NYPD: Rookies get Better Guns

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NYPD vets upset that rookies get better guns By Shawn Cohen November 28, 2016 | 5:24am | Updated The NYPD’s young guns are hitting the streets with new pistols that are more accurate and feature better grips — but veteran cops are angry that, unlike rookies, they’ll have to pony up $525 if they want to upgrade to the better firepower. “If the Glock 17 can help us shoot better, that increases our safety,” one seasoned Brooklyn cop said. “I personally believe the department should help out in paying for the new gun, or, at least, provide an even swap. “Not everybody has $525 on hand to make a purchase like that.” The department introduced the Glock 17, Generation 4, to newbies in the Police Academy in July, and is offering it free to all new classes of recruits. The gunmaker touts “revolutionary” design advances over other models because it features a longer barrel, textured grip, customizable back strap and a reversible, enlarged magazine catch that makes it easier to swap out the magazine. “It’s the ergonomics of this gun that makes this a better gun,” said Inspector Raymond Caroli, commander of the NYPD firearms and tactics section. Recruits, who are issued a service weapon in the academy at no cost, get to pick among the Glock 17 and two other guns that have been offered for years — the subcompact Glock 19 and the Sig Sauer P226. Most are picking the Glock 17, Caroli said. He added that having more senior cops pay was a policy matter, saying, “If an in-service cop wants that gun, he can go ahead and buy it.” The rollout comes as the NYPD stresses its community policing program and works to improve police-community relations, which have been damaged by police-involved shootings. Some cops are criticizing another aspect of the Glock 17 rollout, noting that the department is purposefully limiting the number of bullets they can carry. The gun, as designed, can hold 17-round magazines — two more than the Glock 19. But the NYPD had the manufacturer customize the Glock 17s to carry only 15 rounds so it would be consistent with the interchangeable Glock 19 magazine. One cop who recently went to the firing range said the instructor there drew guffaws when he explained the 15-bullet limit. “Half the class laughed when the instructor said that,” the officer said. “Good ol’ NYPD, they’re restricting us yet again, only handing out the 15 option.” Another cop said, “Why would you select a firearm that can hold 17 rounds, but then only allow 15 to be carried? It defies common sense. Officers may need those rounds if they find themselves in an active-shooter situation like Dallas or Orlando.” NY Post
 
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Originally Posted By: CT8
I have to buy my own tools boo hoo .
Exactly. I worked in the moldmaker and metal working machining trades for 45 years. And in that time I ponied up thousands of dollars for all of my own tools. I also retired without the benefit of a huge taxpayer funded pension or medical benefit. These coddled cry babies have absolutely NOTHING to whine about. If they want a new gun, shut up and buy it. We do.
 

Astro14

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So, what do the current officers carry? Glock 17 is a good pistol, but better than others? That's pretty subjective...better than the Sig P226? Glock 19? I think those were the previous choices...
 
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It appears that the NYPD Glock 17's are limited to 15 rounds. The only advantage the 17's now have over the Glock 19 is that the 17's have a longer barrel, which would be a bit more accurate in a firefight. I understand why they had them customized to accept only 15 rounds - it allows interchangeable magazines between all officers who have Glock handguns. Glock 19's will take Glock 17 magazines but current off the shelf Glock 17's cannot take Glock 19 mags (the 19 mags are too short). Standardizing grip lengths between 17's and 19's might come in handy if one officer with a 17 runs out of ammo and needs to "borrow" a magazine from a fellow officer who has a 19. It still doesn't help if the officer next to him has a P226, though. I think the department might have been better off just standardizing on the Glock 19. It's a lighter, more compact and easier to carry gun with slightly less accuracy than the 17 but probably good enough for most officers. Any officer who needs to shoot accurately at longer ranges should probably be using a MP-5 or AR-15.
 
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Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
NYPD vets upset that rookies get better guns By Shawn Cohen November 28, 2016 | 5:24am | Updated The NYPD’s young guns are hitting the streets with new pistols that are more accurate and feature better grips — but veteran cops are angry that, unlike rookies, they’ll have to pony up $525 if they want to upgrade to the better firepower. “If the Glock 17 can help us shoot better, that increases our safety,” one seasoned Brooklyn cop said. “I personally believe the department should help out in paying for the new gun, or, at least, provide an even swap. “Not everybody has $525 on hand to make a purchase like that.” The department introduced the Glock 17, Generation 4, to newbies in the Police Academy in July, and is offering it free to all new classes of recruits. The gunmaker touts “revolutionary” design advances over other models because it features a longer barrel, textured grip, customizable back strap and a reversible, enlarged magazine catch that makes it easier to swap out the magazine. “It’s the ergonomics of this gun that makes this a better gun,” said Inspector Raymond Caroli, commander of the NYPD firearms and tactics section. Recruits, who are issued a service weapon in the academy at no cost, get to pick among the Glock 17 and two other guns that have been offered for years — the subcompact Glock 19 and the Sig Sauer P226. Most are picking the Glock 17, Caroli said. He added that having more senior cops pay was a policy matter, saying, “If an in-service cop wants that gun, he can go ahead and buy it.” The rollout comes as the NYPD stresses its community policing program and works to improve police-community relations, which have been damaged by police-involved shootings. Some cops are criticizing another aspect of the Glock 17 rollout, noting that the department is purposefully limiting the number of bullets they can carry. The gun, as designed, can hold 17-round magazines — two more than the Glock 19. But the NYPD had the manufacturer customize the Glock 17s to carry only 15 rounds so it would be consistent with the interchangeable Glock 19 magazine. One cop who recently went to the firing range said the instructor there drew guffaws when he explained the 15-bullet limit. “Half the class laughed when the instructor said that,” the officer said. “Good ol’ NYPD, they’re restricting us yet again, only handing out the 15 option.” Another cop said, “Why would you select a firearm that can hold 17 rounds, but then only allow 15 to be carried? It defies common sense. Officers may need those rounds if they find themselves in an active-shooter situation like Dallas or Orlando.” NY Post
Check the salaries those "senior" cops collect. Perhaps give them a free firearm if they can show "need". Keep in mine that gun shop owners go out of their way to offer discounts to police officers in many localities.
 
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The 15 round limitation, can't wrap my head around that one. Pretty messed up thinking. I wonder those mags get tossed in short order, or become range mags. Lemme get this straight: new recruits get a free new gun. Probably been this way for a long time? If it's been this way for say a couple decades, then surely "better" guns had been offered as time went on--first moving from revolver to auto, then perhaps from one auto to another. Article just makes senior cops sound whiny, complaining that the new guys got some for nothing--when in reality everyone got something for nothing. shrug $525 isn't that much money "if your life depended upon it", and it wouldn't be $525, as most shops take trade-ins. Since most police aren't involved in shootouts "all the time" I might be apt to stick with the smaller&lighter 19 if it was me.
 
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Originally Posted By: MinamiKotaro
Rookies should have better stuff. They lack the experience to make the most of old/inadequate/outdated tools.
+1 I feel like most rookies are too green to be confident in what they are doing. I know some of the old school guys in Boston still preferred a revolver versus semi-auto for that reason. Granted this is dating me as everybody is semi-auto but the still reasoning applies. Newer recruits, newer things. Supton is right, if your life depends on it I don't care the cost. I would spend infinite amount if it meant that when push comes to shove I can rely on something that will bring me home to my family.
 
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They complain about a limit on ammo...now they know how the civilians feel. There should be a good sized list of duty and backup guns they can pick from. There are a multitude of guns I would rather carry all day as a cop than a Glock or SIG...especially a US made Sig which can be a bit iffy in the reliability department.
 
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Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
S&W Model 10 M&P with 4" barrel, that's what they need.Keep em from shooting a toe off.
The NYPD used the Model 10 revolver for many years (from 1926 to 1986, according to Wikipedia). It's a very fine gun and it is very reliable. The problem with it is that it holds only 6 rounds of ammo, versus 15 for the Glock 19 and the new 17's they are now using. The Model 10 had a rather heavy trigger pull in double action mode, which certainly reduced the number of "nonintentional" discharges. The Glocks are issued with "New York" triggers, which basically double the trigger pull (over the stock Glock) needed to fire the pistol and make the pull somewhat similar to that of the old revolvers. Glocks also have a trigger safety (in addition to two more internal safeties to prevent discharge if the gun is dropped), which the old S&W's didn't have (at least not from the factory), so theoretically they should be the safer guns to use. Of course, it's hard to overcome operator error! Lots of cops still manage to shoot themselves even with modern safety devices.
 

Nickdfresh

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Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Check the salaries those "senior" cops collect. Perhaps give them a free firearm if they can show "need". Keep in mine that gun shop owners go out of their way to offer discounts to police officers in many localities.
Not to mention overtime...
 
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New recruits are customarily outfitted with the new equipment first. Whether or not the senior officers should have to pay for their equipment is another matter, but this isn't exactly a new way. Instructors go first, followed by recruits, then everyone else.
 
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With all of the peeks that senior NYPD cops enjoy over the rookies, why complain? I don't know how they imagine things working out, but if I am ever in a situation that requires discharge of 17 rounds before reloading, I'm going to fall back and come up with a better strategy before I discharge even half those rounds. Sounds like a lot of crybabying. Down here, many police agencies have taken action to restrict what type and how many personal firearms can be used for duty due to many interesting types and amounts of personal weapons brought on the job (knives, batons, takers, assault rifles, you name it). Up there, they're moaning about their service weapon. Incredible.
 
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The Glock is only an upgrade if you shoot it well. Some people don't like the grip angle or the muzzle flip. I trained with a different gun and shoot it much better than the Glock. The shoot better part is what I concentrate on. I'm glad I never worked at a one size fits all department.
 
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In the military you are issued a service rifle. It is up to you how well you learn to shoot it. Police departments are no different. You are issued a service weapon. Either learn how to shoot it well, or else purchase something out of your own pocket that you can. Either way, don't cry about it.
 
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