i dont get the 0W20 requirement for the 2GR-FE (2011 sienna). there has been no major changes in that engine in 5 years and it originally reccomended 5w30. that is what it will get once my 5w20 stock runs out. stupid toyota and its lame-o sales pitch.
noisier engine with 0w20
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Originally Posted By: tig1
Is Toyota 0-20 formulated at the same labs as M1 0-20?
It could be. I understand the Toyota 0W-20 has a much higher viscosity index than the Mobil 1 0W-20. Meaning it thickens up less as temperatures drop. I think they're a similar cSt at operating temperatures. CATERHAM has done extensive comparing with various 0W-20 oils and knows all the differences I think.
Is Toyota 0-20 formulated at the same labs as M1 0-20?
It could be. I understand the Toyota 0W-20 has a much higher viscosity index than the Mobil 1 0W-20. Meaning it thickens up less as temperatures drop. I think they're a similar cSt at operating temperatures. CATERHAM has done extensive comparing with various 0W-20 oils and knows all the differences I think.
Originally Posted By: Capa
Actually, there seem to be a lot that say that synthetics make their vehicles noiser and not just Mobil. Most here, also, will tell you that that noise is irrelevant.
Nothing as reassuring as hearing a bunch of metal parts clanging around and grinding.
Actually, there seem to be a lot that say that synthetics make their vehicles noiser and not just Mobil. Most here, also, will tell you that that noise is irrelevant.
Nothing as reassuring as hearing a bunch of metal parts clanging around and grinding.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: tig1
Is Toyota 0-20 formulated at the same labs as M1 0-20?
It could be. I understand the Toyota 0W-20 has a much higher viscosity index than the Mobil 1 0W-20. Meaning it thickens up less as temperatures drop. I think they're a similar cSt at operating temperatures. CATERHAM has done extensive comparing with various 0W-20 oils and knows all the differences I think.
It's the way the Toyo oil is formulated. However M1 0-20 flows faster at very cold temps than Toyo 0-20. At least that's my understanding. Again it's all in the way XM formulates the oil.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Is Toyota 0-20 formulated at the same labs as M1 0-20?
It could be. I understand the Toyota 0W-20 has a much higher viscosity index than the Mobil 1 0W-20. Meaning it thickens up less as temperatures drop. I think they're a similar cSt at operating temperatures. CATERHAM has done extensive comparing with various 0W-20 oils and knows all the differences I think.
It's the way the Toyo oil is formulated. However M1 0-20 flows faster at very cold temps than Toyo 0-20. At least that's my understanding. Again it's all in the way XM formulates the oil.
Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
Originally Posted By: Capa
Actually, there seem to be a lot that say that synthetics make their vehicles noiser and not just Mobil. Most here, also, will tell you that that noise is irrelevant.
Nothing as reassuring as hearing a bunch of metal parts clanging around and grinding.
I know in my engines, that the injectors are very easy to hear with the hood up.
Originally Posted By: Capa
Actually, there seem to be a lot that say that synthetics make their vehicles noiser and not just Mobil. Most here, also, will tell you that that noise is irrelevant.
Nothing as reassuring as hearing a bunch of metal parts clanging around and grinding.
I know in my engines, that the injectors are very easy to hear with the hood up.
Originally Posted By: Mustang_Cougar
Sorry if this has been discussed here, but did this recommendation come from a TSB? And if so, how far back is it spec'd (ie, is it for all 1ZZFE engines, '97-'07)?
I use 0W20 in my 2005 1ZZFE engine.
Sorry if this has been discussed here, but did this recommendation come from a TSB? And if so, how far back is it spec'd (ie, is it for all 1ZZFE engines, '97-'07)?
I use 0W20 in my 2005 1ZZFE engine.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Johnoh
I want to stick with 0w20 to see if there was any mpg difference between 0w20 and 5w30. Toyota claims that there is.
Toyota 0W20 claim
Quote:
More Miles Per Gallon
Toyota 0W-20 synthetic oil can deliver a surprising boost in fuel efficiency, it’s estimated anywhere from 0.4 to 0.6 miles per gallon when compared to conventional or non-synthetic oils.
LOL, they didn't specify what car and compared to what oil.
0.4-0.6 MPG compared to 5W20 would be a lot in Tundra, but nothing if you tested in Prius compared to 5W30.
IMHO, the 1ZZ-FE engine is very noisy and likes heavier oils.
0W20 is OK for city driving, but I would not use it at high speed hwy driving in summer in this car.
Does you car have the revised dipstick with increased oil capacity?
yes. It now takes about 5qts to get to the full line with a new filter.
Originally Posted By: Johnoh
I want to stick with 0w20 to see if there was any mpg difference between 0w20 and 5w30. Toyota claims that there is.
Toyota 0W20 claim
Quote:
More Miles Per Gallon
Toyota 0W-20 synthetic oil can deliver a surprising boost in fuel efficiency, it’s estimated anywhere from 0.4 to 0.6 miles per gallon when compared to conventional or non-synthetic oils.
LOL, they didn't specify what car and compared to what oil.
0.4-0.6 MPG compared to 5W20 would be a lot in Tundra, but nothing if you tested in Prius compared to 5W30.
IMHO, the 1ZZ-FE engine is very noisy and likes heavier oils.
0W20 is OK for city driving, but I would not use it at high speed hwy driving in summer in this car.
Does you car have the revised dipstick with increased oil capacity?
yes. It now takes about 5qts to get to the full line with a new filter.
XOM is responsible for Supertech in the angular bottles........
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
i dont get the 0W20 requirement for the 2GR-FE (2011 sienna). there has been no major changes in that engine in 5 years and it originally reccomended 5w30. that is what it will get once my 5w20 stock runs out. stupid toyota and its lame-o sales pitch.
I switched to PP 5W-20 in my 05 RX with the 3MZ-FE 3.3 Liter motor. Runs great on it! Quiet, smooth, peppier. Dont know what else more I could ask for?
i dont get the 0W20 requirement for the 2GR-FE (2011 sienna). there has been no major changes in that engine in 5 years and it originally reccomended 5w30. that is what it will get once my 5w20 stock runs out. stupid toyota and its lame-o sales pitch.
I switched to PP 5W-20 in my 05 RX with the 3MZ-FE 3.3 Liter motor. Runs great on it! Quiet, smooth, peppier. Dont know what else more I could ask for?
Originally Posted By: tig1
It's the way the Toyo oil is formulated. However M1 0-20 flows faster at very cold temps than Toyo 0-20. At least that's my understanding. Again it's all in the way XM formulates the oil.
It's the other way around. Mobil 1 0W-20 is 44.8 cSt @ 40C and 8.7 cSt @ 100C. Graphed using Widman's viscosity calculator, the cSt @ 0C is about 330 cSt.
Toyota's 0W-20 is 37.4 cSt @ 40C and 8.5 cSt @ 100C. This calculates to about 210 cSt @ 0C.
Toyota's 0W-20 will flow much better at freezing.
It's the way the Toyo oil is formulated. However M1 0-20 flows faster at very cold temps than Toyo 0-20. At least that's my understanding. Again it's all in the way XM formulates the oil.
It's the other way around. Mobil 1 0W-20 is 44.8 cSt @ 40C and 8.7 cSt @ 100C. Graphed using Widman's viscosity calculator, the cSt @ 0C is about 330 cSt.
Toyota's 0W-20 is 37.4 cSt @ 40C and 8.5 cSt @ 100C. This calculates to about 210 cSt @ 0C.
Toyota's 0W-20 will flow much better at freezing.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: tig1
It's the way the Toyo oil is formulated. However M1 0-20 flows faster at very cold temps than Toyo 0-20. At least that's my understanding. Again it's all in the way XM formulates the oil.
It's the other way around. Mobil 1 0W-20 is 44.8 cSt @ 40C and 8.7 cSt @ 100C. Graphed using Widman's viscosity calculator, the cSt @ 0C is about 330 cSt.
Toyota's 0W-20 is 37.4 cSt @ 40C and 8.5 cSt @ 100C. This calculates to about 210 cSt @ 0C.
Toyota's 0W-20 will flow much better at freezing.
According to Catherham, M1 0-20 flows faster below -20 than Toyo 0-20.
Originally Posted By: tig1
It's the way the Toyo oil is formulated. However M1 0-20 flows faster at very cold temps than Toyo 0-20. At least that's my understanding. Again it's all in the way XM formulates the oil.
It's the other way around. Mobil 1 0W-20 is 44.8 cSt @ 40C and 8.7 cSt @ 100C. Graphed using Widman's viscosity calculator, the cSt @ 0C is about 330 cSt.
Toyota's 0W-20 is 37.4 cSt @ 40C and 8.5 cSt @ 100C. This calculates to about 210 cSt @ 0C.
Toyota's 0W-20 will flow much better at freezing.
According to Catherham, M1 0-20 flows faster below -20 than Toyo 0-20.
Originally Posted By: tig1
According to Catherham, M1 0-20 flows faster below -20 than Toyo 0-20.
Do you have the reference from him? And are we comparing SN to SN (I was)? I guess it's possible, but unless I'm misunderstanding it, I don't see how the graphs could reverse themselves like that.
According to Catherham, M1 0-20 flows faster below -20 than Toyo 0-20.
Do you have the reference from him? And are we comparing SN to SN (I was)? I guess it's possible, but unless I'm misunderstanding it, I don't see how the graphs could reverse themselves like that.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: tig1
According to Catherham, M1 0-20 flows faster below -20 than Toyo 0-20.
Do you have the reference from him? And are we comparing SN to SN (I was)? I guess it's possible, but unless I'm misunderstanding it, I don't see how the graphs could reverse themselves like that.
He has mentioned it several times before. Has to do with the MRV being lower than Toyo and other oils of the same wt. This implies a superior base stock.
Here is the link. MRV 9200. Very low.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-20_Advanced_Fuel_Economy.aspx
Originally Posted By: tig1
According to Catherham, M1 0-20 flows faster below -20 than Toyo 0-20.
Do you have the reference from him? And are we comparing SN to SN (I was)? I guess it's possible, but unless I'm misunderstanding it, I don't see how the graphs could reverse themselves like that.
He has mentioned it several times before. Has to do with the MRV being lower than Toyo and other oils of the same wt. This implies a superior base stock.
Here is the link. MRV 9200. Very low.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-20_Advanced_Fuel_Economy.aspx
Last edited:
Thanks. Do we know the MRV of the Toyota oil?
For all this talk of M1 and Toyota 0W-20, nobody seems to care that Mobil 1 is Supertech in the XOM bottles.
As to the 0W-20 thing, isnt it still true that different oils transmit noise differently and the AFE oils (M1 0W-20 included) have made a lot of people's engines noisier?
M1 may be a good oil but it seems like "Your engine either likes it or it doesnt," Same as any other oil.
As to the 0W-20 thing, isnt it still true that different oils transmit noise differently and the AFE oils (M1 0W-20 included) have made a lot of people's engines noisier?
M1 may be a good oil but it seems like "Your engine either likes it or it doesnt," Same as any other oil.
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
As to the 0W-20 thing, isnt it still true that different oils transmit noise differently and the AFE oils (M1 0W-20 included) have made a lot of people's engines noisier?
Mobil 1's AFE 0W-20 is among the quieter of oils I've had in either of my current cars. Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 is, I think, a hair quieter in the Acura...haven't tried it yet in the Honda. It could be true that some people find it noisier, but I haven't.
As to the 0W-20 thing, isnt it still true that different oils transmit noise differently and the AFE oils (M1 0W-20 included) have made a lot of people's engines noisier?
Mobil 1's AFE 0W-20 is among the quieter of oils I've had in either of my current cars. Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 is, I think, a hair quieter in the Acura...haven't tried it yet in the Honda. It could be true that some people find it noisier, but I haven't.
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Originally Posted By: 45ACP
For all this talk of M1 and Toyota 0W-20, nobody seems to care that Mobil 1 is Supertech in the XOM bottles.
Did you fall off the bus this morning? You honestly think that XOM just slaps M1 in the SuperTech bottles and doesn't make it to "Walmart" spec's?
For all this talk of M1 and Toyota 0W-20, nobody seems to care that Mobil 1 is Supertech in the XOM bottles.
Did you fall off the bus this morning? You honestly think that XOM just slaps M1 in the SuperTech bottles and doesn't make it to "Walmart" spec's?
tig1 - You have stated on more than one occasion that you won't/haven't used anything but M1 0w20 in the cars in your signature. Thats fine but...how do you know the vehicles are quieter? Compared to what? You wont use anything else so how do you really know?
Here's a comparison from 3 weeks ago. Put 1/2 quart of Kreen in a neighbors 07 I4 Camry running M1 0w20 / 5w30 for the majority of its life. As somebody that uses M1 I was astonished how much quieter that car got withing 5 mins of adding Kreen to the M1. I thought the car was quiet till that happened, clearly there was top engine noise. It disappeared so fast after adding Kreen I'm sure M1 oil is noisy (on that car). Again I'm a M1 user, plan to stay with it, but the "louder" thing is for real. Why M1 resonates like that I don't know.
Here's a comparison from 3 weeks ago. Put 1/2 quart of Kreen in a neighbors 07 I4 Camry running M1 0w20 / 5w30 for the majority of its life. As somebody that uses M1 I was astonished how much quieter that car got withing 5 mins of adding Kreen to the M1. I thought the car was quiet till that happened, clearly there was top engine noise. It disappeared so fast after adding Kreen I'm sure M1 oil is noisy (on that car). Again I'm a M1 user, plan to stay with it, but the "louder" thing is for real. Why M1 resonates like that I don't know.
Tig1, I found this:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1985094
MRV @ -40C is 18,000 cP for Toyota 0W-20.
I see in there how Caterham speculated that the Toyota oil "hits a brick wall" at -30C. Down to freezing, the Toyota oil appears to thicken significantly less than the Mobil 1, but at some point between 0C and -40C, it thickens significantly more than the Mobil 1.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1985094
MRV @ -40C is 18,000 cP for Toyota 0W-20.
I see in there how Caterham speculated that the Toyota oil "hits a brick wall" at -30C. Down to freezing, the Toyota oil appears to thicken significantly less than the Mobil 1, but at some point between 0C and -40C, it thickens significantly more than the Mobil 1.
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