the element, from RAPIDLY backwashing the trapped particulates into the oil pan. That's it, no other reason but that.
While that may be the reason the ADBV was implemented, an ADBV that doesn't leak, or leaks very slowly, will also hold more oil in the passages in certain engines.
Originally Posted By: Pete C.
Any oil released when the filter is removed is mostly because of a liquids desire to seek a common level. Inlet side vs outlet side. When the filter is removed, there is no longer a connection between both sides and, the oil drains out.
A non-leaking ADBV will prevent the connection from outlet to inlet to which you refer, and hold more oil in place. A filter with no ADBV always has that connection and oil above/beyond the filter is free to flow backwards through the filter and into the pan when the pump stops.
On some engines the additional oil held in passages by a non-leaking ADBV reduces startup noise since less oil needs to be pumped to fully pressurize and fill the engine's oil system.
Quote:
Some older GM filters do not have ADVs because of their orientation.
If those engines can't hold oil above the oil filter after engine shutoff, an ADBV is not needed to prevent backwashing. Likewise there would be no oil to hold in place in those cases.
quote=Pete C.]ADVs are not meant to hold a column of oil in the engine. They are there to prevent the rapid back flow of the oil, on the dirty side of the element, from RAPIDLY backwashing the trapped particulates into the oil pan. That's it, no other reason but that.[/quote]
While that may be the reason the ADBV was implemented, an ADBV that doesn't leak, or leaks very slowly, will also hold more oil in the passages in certain engines. Like I said. the ADV is not designed to hold up a column of oil. If it does so much the better. But don't complain if it does not.
Originally Posted By: Pete C.
Any oil released when the filter is removed is mostly because of a liquids desire to seek a common level. Inlet side vs outlet side. When the filter is removed, there is no longer a connection between both sides and, the oil drains out.
A non-leaking ADBV will prevent the connection from outlet to inlet to which you refer, and hold more oil in place. A filter with no ADBV always has that connection and oil above/beyond the filter is free to flow backwards through the filter and into the pan when the pump stops.Like I said. the ADV is not designed to hold up a column of oil. If it does so much the better. But don't complain if it does not.
On some engines the additional oil held in passages by a non-leaking ADBV reduces startup noise since less oil needs to be pumped to fully pressurize and fill the engine's oil system.
Quote:
Some older GM filters do not have ADVs because of their orientation.
If those engines can't hold oil above the oil filter after engine shutoff, an ADBV is not needed to prevent backwashing. Likewise there would be no oil to hold in place in those cases.
Unless the oil filter is at or below the pans oil level.
No mater what your arguements, the ADV is not there to hold back the return flow of oil from the block and heads when the engine is shut off. Plain and simple fact!
While that may be the reason the ADBV was implemented, an ADBV that doesn't leak, or leaks very slowly, will also hold more oil in the passages in certain engines. Like I said. the ADV is not designed to hold up a column of oil. If it does so much the better. But don't complain if it does not.
Originally Posted By: Pete C.
Any oil released when the filter is removed is mostly because of a liquids desire to seek a common level. Inlet side vs outlet side. When the filter is removed, there is no longer a connection between both sides and, the oil drains out.
A non-leaking ADBV will prevent the connection from outlet to inlet to which you refer, and hold more oil in place. A filter with no ADBV always has that connection and oil above/beyond the filter is free to flow backwards through the filter and into the pan when the pump stops.Like I said. the ADV is not designed to hold up a column of oil. If it does so much the better. But don't complain if it does not.
On some engines the additional oil held in passages by a non-leaking ADBV reduces startup noise since less oil needs to be pumped to fully pressurize and fill the engine's oil system.
Quote:
Some older GM filters do not have ADVs because of their orientation.
If those engines can't hold oil above the oil filter after engine shutoff, an ADBV is not needed to prevent backwashing. Likewise there would be no oil to hold in place in those cases.
Unless the oil filter is at or below the pans oil level.
No mater what your arguements, the ADV is not there to hold back the return flow of oil from the block and heads when the engine is shut off. Plain and simple fact!
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Originally Posted By: Pete C.
No mater what your arguements, the ADV is not there to hold back the return flow of oil from the block and heads when the engine is shut off. Plain and simple fact!
You can choose to ignore the secondary benefits of good ADBVs if you wish. But many have experienced greater start-up noise on some engines when ADBVs don't seal well.
No mater what your arguements, the ADV is not there to hold back the return flow of oil from the block and heads when the engine is shut off. Plain and simple fact!
You can choose to ignore the secondary benefits of good ADBVs if you wish. But many have experienced greater start-up noise on some engines when ADBVs don't seal well.
Originally Posted By: Pete C.
....
Some older GM filters do not have ADVs because of their orientation.
And newer ones too. That is because most GM engines have a ADBV built into them.
If it isn't meant to keep oil from draining back out of the engine, why is it called an anti drain back valve?
....
Some older GM filters do not have ADVs because of their orientation.
And newer ones too. That is because most GM engines have a ADBV built into them.
If it isn't meant to keep oil from draining back out of the engine, why is it called an anti drain back valve?
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Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
Originally Posted By: Pete C.
No mater what your arguements, the ADV is not there to hold back the return flow of oil from the block and heads when the engine is shut off. Plain and simple fact!
You can choose to ignore the secondary benefits of good ADBVs if you wish. But many have experienced greater start-up noise on some engines when ADBVs don't seal well.
Aside from a Cummins ...have you EVER seen a prohibition on any aftermarket filter issues from an OEM engine manufacturer? I haven't. There are some Ford OEM spec's for THEIR aftermarket replacement filter that specify "S" as a suffix to the part number ..but no prohibition on the use of a nitrile ADBV. If that were the case, then Fram's Orange Can of Doom would be BANNED from any engine under manufacturer's warranty.
My speculation, which is more or less (somewhat) proven in the above apparent reality, is that Ford specified the "S" to limit warranty complains from their customers.
Note that not all Ford's spec silicon ADBV ..and those that don't ..don't necessarily have start up rattle.
That is, you can choose to ignore the PRIMARY function of the ADBV if you wish
Originally Posted By: Pete C.
No mater what your arguements, the ADV is not there to hold back the return flow of oil from the block and heads when the engine is shut off. Plain and simple fact!
You can choose to ignore the secondary benefits of good ADBVs if you wish. But many have experienced greater start-up noise on some engines when ADBVs don't seal well.
Aside from a Cummins ...have you EVER seen a prohibition on any aftermarket filter issues from an OEM engine manufacturer? I haven't. There are some Ford OEM spec's for THEIR aftermarket replacement filter that specify "S" as a suffix to the part number ..but no prohibition on the use of a nitrile ADBV. If that were the case, then Fram's Orange Can of Doom would be BANNED from any engine under manufacturer's warranty.
My speculation, which is more or less (somewhat) proven in the above apparent reality, is that Ford specified the "S" to limit warranty complains from their customers.
Note that not all Ford's spec silicon ADBV ..and those that don't ..don't necessarily have start up rattle.
That is, you can choose to ignore the PRIMARY function of the ADBV if you wish
All I was saying is a bad ADV CAN and HAS caused start up noise on some cars and it can and has been fixed be replacing the filter.
My stock Suzuki motorcycle oil filter has a silicon ADV. I do not skimp and run a cheap filter because NONE of the other filters that cross-x with it has a silicon valve.
Does Suzuki do this for high heat and or the long storage that a cycle may see? It could be because the filter fits many different bikes and some of them may be prone to back flush dirty oil?
The AMA Superbike team uses the stock Suzuki filters and those are $250,000 scooters!
My stock Suzuki motorcycle oil filter has a silicon ADV. I do not skimp and run a cheap filter because NONE of the other filters that cross-x with it has a silicon valve.
Does Suzuki do this for high heat and or the long storage that a cycle may see? It could be because the filter fits many different bikes and some of them may be prone to back flush dirty oil?
The AMA Superbike team uses the stock Suzuki filters and those are $250,000 scooters!
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