Nissan Ester 5W30-'08 Infiniti G37, 4.5k mi...Bad.

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Originally Posted By: Brons2
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
300mg/kg moly is a band-aid for a bad engine design.


...which this car's engine certainly is not.

It's is a bad engine design. People that are familiar with Infiniti/Nissan already know this. That's why Nissan came up with this magic ester oil to try to stop some of the engine knock! All of the V-8 Infiniti engines 02-up has serious oil consumption issues with the designers trying to squeeze HP out of those motors.
 
Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
That's why Nissan came up with this magic ester oil to try to stop some of the engine knock!

No. The ester additive was chosen to work with the DLC coating in the valvetrain.

Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
All of the V-8 Infiniti engines 02-up has serious oil consumption issues with the designers trying to squeeze HP out of those motors.

The Infiniti G37, like all Infinitis with "37" in their name, has a V6, not a V8.

The VQ35 (3.5L V6) did have oil consumption issues, and that was introduced in 2002. Maybe that's what you mean? Either way, the VQ37 (e.g. in the G37) is practically an all-new engine. I don't think the same thing applies.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
That's why Nissan came up with this magic ester oil to try to stop some of the engine knock!

No. The ester additive was chosen to work with the DLC coating in the valvetrain.

Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
All of the V-8 Infiniti engines 02-up has serious oil consumption issues with the designers trying to squeeze HP out of those motors.

The Infiniti G37, like all Infinitis with "37" in their name, has a V6, not a V8.

The VQ35 (3.5L V6) did have oil consumption issues, and that was introduced in 2002. Maybe that's what you mean? Either way, the VQ37 (e.g. in the G37) is practically an all-new engine. I don't think the same thing applies.

Well buddy, you might want to read up why they chose to use the Ester based oil with DLC. Or better yet, please read mutiple complaints of engine tick/knock with that engine. I'm very familiar with the issues.

Also I know what 35/37 and 45 means in the Infiniti line up. I know that 35/37 is V-6 and 45 is a V-8. I specifically stated that the 02-up V-8's were bad design engines that has oil consumption issues. Seeing that the G37 is a new model, I thought that it was understood that it didn't fall in the 2002 range.
 
Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
Well buddy, you might want to read up why they chose to use the Ester based oil with DLC. Or better yet, please read mutiple complaints of engine tick/knock with that engine. I'm very familiar with the issues.

Tick or knock?

Knock normally means either slight detonation of the air/fuel mixture or a sound associated with a bad bottom end. Neither of those is a problem with the VQ37.

Ticking in the valvetrain is a different thing, which to my knowledge has been attributed to whether or not the oil being used can properly work with the DLC. Nissan Ester Oil is made to address that issue by... working properly with the DLC.


Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
Also I know what 35/37 and 45 means in the Infiniti line up. I know that 35/37 is V-6 and 45 is a V-8. I specifically stated that the 02-up V-8's were bad design engines that has oil consumption issues. Seeing that the G37 is a new model, I thought that it was understood that it didn't fall in the 2002 range.

Then why bring it up when it is not what we are talking about? If there is a relationship, what is it?
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
Well buddy, you might want to read up why they chose to use the Ester based oil with DLC. Or better yet, please read mutiple complaints of engine tick/knock with that engine. I'm very familiar with the issues.

Tick or knock?

Knock normally means either slight detonation of the air/fuel mixture or a sound associated with a bad bottom end. Neither of those is a problem with the VQ37.

Ticking in the valvetrain is a different thing, which to my knowledge has been attributed to whether or not the oil being used can properly work with the DLC. Nissan Ester Oil is made to address that issue by... working properly with the DLC.


Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
Also I know what 35/37 and 45 means in the Infiniti line up. I know that 35/37 is V-6 and 45 is a V-8. I specifically stated that the 02-up V-8's were bad design engines that has oil consumption issues. Seeing that the G37 is a new model, I thought that it was understood that it didn't fall in the 2002 range.

Then why bring it up when it is not what we are talking about? If there is a relationship, what is it?

Ok, I'll stop here if you think that ester oil has solved the issues with that engine. A simple Google will solve that. And for the second part of your statement, it's simple!!! I was speaking about the bad engine designs from the Infiniti line up including the G37 engine! Stop assuming...it's really not that hard to understand.
 
Where did all that moly come from?? I thought my reading on the ester oil indicated that the moly was not good for the DLC.
 
Id agree that Terry Dyson should be involved. Especially if the engine ends up eating itself with further UOAs like this. His expertise would be a great help should you get to any sort of litigation. Id also remove the ECU flash for the time being to help under warranty and keep with the Nissan Ester oil to CYA. Having tracked several cars now and taken UOAs I disagree that this was a track even induced blip. A retest in 2-4K by Terry and an interpretation of previous UOAs is probably your best bet at the moment.
 
Forgive me, Jonny0003 I got lost in the linking round robin and can't find the comments on the previous UOA. I was looking to see if THIS UOA was the first with the Nissan ester in use.

That could have been the only thing to change ..and as another poster suggested, it might just be stuff kicked up from break in ..or some part of it.
 
i have the VK engine in my FX, which is the 8 cylinder derivative of the VQ. i can only speak for this engine, but i have had much better luck with M1 TDT than i did with M1 0w40. currently running a change of Delvac1 in it. if you could do it without warranty issues (and at this change rate you should be able to) i would try either TDT or RotellaT 5w40.

OTOH, i never saw iron THIS bad. i agree that something bad is happening here...
 
Dang...didn't expect such a thorough response. Give me some time to catch up. (grabs a beer)
 
Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
Originally Posted By: Brons2
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
300mg/kg moly is a band-aid for a bad engine design.


...which this car's engine certainly is not.

It's is a bad engine design. People that are familiar with Infiniti/Nissan already know this. That's why Nissan came up with this magic ester oil to try to stop some of the engine knock! All of the V-8 Infiniti engines 02-up has serious oil consumption issues with the designers trying to squeeze HP out of those motors.


Oil consumption =! valvetrain noise.

I owned a VK, didn't have any troubles, other than high fuel consumption when I put the pedal to the metal. :D
 
Originally Posted By: JAG
....Good luck.
Thanks!

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Some of this could be break-in....

....The shearing worries me for sure, though.
If it's still break-in - hmmm. I hope it drops quick. Good point on the shearing - I may try to use something more shear resistant, but considering this situation may have warranty implications, I want to make sure my service dept is onboard with what I do/choose. Want to have them on my side, you know?

Originally Posted By: saaber1
Are you running an aftermarket air filter?
No aftermarket filter - car is totally stock. Minus consistent, painstaking detail work :)

Originally Posted By: REDDOG
I would get Terry Dyson to take a look at this if it were mine.
Thanks, I'll definitely keep Dyson in mind.

Originally Posted By: buster
How did you break-in the engine?
For break-in I followed the manufacturer recommendations: During the first 1,200 mi - no full throttle, no more than 4,000 rpm, made sure to vary rpms/gears/speeds all the time, and avoided quick starts/hard braking. I rose above those limitations over time. But tried to be gentle overall until past 10k mi. single day of track wasn't until around 12k mi.

Originally Posted By: The Critic

I wonder if the valvetrain reflash had something to do with this wear pattern.
That's one of my top questions as well. I may consider asking them to reverse the changes, if able. For everyone's info, the ECU reflash was a manufacturer recommendation in a TSB due to valvetrain noise.

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Okay, I'm not sure about how bad the wear is in this sample....but I'm loving the add-pack on that oil! Bring on the moly!!!
Haha. I could do a VOA on the Nissan Ester if a lot of folks are still interested - I have a half-quart open (~6 mos old)...

Originally Posted By: whitesands

...Do one more OCI without any track days and just normal driving and the wear numbers will probably go way back down...
Good thoughts. Thanks - I hope it was just more initial wear. I'm definitely planning a short OCI (car sat in the garage all winter), and there was no track time last year, so hopefully you're right.

Originally Posted By: REDDOG
Have Blackstone rerun the data to make sure the numbers are correct.
Didn't even know BSLabs would do a re-run. Good idea.

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Also, having Blackstone re-run the tests only verifies the numbers they got. It's not the same thing as getting an interpretation of those numbers.
Understood - though I admit I don't know how much additional detail Dyson adds over the BSLabs report.

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Do you have any other mods (besides the ECU reflash device)?
I'll keep fuel dilution on the list.
No mods at all - car is totally stock. The ECU flash was part of a factory TSB due to valvetrain noise.

Originally Posted By: VG33ER
Some interesting parallels with my post and lead levels in my Nissan here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1832402#Post1832402
Wow, def let us know how it goes.

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Forgive me, Jonny0003 I got lost in the linking round robin and can't find the comments on the previous UOA. I was looking to see if THIS UOA was the first with the Nissan ester in use.

That could have been the only thing to change ..and as another poster suggested, it might just be stuff kicked up from break in ..or some part of it.
Gary - yup, this was the first UOA with the Nissan Ester. I really hope you're right and it was just some later break-in. The engine's oil UOA history is as follows:

(1) factory fill
(2) Dealer Valvoline Dino
(3) Penzoil Yellow bottle Dino
(4) Nissan Ester Dino
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: JonnyO03
I may try to use something more shear resistant, but considering this situation may have warranty implications, I want to make sure my service dept is onboard with what I do/choose. Want to have them on my side, you know?

IIRC, the warranty requirements for your car are very broad. You'll want to check to be sure, but you should have a lot of oils to choose from while satisfying the exact language of the warranty.

The service department being "on board" might be another story. They typically are not very well informed on these matters, but YMMV. If you do get their support, try to get that in writing.


Originally Posted By: JonnyO03
I could do a VOA on the Nissan Ester if a lot of folks are still interested - I have a half-quart open (~6 mos old)...

That would be awesome! When you do it, make sure to note any dates or serial numbers on the bottle if you can.


Originally Posted By: JonnyO03
I admit I don't know how much additional detail Dyson adds over the BSLabs report.

Terry Dyson is an independent lubrication consultant.

If you ask him to interpret your Blackstone report, he will use his expertise and database and might glean more info about your car and the oil than we could.

If you get a full-on analysis from him, his lab will do a MUCH bigger array of tests with better equipment (which lets him make a much more thorough interpretation), and the ability to follow up with him by email as much as you want and discuss some more advanced and indepth topics with him and others on his weblog.


Originally Posted By: JonnyO03
Gary - yup, this was the first UOA with the Nissan Ester. I really hope you're right and it was just some later break-in. The engine's oil UOA history is as follows:

(1) factory fill
(2) Dealer Valvoline Dino
(3) Penzoil Yellow bottle Dino
(4) Nissan Ester Dino

It's not unusual to see wear metals levels spike when you switch oils. See how the oil does on your next change (keep it relatively short) and go from there.
 
This sorta stuff would occur on occasion with a switch to Redline. We haven't seen it in a while and it didn't happen all the time. It's a YMMV deal with high ester oils. I guess it could have been attributed to the higher moly content in Redline, but I'm sure that it's not limited to just that.
 
Originally Posted By: REDDOG
I would get Terry Dyson to take a look at this if it were mine. There is something going on and he will be able to tell you what and how to deal with it if action is required.


I agree 100%. Getting Terry to interpret this would be well worth the cost.
 
First of all the engine is somewhat new then the programming can add to the wear and the track use can add to the high wear.i could be how it is driven or it could be the engine. Just an opinion. Yeah, keep using the same oil as not to change the readings from the different oils. Keep receipts.
 
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