Nissan Ester 5W30-'08 Infiniti G37, 4.5k mi...Bad.

[JonnyO03]

Gents,

---> UOA on tinypic: http://i39.tinypic.com/xdavro.jpg

I need some advice from the quorum. Took my car to the dealer after this UOA, and their response was, in a nutshell, "don't see/hear anything wrong...so see how it goes". Yeah. Anyhow, comments from Blackstone as follows:

Originally Posted By: Blackstone Labs
"Something has happened in the last 6 months that has affected your engine's wear. Iron, from steel parts like bearings, cylinders, rotating shafts, or the valve train, significantly increased, indicating excess wear and the possibility of a mechanical problem. Lead, from bearings, increased ten-fold. Silicon is dropping more slowly than normal, so check the air filter. It may be too dirty for continued use. This oil's viscosity measured in the 5W/20 range. The TBN was 2.6. Track time is hard duty; suggest more frequent oil changes. Try 2,000 miles next time and check back."


My comments: While this oil was in the car, I only took it to the track (road course) once, and the car had the ECU reprogrammed to fiddle with the valvetrain (eek). Otherwise it was uneventful city/suburban driving.

Bold emphasis is theirs.
-------------------------------------------------------------
MI/HR on oil - 4,502 mi
MI/HR on car - 15,341 mi
Sample date - 09/29/09
Oil added - 0 quarts (0 quarts)

aluminum - 7
chromium - 0
iron - 86
copper - 16
lead - 20
tin - 0
molybdenum - 314
nickel - 0
manganese - 2
silver - 0
titanium - 0
potassium - 3
boron - 27
silicon - 25
sodium - 3
calcium - 2048
magnesium - 10
phosphorus - 717
zinc - 824
barium - 0

SUS Viscosity @ 210'F - 53.0
cSt Viscosity @ 100'C - 8.18
Flashpoint in 'F - 385
Fuel % - Antifreeze % - 0.0
Water % - 0.0
Insolubles % - 0.3
TBN - 2.6


Links to Previous UOAs threads for this car (didn't post 3rd fill):
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...034#Post1209034

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...172#Post1209172

UOA on tinypic: http://i39.tinypic.com/xdavro.jpg

 

[JAG]

To be on the safe side in case this becomes a warranty matter, I'd ask Blackstone to delete the comment about track duty. Your UOA history may come in handy if that is done.

The results are disturbing. There are major spikes in iron and lead without any signs of significant dirt or coolant ingestion or major fuel dilution. The viscosity in all the UOAs are on the low side.

I'd do another UOA in 2K miles or so. Good luck.

 

[d00df00d]

Some of this could be break-in; it's possible that the engine is now producing particles in a different range of sizes such that overall wear is down but Blackstone is seeing more of it.

The shearing worries me for sure, though. I've read that Nissan's "Ester Oil" is not synthetic, and that the ester part only refers to an additive. Maybe it's just not up to the task.

 

[saaber1]

Ouch! Metals were all trending down prior to this UOA. Why was silicon so high on previous UOAs? Are you running an aftermarket air filter?

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: saaber1
Why was silicon so high on previous UOAs?

Leaching from gaskets maybe?

 

[aquariuscsm]

Imo G35s,G37s,and Z33`s need thicker oils ala 40 wt. I`m willing to bet the 5W30 was too thin for tracking.

 

[REDDOG]

I would get Terry Dyson to take a look at this if it were mine. There is something going on and he will be able to tell you what and how to deal with it if action is required.

REDDOG.

 

[buster]

Interesting. I am not familiar with this engine.

Quote:
I only took it to the track (road course) once


That could be enough for the jump. How did you break-in the engine?

 

[Audi Junkie]

300mg/kg moly is a band-aid for a bad engine design.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Imo G35s,G37s,and Z33`s need thicker oils ala 40 wt. I`m willing to bet the 5W30 was too thin for tracking.


5W30 is recommended, more specifically, the Genuine Nissan Ester Oil.

Originally Posted By: REDDOG
I would get Terry Dyson to take a look at this if it were mine. There is something going on and he will be able to tell you what and how to deal with it if action is required.

REDDOG.


He won't know, nor will Nissan listen to him. Sorry, but save your money.

I wonder if the valvetrain reflash had something to do with this wear pattern.

It's also possible that Blackstone mixed up the samples.

Regardless, I would not put too much weight on this UOA. It is only one sample, and we all know that UOAs are not always good indicators of wear. To be honest, I wouldn't worry one bit and just keep driving.

 

[addyguy]

Okay, I'm not sure about how bad the wear is in this sample....but I'm loving the add-pack on that oil! Bring on the moly!!!

 

[FZ1]

Hard driving,alterations,and break in, can do that to you. Drive it easy and get those wear metals outta there sooner.

 

[whitesands]

Iron went up but still way down from the first UOA...Lead went up....Big drop in copper and silicon in every report...Still a new engine and wear metals tend to be a bit higher when new and factor in the track day and it all looks completely normal...Even with just one day at the track the heavy throttle and high rpm that vehicles are exposed to can really send the wear numbers up...

I would just go to a shorter interval for this particular oil under normal duty and if doing a track day shorten it a tad more...Do one more OCI without any track days and just normal driving and the wear numbers will probably go way back down...

 

[Brons2]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
300mg/kg moly is a band-aid for a bad engine design.


...which this car's engine certainly is not.

 

[REDDOG]

Look at the jump in lead and iron. Track days don't lead to metal jumps like that unless there is a serious inadequacy there somewhere. Have Blackstone rerun the data to make sure the numbers are correct. It could be as simple as a reaction to the esters in this oil. But we really don't know-we are all just guessing. Paying a few bucks to someone who does know could end up saving a lot of money and worry. I'm guessing this unit was not cheap-I certainly wouldn't want to gamble with it.

The idea a jump in metals like this is not indicative of something going on is pure nonsense. As is the idea that Terry wouldn't know the cause...

REDDOG

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: REDDOG
Have Blackstone rerun the data to make sure the numbers are correct.

Not a bad idea.


Originally Posted By: REDDOG
It could be as simple as a reaction to the esters in this oil.

Also not a bad idea.


Originally Posted By: REDDOG
But we really don't know-we are all just guessing.

Agreed.


Originally Posted By: REDDOG
The idea a jump in metals like this is not indicative of something going on is pure nonsense. As is the idea that Terry wouldn't know the cause...

Disagreed. Terry could make a MUCH better educated guess, but it's not like he could know instantly and in great detail.

That said, it certainly wouldn't be a bad thing to have his advice. So I guess I agree on that general point.

 

[badtlc]

As stated, if you really want to find out what is going on with the "OIL" terry dyson is amazing. He is really expensive so getting blackstone to verify the results and running another shorter OCI before going to Terry might be a better route.

 

[d00df00d]

I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't state that. I think Terry really can glean good information about what's going on in the engine, at least when you buy a real Dyson Analysis.

Also, having Blackstone re-run the tests only verifies the numbers they got. It's not the same thing as getting an interpretation of those numbers.

 

[il_signore97]

Having had this happen to my car before (although not nearly as serious), I can offer my opinion. Take it for what it's worth...

If at any time the ECU reprogramming caused the engine to run very rich, numbers like this report are quite possible. You will never see a fuel percentage in a Blackstone report unless there is actual fuel present in the sample that was sent to them. So, if there was fuel dilution occuring, but the fuel was burned off prior to sending the sample, then you'll just see the residual damage to the oil with no indication of fuel.

I see a low flashpoint, reduced viscosity, high bearing wear, high iron wear, and no indication of coolant or dirt ingestion. To me, that could suggest fuel dilution. I'm not saying that it is definitely the problem, but it is something to look into for lack of any better ideas.

Do you have any other mods (besides the ECU reflash device)?

 

[buster]

That is definitely a possibility.