Non-polarized grounded outlets?

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Klutch9

Klutch9

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So back when we bought our house last year (1953 ranch), we found a couple interesting things. Not the least of which was a grounded, but NON-polarized wall outlet. I cannot even find a picture of one, or else I'd post it. But as you can see if you look at any modern outlet, there is a long slot (neutral), small slot (hot) and round slot (earth/ground). Older outlets without the ground socket still had a longer and smaller, or 'polarized' slots for hot and neutral. Some REALLY old outlets without ground had non-polarized hot and neutral slots, both being the smaller size.

Here's the interesting part...

I found one singular outlet in our home that was non-polarized (so two small slots), but it DID have a ground slot also. I don't know when grounded plug became common (maybe 60's or 70's?) but this seems totally impractical, and totally was for us until I replaced it. The only things that I know of that are non-polarized, meaning that the plug has two small pins, are phone chargers and the like (or any other small transformer). Otherwise, everything else, even lamps, are polarized, and for good reason. The aforementioned devices are those that don't need a ground connection. As for devices that DO need a ground connection, I have NEVER seen one that did not have polarized neutral/hot pins. It just seems odd that such an outlet would be made. Have any electricians seen these out there before? I do lots of service work in peoples' homes and I have never seen another one like it.
 
I believe that was true of outlets in my family's house that was wired in 1957. I didn't know about polarized 120vac outlets until much later.
 
Is it in a location where it could be used for a special purpose like a kitchen wall clock or exhaust fan?
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Is it in a location where it could be used for a special purpose like a kitchen wall clock or exhaust fan?


Nope. Just on one of the walls in the living room.
 
Originally Posted By: Klutch9
So back when we bought our house last year (1953 ranch), we found a couple interesting things. Not the least of which was a grounded, but NON-polarized wall outlet. I cannot even find a picture of one, or else I'd post it. But as you can see if you look at any modern outlet, there is a long slot (neutral), small slot (hot) and round slot (earth/ground). Older outlets without the ground socket still had a longer and smaller, or 'polarized' slots for hot and neutral. Some REALLY old outlets without ground had non-polarized hot and neutral slots, both being the smaller size.

Here's the interesting part...

I found one singular outlet in our home that was non-polarized (so two small slots), but it DID have a ground slot also. I don't know when grounded plug became common (maybe 60's or 70's?) but this seems totally impractical, and totally was for us until I replaced it. The only things that I know of that are non-polarized, meaning that the plug has two small pins, are phone chargers and the like (or any other small transformer). Otherwise, everything else, even lamps, are polarized, and for good reason. The aforementioned devices are those that don't need a ground connection. As for devices that DO need a ground connection, I have NEVER seen one that did not have polarized neutral/hot pins. It just seems odd that such an outlet would be made. Have any electricians seen these out there before? I do lots of service work in peoples' homes and I have never seen another one like it.


I kind of think you have it wrong. Homes in the USA use A/C current +/- voltage is supplies on one wire and the "common" connection is connected to all the other wires in the house, including the ground wire at the service panel.
In older homes, outlets never made this distinction, of course new homes do, the larger opening/blade on the plug and outlet is the "common" connection with all wiring in the home, including the ground. The opening with the smaller opening/blade on the plug is the "power side with the A/C current which alternates between + and -

Ugh... after re-reading your post, I see you do mostly have it right, but will leave my post up if it helps anyone else understand better.

But your last two sentences, to clarify to you the common side of the outlet is also a ground, meaning the ground in modern outlets with 3 sockets = 1 the smaller opening delivers the A/C power, the larger opening is the common and the 3rd round opening is the "ground" the 3rd round opening and the larger common opening are all connected together in the service panel and serve the same purpose. So technically all appliances, even though they only have two spades on the plug, they are grounded, the third round socket on the outlet can be looked at as an extra ground, for safety sake in high current applications.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: Klutch9
So back when we bought our house last year (1953 ranch), we found a couple interesting things. Not the least of which was a grounded, but NON-polarized wall outlet. I cannot even find a picture of one, or else I'd post it. But as you can see if you look at any modern outlet, there is a long slot (neutral), small slot (hot) and round slot (earth/ground). Older outlets without the ground socket still had a longer and smaller, or 'polarized' slots for hot and neutral. Some REALLY old outlets without ground had non-polarized hot and neutral slots, both being the smaller size.

Here's the interesting part...

I found one singular outlet in our home that was non-polarized (so two small slots), but it DID have a ground slot also. I don't know when grounded plug became common (maybe 60's or 70's?) but this seems totally impractical, and totally was for us until I replaced it. The only things that I know of that are non-polarized, meaning that the plug has two small pins, are phone chargers and the like (or any other small transformer). Otherwise, everything else, even lamps, are polarized, and for good reason. The aforementioned devices are those that don't need a ground connection. As for devices that DO need a ground connection, I have NEVER seen one that did not have polarized neutral/hot pins. It just seems odd that such an outlet would be made. Have any electricians seen these out there before? I do lots of service work in peoples' homes and I have never seen another one like it.


I kind of think you have it wrong. Homes in the USA use A/C current +/- voltage is supplies on one wire and the "common" connection is connected to all the other wires in the house, including the ground wire at the service panel.
In older homes, outlets never made this distinction, of course new homes do, the larger opening/blade on the plug and outlet is the "common" connection with all wiring in the home, including the ground. The opening with the smaller opening/blade on the plug is the "power side with the A/C current which alternates between + and -

Ugh... after re-reading your post, I see you do mostly have it right, but will leave my post up if it helps anyone else understand better.

But your last two sentences, to clarify to you the common side of the outlet is also a ground, meaning the ground in modern outlets with 3 sockets = 1 the smaller opening delivers the A/C power, the larger opening is the common and the 3rd round opening is the "ground" the 3rd round opening and the larger common opening are all connected together in the service panel and serve the same purpose. So technically all appliances, even though they only have two spades on the plug, they are grounded, the third round socket on the outlet can be looked at as an extra ground, for safety sake in high current applications.


I didn't know there was a +/- 110v and above AC electric - I was taught there is a Hot leg and Neutral and the that AC is alternating current and the Neutral's purpose is to balance the load back to the panel. I know your lower voltage DC has a negative.
 
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: Klutch9
So back when we bought our house last year (1953 ranch), we found a couple interesting things. Not the least of which was a grounded, but NON-polarized wall outlet. I cannot even find a picture of one, or else I'd post it. But as you can see if you look at any modern outlet, there is a long slot (neutral), small slot (hot) and round slot (earth/ground). Older outlets without the ground socket still had a longer and smaller, or 'polarized' slots for hot and neutral. Some REALLY old outlets without ground had non-polarized hot and neutral slots, both being the smaller size.

Here's the interesting part...

I found one singular outlet in our home that was non-polarized (so two small slots), but it DID have a ground slot also. I don't know when grounded plug became common (maybe 60's or 70's?) but this seems totally impractical, and totally was for us until I replaced it. The only things that I know of that are non-polarized, meaning that the plug has two small pins, are phone chargers and the like (or any other small transformer). Otherwise, everything else, even lamps, are polarized, and for good reason. The aforementioned devices are those that don't need a ground connection. As for devices that DO need a ground connection, I have NEVER seen one that did not have polarized neutral/hot pins. It just seems odd that such an outlet would be made. Have any electricians seen these out there before? I do lots of service work in peoples' homes and I have never seen another one like it.


I kind of think you have it wrong. Homes in the USA use A/C current +/- voltage is supplies on one wire and the "common" connection is connected to all the other wires in the house, including the ground wire at the service panel.
In older homes, outlets never made this distinction, of course new homes do, the larger opening/blade on the plug and outlet is the "common" connection with all wiring in the home, including the ground. The opening with the smaller opening/blade on the plug is the "power side with the A/C current which alternates between + and -

Ugh... after re-reading your post, I see you do mostly have it right, but will leave my post up if it helps anyone else understand better.

But your last two sentences, to clarify to you the common side of the outlet is also a ground, meaning the ground in modern outlets with 3 sockets = 1 the smaller opening delivers the A/C power, the larger opening is the common and the 3rd round opening is the "ground" the 3rd round opening and the larger common opening are all connected together in the service panel and serve the same purpose. So technically all appliances, even though they only have two spades on the plug, they are grounded, the third round socket on the outlet can be looked at as an extra ground, for safety sake in high current applications.


No, just no. So very wrong.




The polarized plug came about due to electronics and the required interconnects between them.
 
Originally Posted By: Oildudeny
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: Klutch9
So back when we bought our house last year (1953 ranch), we found a couple interesting things. Not the least of which was a grounded, but NON-polarized wall outlet. I cannot even find a picture of one, or else I'd post it. But as you can see if you look at any modern outlet, there is a long slot (neutral), small slot (hot) and round slot (earth/ground). Older outlets without the ground socket still had a longer and smaller, or 'polarized' slots for hot and neutral. Some REALLY old outlets without ground had non-polarized hot and neutral slots, both being the smaller size.

Here's the interesting part...

I found one singular outlet in our home that was non-polarized (so two small slots), but it DID have a ground slot also. I don't know when grounded plug became common (maybe 60's or 70's?) but this seems totally impractical, and totally was for us until I replaced it. The only things that I know of that are non-polarized, meaning that the plug has two small pins, are phone chargers and the like (or any other small transformer). Otherwise, everything else, even lamps, are polarized, and for good reason. The aforementioned devices are those that don't need a ground connection. As for devices that DO need a ground connection, I have NEVER seen one that did not have polarized neutral/hot pins. It just seems odd that such an outlet would be made. Have any electricians seen these out there before? I do lots of service work in peoples' homes and I have never seen another one like it.


I kind of think you have it wrong. Homes in the USA use A/C current +/- voltage is supplies on one wire and the "common" connection is connected to all the other wires in the house, including the ground wire at the service panel.
In older homes, outlets never made this distinction, of course new homes do, the larger opening/blade on the plug and outlet is the "common" connection with all wiring in the home, including the ground. The opening with the smaller opening/blade on the plug is the "power side with the A/C current which alternates between + and -

Ugh... after re-reading your post, I see you do mostly have it right, but will leave my post up if it helps anyone else understand better.

But your last two sentences, to clarify to you the common side of the outlet is also a ground, meaning the ground in modern outlets with 3 sockets = 1 the smaller opening delivers the A/C power, the larger opening is the common and the 3rd round opening is the "ground" the 3rd round opening and the larger common opening are all connected together in the service panel and serve the same purpose. So technically all appliances, even though they only have two spades on the plug, they are grounded, the third round socket on the outlet can be looked at as an extra ground, for safety sake in high current applications.


I didn't know there was a +/- 110v and above AC electric - I was taught there is a Hot leg and Neutral and the that AC is alternating current and the Neutral's purpose is to balance the load back to the panel. I know your lower voltage DC has a negative.


No.

I can explain it better later but the stuff being posted right now is very wrong.
 
Last edited:
Getting the "right" leg of AC is also important for things like edison sockets-- the outer shell is supposed to be neutral in case you're dumb enough to leave it turned on when you change the light bulb and touch the outer part and a ground simultaneously. To get shocked you'd have to reach all the way in and touch the nub at the bottom by which point you're probably also getting the shell with the side of your finger.

A two-wire polarized lamp cord has a stripe formed in the rubber to keep things kosher.

PS the grounded outlet was invented in 1927, but of course not required until much later:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1672067.pdf
 
AC Alternating Current in your home VS Direct Current in your car. boat motorcycle,

The best source of information is just to use a search engine on the internet, yes, true, the way things are posting is not sounding right. :o)

Hot, Common, Ground,

Ground and Common share the same terminals in your home, office, building electric service panel or better said, the common side is grounded in the panel.

Hot is the alternating current 50 to 60 cycles per second between negative and positive. This is the energized line but you still do not want to put yourself between the neutral line of a circuit and an energized or line in use.

But forget what you read in a form, including my own words and read the complete information from real sources, electricity is not to be played around with knowledge from a forum no less.

Click, AC line and DC

Futhernmore - Click here too
 
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