Non-Cash Adjustment fee 3.5%

[Pew]

So, you’re from that area, you’ve been to Triptych, and you’re familiar with their operation both pre- and post pandemic?

The main source of income for the majority of small businesses changed dramatically during the lockdown. Especially if you tried to operate a small business in the socialist republic of Illinois-Stan.

Most small breweries hopefully had a canning line. That enabled them to provide a product for curbside pickup which, in turn, provided revenue to help them struggle through the complete shi’ite show that was forced upon them. The breweries without canning lines mostly imploded.

I took the picture of the “86 Tipping” because it’s a complete contrast to what the OP was referring to: adding a credit card fee onto your purchase price, then presenting the iPad with a “suggested tip.”

I’ve had great service from the staff behind the bar at Triptych whether I’m simply picking up some four packs to share with my beer nerds in Cincy or I’m having a flight or a pint sitting at the bar.

The “86 Tipping“ actually incentivizes most of us to tip for what turns out to be better service than I’ve received from those businesses that surcharge you for doing business with them.

I don't go to breweries unless they have good food since I don't like alcohol. I do know the area very well, it's only 2 hours away from me and I've been there plenty.

86 tipping idea works well for them because they're a brewery. During the lockdown they sold more to-go can orders than they did internally. Usually the wait staff at small breweries like this are 100% bartenders and bartenders almost always have a tip pool shared with the other bartenders of the shift because they are not assigned a section. So this place's "86 tipping" and increasing the wages isn't a hard thing to do.

Using the "86 tipping" to incentivize you to tip is no different than well....socialism. The point of not sharing tips is to make each server directly responsible for their own sections, behavior towards customers, efforts, and rewards. When I used to be a waiter, I could easily cover an 8-table section during dinner rush with no problem (most restaurants limit to 3-4 tables.) Why would I share my earned tips with a server who can only cover 4 tables or can't act properly to their customers? I have never, ever met a decent server who wanted a tipping pool. The only ones who did were garbage servers. If you're getting better service from 86-tipping "restaurants" (which your example was a brewery, not a traditional restaurant) then by all means, keep going to them. But you assuming no tipping leads to better service is not true and only shows how you don't understand how servers or sit-down restaraunts work.

 

[PimTac]

Inflation - 1 Lb of Boars Head Turkey breast will cost you $14 a pound in Publix
Store brand cold cuts up roughly 75% too in the last 18 months or so

Yep. Those things have really shot up. Even cheese. A two pound block of Tillamook used to be $6.00 or so. Now it’s $10.99. I’m sure shrinkflation is there as well. Besides the smaller bread as mentioned earlier they might be adding less on certain items. It’s behind the scenes so we might not know.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I have been noticing recently that the "cash discoun"t at gas stations is returning. I Just got hit with 4c more a gallon using my CC at an Irving station.

I am speculating there are two things driving this; they want you to go inside the store and buy some of their groceries and day old sushi. Next, possibly they are paying a transaction fee to the CC? In the past I thought at high sales volumes there was no fee to the retailers. IDK.

 

[alarmguy]

I have been noticing recently that the "cash discoun"t at gas stations is returning. I Just got hit with 4c more a gallon using my CC at an Irving station.

I am speculating there are two things driving this; they want you to go inside the store and buy some of their groceries and day old sushi. Next, possibly they are paying a transaction fee to the CC? In the past I thought at high sales volumes there was no fee to the retailers. IDK.

Yes, everyone pays a transaction fee. Small business pays the most and big box retailers the least.
One can expect 1.15% to someone like Walmart and 3.5% to a small business (I owned a small business at one time too)
On top of that there can be other fees from someone such as a processing fee from the company you pay for the equipment and processing to the CC company ... Im out of the loop now but there is a lot on the internet.
There is a reason why some merchants did not accept AMEX (some still do not) as they always had the highest fees but that is mostly all changed now.

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/credit-card-processing-fees/

 

[bunnspecial]

Re: tipping

A lot of my students work as servers, and most agree that they would rather work a tipped job than be paid an hourly wage. I'll emphasize these are strictly informal conversations during labs and other "down time" when I can just chat with them as people. Funny enough too, I've noticed that some of my most pro-tipping students who work as servers are also some of my best students in class-it might not be a stretch to think that their work ethic in class represents their work ethic on the job too.

Of course it's not a perfect system. One local restaurant we frequent has a couple of servers we know well and who take good care of us.

A couple of weeks ago, my wife and I went in to on place on a Friday night. We'd been on the road all day and decided that we wanted a quick and easy dinner, and ended up meeting my wife's sister and her husband there for our meal. This restaurant is hit or miss on whether or not it will be busy in the evening(it has a big lunch crowd) and this particular night they weren't overly busy other than a group of 30 college-age students in the side room.

Our favorite server grabs our table(they don't have assigned tables or areas) but is also the only one working this group of 30. She shows us her order book with 30 separate tickets in it.

Between giving us great service, she's getting run ragged by this group. They finally all get checked out, and she comes over to us at first irate but then nearly in tears that two of the 30 checks had tipped her, and she'd received $8 total in tips after 2 hours of work and almost $500 worth of food.

Let's just say too that...well...she left with a tip from our table that more than made up for her lack of tip from the other. We were happy to do it just because she takes good care of us and could afford to, but it's still bad that one group like that can ruin a night for a server.

Unrelated to that, I rarely get coffee out, but when I do my sister in law has gotten me hooked on a local place that really does have great coffee. I've had students who work there and say their business practices are on the up-and-up too(not always true of businesses like that). One of the things that really impressed me about this place, though, was how they have their tip suggestions set on the POS screen. When you put your card in, the three prominent options are $1, $2, and $3. You can of course decline to tip or do a custom amount, but that impressed me because those numbers seem reasonable coffee shop tips.

 

[Pablo]

Yes, everyone pays a transaction fee. Small business pays the most and big box retailers the least.
One can expect 1.15% to someone like Walmart and 3.5% to a small business (I owned a small business at one time too)
On top of that there can be other fees from someone such as a processing fee from the company you pay for the equipment and processing to the CC company ... Im out of the loop now but there is a lot on the internet.
There is a reason why some merchants did not accept AMEX (some still do not) as they always had the highest fees but that is mostly all changed now.

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/credit-card-processing-fees/

Definitely negotiable. We had a bidding war between Merchants and PayPal. PayPal won then was undercut so we switched

 

[dkryan]

Pew,

I don’t believe I said “no tipping leads to better service.”

I posted that pic because it’s the opposite of the “rip the customer” mentality with the addition of credit card fees on your purchase and the “give us a tip for ordering your own food at our kiosk.”

I can see how the 86 tipping concept would not work in a restaurant since you’re likely to have servers who will do just enough to get by while others shoulder a bigger load.

The next time I’m back in Savoy I’ll stay long enough to have a beer and ask the bartenders how the “86 tipping” is working out for them.

 

[SC Maintenance]

And the IRS wants to tax cash back, don’t know the latest on that

I think that was floated by some congress clown that doesn't understand math. When I buy something its with post tax cash. So if the bank gives me some back its not taxable. Moron.

 

[alarmguy]

I think that was floated by some congress clown that doesn't understand math. When I buy something its with post tax cash. So if the bank gives me some back its not taxable. Moron.

Yeah, I was super annoyed and thought the same, let's hope it doesnt gain traction. Everything I buy is cash back.
What bothers me is the "post tax cash" and why I was concerned... after all off the top of my head is the estate tax, the estate was built by taxpaying citizens, stuff like that, if the public can be convinced and they turn it into a "gray area" ... well. ... we know how that goes with the money grab.

 

[Pew]

Re: tipping

A lot of my students work as servers, and most agree that they would rather work a tipped job than be paid an hourly wage. I'll emphasize these are strictly informal conversations during labs and other "down time" when I can just chat with them as people. Funny enough too, I've noticed that some of my most pro-tipping students who work as servers are also some of my best students in class-it might not be a stretch to think that their work ethic in class represents their work ethic on the job too.

Of course it's not a perfect system. One local restaurant we frequent has a couple of servers we know well and who take good care of us.

A couple of weeks ago, my wife and I went in to on place on a Friday night. We'd been on the road all day and decided that we wanted a quick and easy dinner, and ended up meeting my wife's sister and her husband there for our meal. This restaurant is hit or miss on whether or not it will be busy in the evening(it has a big lunch crowd) and this particular night they weren't overly busy other than a group of 30 college-age students in the side room.

Our favorite server grabs our table(they don't have assigned tables or areas) but is also the only one working this group of 30. She shows us her order book with 30 separate tickets in it.

Between giving us great service, she's getting run ragged by this group. They finally all get checked out, and she comes over to us at first irate but then nearly in tears that two of the 30 checks had tipped her, and she'd received $8 total in tips after 2 hours of work and almost $500 worth of food.

Let's just say too that...well...she left with a tip from our table that more than made up for her lack of tip from the other. We were happy to do it just because she takes good care of us and could afford to, but it's still bad that one group like that can ruin a night for a server.

Unrelated to that, I rarely get coffee out, but when I do my sister in law has gotten me hooked on a local place that really does have great coffee. I've had students who work there and say their business practices are on the up-and-up too(not always true of businesses like that). One of the things that really impressed me about this place, though, was how they have their tip suggestions set on the POS screen. When you put your card in, the three prominent options are $1, $2, and $3. You can of course decline to tip or do a custom amount, but that impressed me because those numbers seem reasonable coffee shop tips.

What happened to your server is just about the worst thing a server can come across so thank you and your family for your generosity.

Pew,

I don’t believe I said “no tipping leads to better service.”

I posted that pic because it’s the opposite of the “rip the customer” mentality with the addition of credit card fees on your purchase and the “give us a tip for ordering your own food at our kiosk.”

I can see how the 86 tipping concept would not work in a restaurant since you’re likely to have servers who will do just enough to get by while others shoulder a bigger load.

The next time I’m back in Savoy I’ll stay long enough to have a beer and ask the bartenders how the “86 tipping” is working out for them.

Understood. I bet it works out great for the Brewery because Champaign is a big college town. College towns aren't very well known for tips so I'd bet the higher-wage/no-tipping is very beneficial to their employees.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Since I started this thread I have been paying a lot more attention. @Cujet youtube post about the money vanishing is spot on.

Been to several places charging cc fees - I look for the sign and most have it. Was at a restaurant that had what looked to be a 2.5% "service charge". I asked the kid at the counter what that was for and he claimed he had no idea it was on everything.

I also was in the big city and a lot of places are "no cash" now. I presume easier to build the 3.5% in than deal with it.

I got a letter from my local water authority that they would now be charging a ACH fee unless you signed up for their new pay portal, I assume they spent a lot of money on establishing. I thought ACH was between banks but maybe its for vendors also. Is $2.50 minimum or 2.95%. I have been paying this bill using BofA bill pay for a decade. I don't know how they pay it - I know they were still mailing my Chase bank mortgage payment via a paper check as of a year ago. Maybe this one is till a paper check? I guess I will see next month. Everyone is getting in on it.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Yeah, I was super annoyed and thought the same, let's hope it doesnt gain traction. Everything I buy is cash back.
What bothers me is the "post tax cash" and why I was concerned... after all off the top of my head is the estate tax, the estate was built by taxpaying citizens, stuff like that, if the public can be convinced and they turn it into a "gray area" ... well. ... we know how that goes with the money grab.

Yep, they will lump it in under the upcoming "wealth tax"

 

[GON]

Inflation - 1 Lb of Boars Head Turkey breast will cost you $14 a pound in Publix
Store brand cold cuts up roughly 75% too in the last 18 months or so
It's really amazing the escalation of prices and as companies try to maintain profits comes surcharges if they can place blame on other companies such as credit card companies and banks.

Some of the very best restaurants that dont need the business refuse credit cards altogether and direct people to the ATM machine in the lobby.

I'd love to see all restaurants go to cash only. The credit card issuers and their processessors think we are addicted to the convenience of the plastic and we are unable to adjust our habits.

Credit card fees for the issuers and processors is money for nothing and the chicks are free.

 

[dishdude]

I'd love to see all restaurants go to cash only. The credit card issuers and their processessors think we are addicted to the convenience of the plastic and we are unable to adjust our habits.

Credit card fees for the issuers and processors is money for nothing and the chicks are free.

I hate cash. It's dirty, inconvenient and runs the risk of being lost. Everything goes on a card, if I lose the card I'm not liable for any charges I didn't make, there's always lucrative rewards and if something goes wrong with my purchase I can initiate a chargeback or utilize buyer protection offered by certain cards.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I'd love to see all restaurants go to cash only. The credit card issuers and their processessors think we are addicted to the convenience of the plastic and we are unable to adjust our habits.

Credit card fees for the issuers and processors is money for nothing and the chicks are free.

I was in the new trendy part of Charlotte NC this weekend - and several of the restaurants had signs saying card only. One even had a big write up about how cashless was safer for everyone or some such drivel.

So unfortunately in this country it seems to be going the other way.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I hate cash. It's dirty, inconvenient and runs the risk of being lost. Everything goes on a card, if I lose the card I'm not liable for any charges I didn't make, there's always lucrative rewards and if something goes wrong with my purchase I can initiate a chargeback or utilize buyer protection offered by certain cards.

You missed the part about your paying 3% more for everything. Whether there is a fee or not its baked in.

 

[dishdude]

You missed the part about your paying 3% more for everything. Whether there is a fee or not its baked in.

I don't care, it is what it is.

 

[alarmguy]

I'd love to see all restaurants go to cash only. The credit card issuers and their processessors think we are addicted to the convenience of the plastic and we are unable to adjust our habits.

Credit card fees for the issuers and processors is money for nothing and the chicks are free.

I like that song, Its burned into my head and also party time of my life!

Ok with that said I use credit cards as a tool. After all they pay me 5% cash back every time we have dinner at a restaurant.
Unless it’s a rare cash only place.

I get it though what you are saying but I’m done trying to save the public from themselves except in my posts and other aspects that I try to educate. Even then at times the people so “conditioned” that I get push back.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I like that song, Its burned into my head and also party time of my life!

Ok with that said I use credit cards as a tool. After all they pay me 5% cash back every time we have dinner at a restaurant.
Unless it’s a rare cash only place.

I get it though what you are saying but I’m done trying to save the public from themselves except in my posts and other aspects that I try to educate. Even then at times the people so “conditioned” that I get push back.

Yes, there is no point in using cash because your already paying the 3% - unless its a cash discount place. So were all sheep now.

3%, after tax, so 4% gross. Over a lifetime - without it you could easily retire a year early.

 

[alarmguy]

....

3%, after tax, so 4% gross. Over a lifetime - without it you could easily retire a year early.

I only heard one other person describe as you did except myself and the other person is a family member.
This whole world has gone nuts with debt. Its all about the payment to the vast majority of consumers, they have no clue how to save up for anything, even when we talk cash back on credit cards, its free money but they just dont get it.

Car Loans, Home improvement loans, for goodness sakes people take out loans for TVs and Appliances and Furniture too, make monthly payments and the flip side is it "only cost this much" the problem with the public, they dont think in AFTER TAX income (edit, that dont take into account their gross income needed then after paying taxes to make the actual loan payment), that is the real cost of a product and if you finance it your not only paying interest but you are paying that interest with AFTER TAX income greatly increasing your true cost.

This stuff drives me nuts but if only for one reason, all the complaining by the public and all the spending and debt by government to placate them. Its sinking our society.

You know, I know Dave Ramsey is extreme but if thick headed people just took a small part of what he preaches and educated themselves, then they can make educated decisions on what works for them and what doesnt. They dont have to live like he preaches but they can learn about money from him.

Same with Mortgage interest, people pay double the price of their home over 30 years because of interest charges (just rough numbers) and those interest charges are AFTER tax income. Debt, debt, debt, we are as immature as a rat in a cage, they will eat themselves so fat until they cant move. Im still waiting for that 45 year mortgage, OMG.