OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: QuadDriver
Illustrating: a common mistake among jr 'builders' is to prime the oil pump, but not the oil system. How? they get a oil pump drive shaft (which you can make from hand tools) and spin it with a drill. they ignore all this oil pouring over the shaft which would be prevented had a distributor been in place. All the while they did this the oil pressure guage read 40-50-60psi and everyone was happy. then they replaced the distributor, fired it up and wiped out every rod bearing and half the mains....
I've never seen this. Now, this is also usually because a whole lot of assembly lube is used. Do you put together an engine dry?
And usually the pump is run until there is pressure on the gauge AND a significant amount of oil coming out of the rockers.
I've done this a few times, and witnessed it done numerous times and you know, we've never had an engine or bearing failure because of it.
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Why is it ok? well, none of these engines are going to see 6000rpm. Most wont see 4000. the pump and spring are set to begin bleedoff at 40-45psi and are in full bypass at 60 BUT, NONE of you EVER see that on your gauge. At least not hot. My windors run 52 and will get close to 60 on a kickdown, before it falls off. My chevies, evne the ones with hi vols only go about 55.
What Windsors are YOU running? the stock relief on the any of the modern Windsors was/is 65psi stock. I've seen them hit that pressure many, MANY times. And mine also hit a heck of a lot more RPM than that.
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why? because at WOT and max RPM on a stock pump, then engine is already outstripping the pump.
why dont they set the spring higher? let me answer that with a question: how is the pump driven?
Maybe you are building these wrong? Ford set the HO to rev to 6,250 stock. It would spin to 6,250 all day long, and make 65psi doing it. I've owned a few of them, heck, I have two of them right now with almost 700,000Km on them between the pair. Both stock bottom-ends.
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When you put in a hivol pump (with or without the hivol spring) what ELSE do you put in? (this is one of those clues I drop from time to time to look something up)
Why are WE the ones having to look this up when you are the one who nobody appears to agree with? Aloof references to get us to "think outside the box"... really? Isn't the burden of proof on YOU here?
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And I mentioned this once before: ford, or chevy I have seen this, especially in a boat, which has heavier duty parts, at sustained WOT operation will gradually drop oil pressure to about 40 when the system re-stablizes. I dunno about you, but I can only get about 5200-5400rpm out of my boats without caviation. such are the penalties of non-surface piercing drives. I bet anyone reading this has not seen 4800 out of their boat.
My old 888 (302) would spin 4,800 all day long. IIRC, it was around 45psi at that RPM, but that engine is tired, and with a LOT of hours on it.
We had an old Y-block that would run to 7K. But it only had bypass filtration, so not really relevant to the discussion at hand.
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Obviously, no one is doing this in their cars, or if they were, they would be on CNN, and no one would race an engine at those speeds without many modifications - which among the first are dry sump oiling, and *2* oil filters. Big ones.
It is done all the time on the Autobahn......
Illustrating: a common mistake among jr 'builders' is to prime the oil pump, but not the oil system. How? they get a oil pump drive shaft (which you can make from hand tools) and spin it with a drill. they ignore all this oil pouring over the shaft which would be prevented had a distributor been in place. All the while they did this the oil pressure guage read 40-50-60psi and everyone was happy. then they replaced the distributor, fired it up and wiped out every rod bearing and half the mains....
I've never seen this. Now, this is also usually because a whole lot of assembly lube is used. Do you put together an engine dry?
And usually the pump is run until there is pressure on the gauge AND a significant amount of oil coming out of the rockers.
I've done this a few times, and witnessed it done numerous times and you know, we've never had an engine or bearing failure because of it.
Quote:
Why is it ok? well, none of these engines are going to see 6000rpm. Most wont see 4000. the pump and spring are set to begin bleedoff at 40-45psi and are in full bypass at 60 BUT, NONE of you EVER see that on your gauge. At least not hot. My windors run 52 and will get close to 60 on a kickdown, before it falls off. My chevies, evne the ones with hi vols only go about 55.
What Windsors are YOU running? the stock relief on the any of the modern Windsors was/is 65psi stock. I've seen them hit that pressure many, MANY times. And mine also hit a heck of a lot more RPM than that.
Quote:
why? because at WOT and max RPM on a stock pump, then engine is already outstripping the pump.
why dont they set the spring higher? let me answer that with a question: how is the pump driven?
Maybe you are building these wrong? Ford set the HO to rev to 6,250 stock. It would spin to 6,250 all day long, and make 65psi doing it. I've owned a few of them, heck, I have two of them right now with almost 700,000Km on them between the pair. Both stock bottom-ends.
Quote:
When you put in a hivol pump (with or without the hivol spring) what ELSE do you put in? (this is one of those clues I drop from time to time to look something up)
Why are WE the ones having to look this up when you are the one who nobody appears to agree with? Aloof references to get us to "think outside the box"... really? Isn't the burden of proof on YOU here?
Quote:
And I mentioned this once before: ford, or chevy I have seen this, especially in a boat, which has heavier duty parts, at sustained WOT operation will gradually drop oil pressure to about 40 when the system re-stablizes. I dunno about you, but I can only get about 5200-5400rpm out of my boats without caviation. such are the penalties of non-surface piercing drives. I bet anyone reading this has not seen 4800 out of their boat.
My old 888 (302) would spin 4,800 all day long. IIRC, it was around 45psi at that RPM, but that engine is tired, and with a LOT of hours on it.
We had an old Y-block that would run to 7K. But it only had bypass filtration, so not really relevant to the discussion at hand.
Quote:
Obviously, no one is doing this in their cars, or if they were, they would be on CNN, and no one would race an engine at those speeds without many modifications - which among the first are dry sump oiling, and *2* oil filters. Big ones.
It is done all the time on the Autobahn......