OEM vs aftermarket ATF

[FDT09]

Main point of the post was to discuss different ATFs and how two different Dexron VI fluids can have different specs. I recently saw a video by the Motor Oil Geek (on someone else's YouTube channel (can't find it now), where he said ATF is more complex than oils, more additives, etc., and probably best to go with OEM or OEM approved.

Below are some different spec sheets compared 3 Dexron VI fluids, and then 2 additional Valvoline (MaxLife and Extended Performance). Notice there are some difference between the Dexron. Does this much matter? Are they all good enough quality fluids that they're interchangeable? I couldn't find a spec sheet for SuperTech Dexron, and didn't look for Amsoil or Redline. If you have one handy, please post. See attached image comparing them.

And some request for advice in my specific situation. Trying decide what to put in my transmission. I recently did an initial drain and fill at 80k miles with 4qt OEM ACDelco I got from Amazon (I think it's legit, sold by Amazon) + 1 qt of Valvoline Extended Protection. I feel a little shudder during the first shift when cold, and the dip stick is barely wet when cold, and when fully warm just barely goes over the minimum line - so I think I need to top it off a little before I do another drain and fill at my next oil change. Was planning on topping with just blue Valvoline Dexron VI, but notice the specs aren't exact as the AC Delco.

Should I stick to just AC Delco for the topoff, and then use it solely when doing my next drain and fill? Or does it not really matter and OEM approved Dexron and recommended for are pretty much interchangeable?

Thanks

 

[Donald]

I cannot comment on your choices. I just use the ATF and gear oils that Amsoil has listed for my vehicle/engine. Never had any issues.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

What kind of car is it? Are you still under warranty? When the mfr say to change the ATF?

Any licensed Dexron VI will be fine, as they are officially approved by GM. If you are still under warranty, any licensed Dexron VI will be acceptable. Out of warranty, it matters much less, as there are plenty of non-licensed Dexron VI fluids that will be fine, including the popular Maxlife.

If there is shudder, perhaps an additive like Lubegard will help with that.

 

[FDT09]

What kind of car is it? Are you still under warranty? When the mfr say to change the ATF?

Any licensed Dexron VI will be fine, as they are officially approved by GM. If you are still under warranty, any licensed Dexron VI will be acceptable. Out of warranty, it matters much less, as there are plenty of non-licensed Dexron VI fluids that will be fine, including the popular Maxlife.

If there is shudder, perhaps an additive like Lubegard will help with that.

2014 Chevy Malibu. Manual says change at 100k, or at 50k for severe driving. I drive mostly highway and have a light foot. So out of warranty. Kinda curious about what's best for the transmission long term, or are you saying there's no real world difference?

The shudder is just switching from R to D after backing out of the driveway, and the. Going from 1 to 2. Then it's fine after . Makes me think fluid level related. I think I'll add a little fluid before looking at adding Lube guard. For some reason weird additives weird me out.

 

[SC Maintenance]

My personal opinion is that you want to stay as close to possible with the viscosity of the original spec. So if you can find an aftermarket fluid that does and also meets spec, then I would think its OK.

What befuddles me is a fluid like Maxlife that claims to meet spec on all brands of fluids who's viscosities are all over the place? I am unsure how that is really possible.

 

[Blang]

All of those operating temperature viscosities are super close (unless I missed something). I've put Valvoline MaxLife in my sister's Malibu w/ 6-speed auto a couple times over the years. Still going strong with well over 100k (and for hopefully a lot longer). I noticed it helped my Cavalier's transmission when it would have some slight slipping. I haven't noticed any slipping in probably 30-40k miles. I'm a huge believer in synthetic ATF (guessing I'm not alone here). Based on comments here at BITOG I have used Lubegard at times. It's literally the only additive I'll put in anything.

 

[CleanSump]

There is nothing weird about Lubegard and it is very well tested for 40 years. It works and will cause no harm. It's been in all of my trans, GM, Ford, BMW, and Mercedes for 30 years. I use either Valvoline Dex VI or Amsoil. Even in BMWs with the GM trans. Maxlife has a big following because it works. Any licensed Dex VI will be fine.
And who do you think makes the OEM fluids? It is the companies that make and sell the aftermarket fluids. The OEMs don't make their own, they contract it out.

 

[Dino01]

OEM in most cases or manufacturer approved aftermarket in some, like Fuchs atf for Mercedes or Supertech Mercon V in older Fords, both aftermarket but specifically approved by the manufacturer.

In other cases like Honda dw1 or WS Toyota, OEM.

 

[skaughtz]

There is nothing weird about Lubegard and it is very well tested for 40 years. It works and will cause no harm. It's been in all of my trans, GM, Ford, BMW, and Mercedes for 30 years. I use either Valvoline Dex VI or Amsoil. Even in BMWs with the GM trans. Maxlife has a big following because it works. Any licensed Dex VI will be fine.
And who do you think makes the OEM fluids? It is the companies that make and sell the aftermarket fluids. The OEMs don't make their own, they contract it out.

This is a carry over from another thread, but I am also a bit confused about how MaxLife manages to apply to such a broad range of transmissions (disclaimer: I love the stuff in my Camry). For instance, I AI'd the viscosities for ZF Lifeguard 9 and MaxLife, and they are different. How different I would need someone more knowledgeable than myself about these things to explain:, but they are different

ZF Lifeguard 9
24.9 mm²/s (cSt) @ 40 C
5.6 mm²/s (cSt) @ 100 C

MaxLife
28.0-28.82 mm²/s (cSt) @ 40 C
5.9 mm²/s (cSt) @ 100 C

Are those differences large enough to have a real-world effect? I don't know. But, given that transmissions are designed around and rely so heavily on hydraulic pressure, and the ATF acts as the medium for that, I am inclined to think that while it may work fine for however much time, it could lead to problems in the future.

I would love to be convinced otherwise because the ZF9 fluid is stupid pricey for ATF.

 

[Blang]

This is a carry over from another thread, but I am also a bit confused about how MaxLife manages to apply to such a broad range of transmissions (disclaimer: I love the stuff in my Camry). For instance, I AI'd the viscosities for ZF Lifeguard 9 and MaxLife, and they are different. How different I would need someone more knowledgeable than myself about these things to explain:, but they are different

ZF Lifeguard 9
24.9 mm²/s (cSt) @ 40 C
5.6 mm²/s (cSt) @ 100 C

MaxLife
28.0-28.82 mm²/s (cSt) @ 40 C
5.9 mm²/s (cSt) @ 100 C

Are those differences large enough to have a real-world effect? I don't know. But, given that transmissions are designed around and rely so heavily on hydraulic pressure, and the ATF acts as the medium for that, I am inclined to think that while it may work fine for however much time, it could lead to problems in the future.

I would love to be convinced otherwise because the ZF9 fluid is stupid pricey for ATF.

I don't consider myself an ATF expert, but I would say those viscosities are super close. Engine oil serves a different purpose... but grades (20, 30, 40, etc) are a much broader range than what you are seeing between ZF 9 and MaxLife. With that said, there are some applications I would be hesitant with, but it's done well in my (mostly) GM transmissions.

 

[ka9mnx]

I don't see a big enough difference in the fluids you listed to make a difference.
The only thing that would make a difference would be the additive package.

 

[FDT09]

Any licensed Dexron VI will be fine, as they are officially approved by GM.

So in your opinion something that is "recommended for Dexron" but not "Dexron approved," like MaxLife or Extended Protection, should be avoided?

All of those operating temperature viscosities are super close

Yeah, the absolute numbers are. But I guess I just don't know enough to know how much different transmissions care about viscosity. As someone else mentioned, the fluid is such a huge component of transmitting power and operation, how can different ATFs with a wide range of viscosity all claim to be applicable. Even the Dexron Approved Valvoline has a different viscosity than Dexron itself.

I'm a huge believer in synthetic ATF (guessing I'm not alone here).

Makes sense, more thermally stable. Regarding ACDelco, I have read online that it's full synthetic, others say synthetic blend. I saw one bottle that stated "fully synthetic blend." No idea what to make of that.

And who do you think makes the OEM fluids? It is the companies that make and sell the aftermarket fluids. The OEMs don't make their own, they contract it out.

I'm aware. But even given that, you can send fluids made by the same manufacturer, under different labels but same spec, to a lab, and they'll come back with different properties.

I don't see a big enough difference in the fluids you listed to make a difference.
The only thing that would make a difference would be the additive package.

Yeah, and that additive package is proprietary so no clue without analysis. And the Motor Oil Geek said that transmissions are certified to OEM fluids, so to stick with OEM. And I think he said/suggested Approved is good enough, but recommended might be pushing it.

 

[GMBoy]

What kind of car is it? Are you still under warranty? When the mfr say to change the ATF?

Any licensed Dexron VI will be fine, as they are officially approved by GM. If you are still under warranty, any licensed Dexron VI will be acceptable. Out of warranty, it matters much less, as there are plenty of non-licensed Dexron VI fluids that will be fine, including the popular Maxlife.

If there is shudder, perhaps an additive like Lubegard will help with that.

Every bit this!! ^^^^ including Lubegard Shudder fix additive

 

[CleanSump]

You're overthinking it and making it too hard.
Millions upon millions of automobiles are just fine with what the members have told you. Yours is not special or unique.
If you are worried that something other than GM is not be "good enough" or will cause a problem then buy from GM.

 

[56Cummins]

I won't use a universal fluid that includes cvt. Thats like ketchup and mustard in the same bottle to me.

Easy answer is get an approved fluid.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

So in your opinion something that is "recommended for Dexron" but not "Dexron approved," like MaxLife or Extended Protection, should be avoided?

Maxlife will be fine

I was just saying to get something licensed if you were still under warranty, but since you're not, then Maxlife and other "recommended for Dexron VI" will be good too.

There is nothing wrong with Maxlife or other synthetic LV multi ATF

 

[FDT09]

You're overthinking it and making it too hard.
Millions upon millions of automobiles are just fine with what the members have told you. Yours is not special or unique.
If you are worried that something other than GM is not be "good enough" or will cause a problem then buy from GM.

Yeah, I know it's nothing special. I would like to purchase something better than OEM ACDelco, if possible, without breaking the bank. But also you hear stories of people straying from OEM fluid and their car explodes. I mainly am just curious if sticking with one fluid over another might have more benefit/less wear/better mileage/better fluid longevity or longer change interval/etc. Almost everyone on this forum probably over thinks this stuff, I would imagine.

It's probably like motor oil, I've had people tell me never put anything in it other than Dexos or you risk LSPI (since it's turbo), when I wanted to try Pennzoil Ultra Platinum. But upon further research, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is SN/SP certified by API, and probably just didn't want to pay GM for Dexos badge.

 

[joekingcorvette]

I did a drain and fill with Mobil 1 ATF in my 2012 Civic one time and it made a clunk when going from reverse to drive and drive to reverse. Years ago it was recommended as ok by Mobil 1. As soon as I could I did a few drain and fills with the correct Honda fluid and the noise would be lessened with every drain and fill. I would try to get as close to what is recommended as possible from the factory. When it comes to ATF some transmissions are able to accept different kinds while it doesn't work as good in others. Mobil 1 took the Honda name off their bottle later on since they probably figured out it didn't work correctly.

 

[Pablo]

Those differences are not so great as people assume.

Sure there is enough 100°C cSt difference for companies to sell slightly different base oil component (blend to achieve viscosity) ATFs to cover ULV-ATF, LV-ATF and ATF (CVT NOT included in this discussion) . Then there are the additives in the formula (typically sold as packages by star additive manufacturers) that cover an amazingly wide variety of ATFs and they do work. The OEM's sometimes default to the AT contract manufacturer's recommendatio - but sometimes with a twist - "only our ATF will work". I mean, sure MAYBE, but - this so far just not is proving to be the truth is such a high percent of cases, I think by now we can doubt this.

Motor Oil Guru (MOG) should know this, but just hasn't gone deep with HPL, Amsoil, others. AND It's not like MOG is some kind of Oil God, and knows everything. He makes mistakes and seems maybe he is defaulting to his lack of knowledge more than anything.

Yes I know I sell ATF. Use what want but, I have no complaints from customers in so many AT applications. I would know and I wouldn't lie.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Main point of the post was to discuss different ATFs and how two different Dexron VI fluids can have different specs. I recently saw a video by the Motor Oil Geek (on someone else's YouTube channel (can't find it now), where he said ATF is more complex than oils, more additives, etc., and probably best to go with OEM or OEM approved.

Below are some different spec sheets compared 3 Dexron VI fluids, and then 2 additional Valvoline (MaxLife and Extended Performance). Notice there are some difference between the Dexron. Does this much matter? Are they all good enough quality fluids that they're interchangeable? I couldn't find a spec sheet for SuperTech Dexron, and didn't look for Amsoil or Redline. If you have one handy, please post. See attached image comparing them.

And some request for advice in my specific situation. Trying decide what to put in my transmission. I recently did an initial drain and fill at 80k miles with 4qt OEM ACDelco I got from Amazon (I think it's legit, sold by Amazon) + 1 qt of Valvoline Extended Protection. I feel a little shudder during the first shift when cold, and the dip stick is barely wet when cold, and when fully warm just barely goes over the minimum line - so I think I need to top it off a little before I do another drain and fill at my next oil change. Was planning on topping with just blue Valvoline Dexron VI, but notice the specs aren't exact as the AC Delco.

Should I stick to just AC Delco for the topoff, and then use it solely when doing my next drain and fill? Or does it not really matter and OEM approved Dexron and recommended for are pretty much interchangeable?

Thanks

View attachment 326843

I've always been an OE only kind of guy simply because I only refresh the fluid every 50k-75k miles. That being said the additive companies who develop multi-vehicle ATF must know what they're doing because you just don't hear stories about catastrophic failures. @MolaKule has contributed extensively on this topic and a site search may point you to some of those discussions.