Oh no, what did I do? Battery charging in vehicle

[WhamR22]

Hello everyone, I am happy I found this resource. I have stumbled across a problem and I do hope that it is a minor issue, this is something I have not encountered before. So let's have at it, please rate how bad this is for my vehicle on a scale of 1 to 10.

I was working on my old trusty Dodge and it came time recently to change batteries. I had it since oh about 5 years and the old one has run its course, and a new one was purchased about a week or so ago. Well, unbeknownst to me, my alternator decided to quit. What better way to find out than while driving on the highway. Bummer.

Anyways, since the alternator is coming forthwith yet I still need to get to work, I decide to charge up the battery while it is hooked up to the car. I did not see the harm in this, this car is a second priority, perhaps I didn't think it all the way through but I am new to this, how could it hurt was my train of thought.

And this is where the problem begins.

Just now, I go to turn it on, a little late night insomnia. So, I turn the key to ignition.. I see the cluster light up, good. Electronics working, lights, radio is on, etc. They are off but they are operational is what I am saying. So I go to start the car while it is still hooked up and I hear *click*

I think to myself "oh no what have I done." I go out there and take off the negative terminal, and put it back on, and I see the interior light come back on. This is good.

So, I go to recreate the process, and it happens again, the same way. I can turn key to ignition and everything works, I go to start it and *click*

The battery is presently charging up some more, I have an old-fashioned automatic slow charger from Sears. It puts in 2A current.

Will this work itself out, or did I do something? Does it simply need more charge or what.. This is new to me, any input would be greatly appreciated. Thankies!

 

[KD0AXS]

How long did you let it charge? It's going to take quite a while to fully charge at 2 amps.

 

[Chris142]

How many Amp Hrs is the battery?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
How long did you let it charge? It's going to take quite a while to fully charge at 2 amps.


+1 It takes a very long time to charge up a battery at 2 amps.

 

[tc1446]

I think around 8-10 hrs on 2 amps if battery was way down.

 

[Silverado12]

I've seen it happen a lot: a bad battery will kill an alternator. I should make myself more clear. The battery was probably bad and needed to be replaced. There are many times when a battery and an alternator seem to go bad at the same time. This is why.

 

[Trav]

The battery is probably 60 amp or more so a 2 amp charger will need about 30 hrs from almost dead.

 

[Clevy]

Driving the vehicle without an alternator running the accessories and charging the battery will fry the battery,reducing total acceptable charge once the alternator is re-installed. I hope you got a warranty with the battery and when you take it back DO NOT TELL THEM how how were running the vehicle.

 

[spasm3]

The battery may have enough to light up the lights and console, but may be so bad that it will never accept enough charge to start the car. I would get a new battery, so you don't kill the new alternator.

 

[Donald]

Yes, 2A is for a garden tractor battery. I could see a 2A charger taking well over a day maybe two.

 

[Mr Nice]

At 2 Amps it took over 24 hours to recharge my mom's dead battery that was only 1 year old.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

36 hours to go from completely drained to 13.6 on an old car battery I killed

 

[eljefino]

I've had a 6 amp charger go overnight and put in enough energy to start, though probably not a full charge.

Missed what kind of truck this is, if it's carbureted it'll run off a nearly dead battery so you have that much more to put in.

Pro tip, some parts stores have free battery charging so if you have a pep boys battery take it to autozone and have them charge it up... don't go to the store you bought the battery from or you could ding your warranty.

 

[Chris142]

It may be a 100A battery for all we know. That would take 50 hrs @ 2A. While you don't want to charge a battery too fast I think it would be safe to get a better charger like a 6A so he could get the ball rolling.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
I've seen it happen a lot: a bad battery will kill an alternator. I should make myself more clear. The battery was probably bad and needed to be replaced. There are many times when a battery and an alternator seem to go bad at the same time. This is why.


I may have shortened the life of my alternator. Over the summer, I had some wierd issues with my Jeep - voltage was going up and down all the time and the alternator was always whining. It would always crank slow (even with a new starter). I nursed it along and figured I'd replace the alternator when it died. The battery gave up first, I threw a new battery in it and no more voltage issues or alternator whining.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
How long did you let it charge? It's going to take quite a while to fully charge at 2 amps.
+1 With an OLD battery a mingy 2 amps may not exceed the leakage current, and not charge it at all. . A 100 amp hour battery takes MORE than 100 amps for an hour to charge it up. A battery which is nearly dead will still run an interior light or a solid state radio, but NOT a starter motor.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
It may be a 100A battery for all we know. That would take 50 hrs @ 2A. While you don't want to charge a battery too fast I think it would be safe to get a better charger like a 6A so he could get the ball rolling.


I believe you can dump big time amperage in them to begin with when they're pretty low. However, as the battery's charge comes up, it will accept less and less current, raising the open circuit voltage. If not monitored (by you or a smart charger), voltage can come up to the point where the battery boils and looses it's electrolyte and damage occurs. I've always put our work charger on 40amp charge, but had a meter plugged in to monitor charge voltage. Usually it'll start in the mid 13 volt range, unless it' really dead, then I'll see high 12's. Once it hits 15+ volts on the 40amp setting, I will click it down to the 10amp setting and voltage will typically drop to low/mid 13's. Sure, I could just put the charger on the 10amp setting and walk away, but my idiot boss is one of those who thinks alternators are for charging dead batteries... So I try to dump as much current back into a battery as quickly as I can, before the vehicle goes down the road without damaging it.

To the O/P: Your charger may not be working correctly, or may not be charging at a high enough rate to bring the battery back in the time frame you allowed it before attempting to start it. Knowing the battery size may help us know how long it'll take your little charger to charge it back up. Also for grins, if you have a multi meter, you should read the voltage while charging. Don't trust the one on your charger if it has one.

 

[WhamR22]

To all the replies, first of all thank you so much.

And based upon what I am reading, I am beginning to think that this battery may have a problem, even though used once and brand new.

When the battery died, it did so on the road. I was able to coast to a battery place. Cost a cool $140 and an hour and a half, to have a new battery installed. This got me home, and I had to drive the rest of the day. A couple of hours later on continuous use, it died and would not resuscitate. I then purchased a second new battery. Taxis were involved both times. Yesterday was a very expensive day.

This battery was used one time and that is the one that I slow charged, they took the old, aged battery as a core/return.

That battery said Energizer on it and appeared new. The RC was 90 so I assume that is 90 minutes.

The reason that I assume there to be a problem is that I then switched it over to a new charger, I had a NOCO on hand, and it only took 10 to 12 hours to charge it all the way up from stone dead?

I ask and post now because I am debating whether or not to use the car today, it still has a non-functioning alternator, or not. And the other new battery did come from a Walmart, it was an EverStart Maxx it cost $110. That one has a full 10 minutes of use, and that battery is now in the backseat, I put the Energizer back in to charge overnight since it was dead and the Everstart Maxx was not.

What would you do here, would you chance a 40-minute highway drive 20 minutes to 20 minutes back on the Energizer before letting it get some mechanical attention?

I also had the defroster fan on low while driving on this battery power, not a smart move but I did not realize.

Also, to poster that asked about the multimeter, above: I do have a digital multimeter. I measured the voltage before connecting it with the lights will come on but engine will not start behavior. The Energizer battery read 13.17 volts or 13.15.

I am honestly asking myself if this one trip honestly grenaded this battery, the Energizer one. The Everstart Maxx has a full 10 minutes of use, that one should likely still be fine agree or disagree? Unsure what to do here.

 

[oilboy123]

If you are learning about all this stuff I would go find a website about charging/alternator and battery and starter. They are a trio that are closely related.

The battery and alternator are a Ying and Yang sort of thing. I can tell fairly accurately what's going on with just a voltmeter.
I quickly read through this thread, so I did not get all the info out of it. Normally an alternator is putting out at least 14 volts.

Take it to the parts stores and get a free electrical check.

Good luck

Here is a quick search:
https://www.google.com/search?q=battery+or+alternator+problems&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb

 

[wrcsixeight]

The best way to kill a battery without a sledgehammer is to drain it slowly to completely dead, and leave it there.

Your trusty old Dodge's battery cables are probably done for. If you see any white or green corrosion on the cable itself, then replace it.

Follow the main black cable from the battery to the engine. Remove it from the engine. File/ wire brush it shiny, retighten it.

Also find the thinner black wire that goes from the battery(-) to the firewall. Same treatment. I'd also remove the fat red wire from the starter and make sure it too has a nice clean tight connection.

A battery just removed from a charger will read high voltages(12.8+) due to surface charge. It does not mean that the battery is 100% charged, unless it is 12.6+ many many hours after removal from the charging source.

Never ask a new alternator to charge a dead battery.

Never disconnect the battery on a running engine to check the alternator

Never assume that when a battery dies that the alternator is at fault without checking everything else first.

The fusible link on the alt(+) to battery(+) cable is a length of wire with more rubbery insulation somewhere along that path. These are supposed to look burnt and stretch out when they blow. When they are 20+ years old they can fail without showing these symptoms. In fact they can pass small currents and will have continuity, but when the battery is hungry and asks for more, continuity can be lost.

Older dodges with external voltage regulators must have the body of the voltage regulator well grounded. Not doing so usually results in full fielding the alternator and overcharging the battery though.

It is always safer to remove the ground cable when charging a battery in the vehicle. Older Manual chargers will just keep the battery voltage rising after full charge has been reached.

Automatic chargers usually flash the green light in the 92 to 97% state of charge area. Several more hours of small currents might be required to truly fully charge the battery, but for most purposes, 97% is more than close enough.