I'm going to try the Amsoil 0w30 for next my oil change and see how the UOA comes back. I have been using Joe Gibbs LS30 and the TBN is at 1.7 after 4600 miles which concerned me. Nothing else was out of spec on the 2 UOA's I have ran on this new engine.
No 0w- in high performance engines?
- Thread starter ChristianReske
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Originally Posted by ChristianReske
@ Paulfix: Yes, but i want to have a oil with a HTHS above 3,5 in my engines, even if it is only for peace of mind.
But yes, modern engines perform well with thin oils, but they are desigend from the factory for use of this thin oils.
Even 5 years ago no-one would consider a 0W20 oil for a performance turbo application. Many would still consider it 'too thin' for sustained hard driving (say on a race circuit.)
But material science, engine design and machining quality has all definitely improved.
I use Helix Ulta ECT C2/C3 0W30 in pretty much everything of mine that's street driven. It'a a think 30W oil with a +200VI, HTHS >3.5 and + 500ppm Boron. Saab turbo, GTiR pulsar, 180b datto, it's all good.
Jordan
@ Paulfix: Yes, but i want to have a oil with a HTHS above 3,5 in my engines, even if it is only for peace of mind.
But yes, modern engines perform well with thin oils, but they are desigend from the factory for use of this thin oils.
Even 5 years ago no-one would consider a 0W20 oil for a performance turbo application. Many would still consider it 'too thin' for sustained hard driving (say on a race circuit.)
But material science, engine design and machining quality has all definitely improved.
I use Helix Ulta ECT C2/C3 0W30 in pretty much everything of mine that's street driven. It'a a think 30W oil with a +200VI, HTHS >3.5 and + 500ppm Boron. Saab turbo, GTiR pulsar, 180b datto, it's all good.
Jordan
I think whoever says 0W-x is unsuitable in high-performance engines is worrying about the wrong end of the viscosity rating.
Originally Posted by vavavroom
I think whoever says 0W-x is unsuitable in high-performance engines is worrying about the wrong end of the viscosity rating.
I remember the first time I asked at a parts store when they were going to get 0W-30 the response from the employee was "Isn't that like water"?
And I suppose many don't even think that water (like all fluids) changes viscosity with temperature.
I think whoever says 0W-x is unsuitable in high-performance engines is worrying about the wrong end of the viscosity rating.
I remember the first time I asked at a parts store when they were going to get 0W-30 the response from the employee was "Isn't that like water"?
And I suppose many don't even think that water (like all fluids) changes viscosity with temperature.
@ vavaroom:
No, the 0w-40 "haters" say that 5w- 10w- offers more protection to the engine because of it thicker base oil, the VI improvers in 0w-40 shears down quickly and that the flow of a oil in a engine at startup is not so important.
To me, 0w-40 even in summer reduces start wear, fills the bill for a 40 weight and if it shears down, i just change it more often.
The answer of the 0w-40 haters then is: "You dont understand.."
No, the 0w-40 "haters" say that 5w- 10w- offers more protection to the engine because of it thicker base oil, the VI improvers in 0w-40 shears down quickly and that the flow of a oil in a engine at startup is not so important.
To me, 0w-40 even in summer reduces start wear, fills the bill for a 40 weight and if it shears down, i just change it more often.
The answer of the 0w-40 haters then is: "You dont understand.."
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by ChristianReske
To me, 0w-40 even in summer reduces start wear
I'm interested in what you have to back that statement.
I think you don't understand the process, ir are presenting unfounded conjecture.
I was interested in learning about that myself.
Originally Posted by ChristianReske
To me, 0w-40 even in summer reduces start wear
I'm interested in what you have to back that statement.
I think you don't understand the process, ir are presenting unfounded conjecture.
I was interested in learning about that myself.
Originally Posted by ChristianReske
@ vavaroom:
No, the 0w-40 "haters" say that 5w- 10w- offers more protection to the engine because of it thicker base oil, the VI improvers in 0w-40 shears down quickly and that the flow of a oil in a engine at startup is not so important.
To me, 0w-40 even in summer reduces start wear, fills the bill for a 40 weight and if it shears down, i just change it more often.
The answer of the 0w-40 haters then is: "You dont understand.."
I believe that in summer temps a typical 5W-30 would probably flow faster than a 0W-40 if you're worried about startup wear.
That being said, I'm using Mobil 1 0W-40 in my WRX.
@ vavaroom:
No, the 0w-40 "haters" say that 5w- 10w- offers more protection to the engine because of it thicker base oil, the VI improvers in 0w-40 shears down quickly and that the flow of a oil in a engine at startup is not so important.
To me, 0w-40 even in summer reduces start wear, fills the bill for a 40 weight and if it shears down, i just change it more often.
The answer of the 0w-40 haters then is: "You dont understand.."
I believe that in summer temps a typical 5W-30 would probably flow faster than a 0W-40 if you're worried about startup wear.
That being said, I'm using Mobil 1 0W-40 in my WRX.
Originally Posted by vavavroom
I think whoever says 0W-x is unsuitable in high-performance engines is worrying about the wrong end of the viscosity rating.
I was skiing on some very viscous water the other day...
;^)
I think whoever says 0W-x is unsuitable in high-performance engines is worrying about the wrong end of the viscosity rating.
I was skiing on some very viscous water the other day...
;^)
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by ChristianReske
To me, 0w-40 even in summer reduces start wear
I'm interested in what you have to back that statement.
I think you don't understand the process, ir are presenting unfounded conjecture.
Even in summer, a 0w-40 flows better at startup then a 10w-40, to my surely limited knowledge, according to the Kinematic Viscosity datas.
The difference in summer is very, very, small of course, but there is a difference.
Originally Posted by ChristianReske
To me, 0w-40 even in summer reduces start wear
I'm interested in what you have to back that statement.
I think you don't understand the process, ir are presenting unfounded conjecture.
Even in summer, a 0w-40 flows better at startup then a 10w-40, to my surely limited knowledge, according to the Kinematic Viscosity datas.
The difference in summer is very, very, small of course, but there is a difference.
Originally Posted by ChristianReske
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by ChristianReske
To me, 0w-40 even in summer reduces start wear
I'm interested in what you have to back that statement.
I think you don't understand the process, ir are presenting unfounded conjecture.
Even in summer, a 0w-40 flows better at startup then a 10w-40, to my surely limited knowledge, according to the Kinematic Viscosity datas.
The difference in summer is very, very, small of course, but there is a difference.
Depends on "summer" temperature. 10W-40 is a poor comparison because very few would use that these days.
I looked up the Mobil 1 US specifications, and their 0W-40 has a higher viscosity at 40ºC than their "FS" 5W-30 common in the US. It's a little bit lower than the "ESP" 5W-30 sold in the US. But in the end it's probably not enough to really make a difference with longevity. The other issue is that there's a lot between what happens at "0W" temperatures and at 100ºC.
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by ChristianReske
To me, 0w-40 even in summer reduces start wear
I'm interested in what you have to back that statement.
I think you don't understand the process, ir are presenting unfounded conjecture.
Even in summer, a 0w-40 flows better at startup then a 10w-40, to my surely limited knowledge, according to the Kinematic Viscosity datas.
The difference in summer is very, very, small of course, but there is a difference.
Depends on "summer" temperature. 10W-40 is a poor comparison because very few would use that these days.
I looked up the Mobil 1 US specifications, and their 0W-40 has a higher viscosity at 40ºC than their "FS" 5W-30 common in the US. It's a little bit lower than the "ESP" 5W-30 sold in the US. But in the end it's probably not enough to really make a difference with longevity. The other issue is that there's a lot between what happens at "0W" temperatures and at 100ºC.
Originally Posted by ChristianReske
Even in summer, a 0w-40 flows better at startup then a 10w-40, to my surely limited knowledge, according to the Kinematic Viscosity datas.
The difference in summer is very, very, small of course, but there is a difference.
Couple of points:
* what "feels like" it should be fact, and what's actually fact are often different.
* there's not really any difference in time when it;'s delivered by a positive displacement pump pushing oil into the galleries, when the oil is well within it's pumpable range (you mentioned summer, there's no difference);
* The parts are still coated and lubricated in a residual film, which is tenacious, and much thicker than operating temperature, thye are not dry, and reliant on "flow".
* Flow doesn't lubricate anything;
* The correct term is "warmup wear", it's not the instant between hitting the key and oil hitting the components, the wear is taking place while the engine warms, and with all the lubricated bits having oil. The sequence IVA, industry standard wear test, the engine is running, and fully lubricated.
Even in summer, a 0w-40 flows better at startup then a 10w-40, to my surely limited knowledge, according to the Kinematic Viscosity datas.
The difference in summer is very, very, small of course, but there is a difference.
Couple of points:
* what "feels like" it should be fact, and what's actually fact are often different.
* there's not really any difference in time when it;'s delivered by a positive displacement pump pushing oil into the galleries, when the oil is well within it's pumpable range (you mentioned summer, there's no difference);
* The parts are still coated and lubricated in a residual film, which is tenacious, and much thicker than operating temperature, thye are not dry, and reliant on "flow".
* Flow doesn't lubricate anything;
* The correct term is "warmup wear", it's not the instant between hitting the key and oil hitting the components, the wear is taking place while the engine warms, and with all the lubricated bits having oil. The sequence IVA, industry standard wear test, the engine is running, and fully lubricated.
So, back to 15w- oil then? if there is no difference or benefit between 0w and 15w?
Belive me, i allready was aware of a lot of the points you wrote down, but its sometimes hard to wrote lenghty answers as a non native english speaker. Therefore, i keep my answers sometimes short.
And i dont agree with you in some points.
Belive me, i allready was aware of a lot of the points you wrote down, but its sometimes hard to wrote lenghty answers as a non native english speaker. Therefore, i keep my answers sometimes short.
And i dont agree with you in some points.
Originally Posted by ChristianReske
So, back to 15w- oil then? if there is no difference or benefit between 0w and 15w?
Belive me, i allready was aware of a lot of the points you wrote down, but its sometimes hard to wrote lenghty answers as a non native english speaker. Therefore, i keep my answers sometimes short.
And i dont agree with you in some points.
I believe it might be important in winter temperatures. And it creates more drag (lower fuel economy) when warmed up.
Aren't cold starts are more about metal expansion?
So, back to 15w- oil then? if there is no difference or benefit between 0w and 15w?
Belive me, i allready was aware of a lot of the points you wrote down, but its sometimes hard to wrote lenghty answers as a non native english speaker. Therefore, i keep my answers sometimes short.
And i dont agree with you in some points.
I believe it might be important in winter temperatures. And it creates more drag (lower fuel economy) when warmed up.
Aren't cold starts are more about metal expansion?
Originally Posted by ChristianReske
So, back to 15w- oil then? if there is no difference or benefit between 0w and 15w?
Belive me, i allready was aware of a lot of the points you wrote down, but its sometimes hard to wrote lenghty answers as a non native english speaker. Therefore, i keep my answers sometimes short.
And i dont agree with you in some points.
Which one(s) don't you agree with, and what is the basis ?
No, saying "back to 15W" is a strawman argument....although 15W30 would be in my garage if I could find a 15W30 GrIII with HTHS>3.5
You need the "W" rating appropriate for your ambient to prevent damage.
OEMs use the "W" rating to help warmup fuel economy.
So, back to 15w- oil then? if there is no difference or benefit between 0w and 15w?
Belive me, i allready was aware of a lot of the points you wrote down, but its sometimes hard to wrote lenghty answers as a non native english speaker. Therefore, i keep my answers sometimes short.
And i dont agree with you in some points.
Which one(s) don't you agree with, and what is the basis ?
No, saying "back to 15W" is a strawman argument....although 15W30 would be in my garage if I could find a 15W30 GrIII with HTHS>3.5
You need the "W" rating appropriate for your ambient to prevent damage.
OEMs use the "W" rating to help warmup fuel economy.
0w40 is preforming great in my 2.7 ecoboost. Doesn't shear as fast. And on a fullsize truck have seen no loss in fuel economy. Still floating in the low 20mpg.
Have a thread in the bypass filter section, analysis results per 1k miles. Currently at 3k but will continue to test until I see a reason to change.
Have a thread in the bypass filter section, analysis results per 1k miles. Currently at 3k but will continue to test until I see a reason to change.
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