Nightmare of modern coolants.

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Originally Posted By: CivicFan

All these proprietary coolants are getting ridiculous.


So TRUE.
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I've gone to Peak Global Lifetime for ALL the vehicles that I have to maintain. That covers Honda, Toyota, Subaru, GM, Chrysler and Ford models.

I'm NOT worried. I think most of these proprietary coolants are another way to make some $$ for the stealerships.

I REFUSE to buy any 50/50 mix coolants (talk about another ripoff)
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So for me, a case of Peak Global for $10 a gallon full strength at Napa works for this guy...
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
So, my Honda requires a low silicate coolant. Almost impossible to find an aftermarket replacement in retail outlets.


Low or NO Silicate for the Honda? Low-silicate fluids are extremely plentiful (G-05, Peak Global Lifetime, etc.). Zero-silicates are also out there (Zerex Asian Vehicle formula, for example).
 
i think all anti-freeze that is silicated even traditional Green is low silicate now. Peak Global is no silicate and doesn't contain any inorganic inhibitors. Kind of like Dexcool, which is another "choice" lol.

If I was changing the coolant on a Honda or any Japanese car I'd probably trust Peak Global, but I'd just get the OE or Zerex Asian and do radiator drains or just drain the block and get most all of the old out.
 
all these blue, red, pink, green, yellow coolant. it's all some kind of dexcool variation but dyed to a different color.
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Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I'm sure Chris gets plenty of business from customers using these fine superior coolants. How can it be otherwise? There are no "old green" OEM coolants out there, are there?
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Actually there are. AZ sells traditional green under it's own name, and Advance sells Peak Traditional green. But, the universals, generally yellowish in color, now predominate the majority of coolants at AAP, AZ, O'R and Wally World.



..and which OEM's spec these fluids on currently produced vehicles??
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I probably should have worded it differently. I didn't mean that old green wasn't available.
 
Yeah, after I posted and reread your post, I surmised that you meant, currently comes as OE. Nope, there are none of those to my knowledge.

To the topic, someone once posted the question, are all vehicle engines now made with such different materials, that different coolant types are required/recommended for each one? Does make it seem that the car manufacturers are trying to promote their own proprietary coolants.

But, I'd never say it was a conspiracy.
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Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
There are no "old green" OEM coolants out there, are there?
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My Kia and Isuzu both use regular green. I use NAPA's low silicate version for annual radiator drain-and refills.

Since you missed it first time around.....
Both had low silicate "old green" cooler as factory fills.
After 8 years Isuzu's cooling system still looks great.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
There are no "old green" OEM coolants out there, are there?
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I would define the old green as not just American green but also an inorganic/non-organic coolant (IAT-silicated, phosphated or bot plus varuous other inorganic inhgibitors). I take you to also mean any factory filled, so I'm not sure there are any OEM automotive ones currently, but I think there some HD ones. I'm not a HD mechanic, but as I understand it Cummins had a bad experience with Dexcool and they specify an inorganic.

Now if you are talking about OEM brand service coolant that are the old green I think Ford still caries American green. Toyota and the likes still sell an IAT, the red Longlife etc. And of course some older vehicles are still around like pre-02 Fords or whatever else that were FF with old green.

What makes it more complicated is that the old green like Peak and Zerex is American green and silicated and phosphated. Japanese coolant, like Toyota red Longlife, for the most part are non-silicate but phosphated otherwise an IAT and similar to American green. And the older European coolant is silicated but not phosphated but was an IAT.

So if you wanted to split hairs you could say only American cars used or were FF with old green, bt now of course they all use an OAT or HOAT. But when servicing that is splittng hairs because most Japanese cars were refilled with silciated old green and European cars serviced with it to despite the phosphates without much problems.

What it comes down to there is IAT (putting aside silicated and phosphated) and there's OAT. OAT has caused some gasket problems and sludging problems that none of the IATs did, but that may be more of an 2-EHA problem than an OAT problem.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
...but I'd just get the OE or Zerex Asian and do radiator drains or just drain the block and get most all of the old out.


+1 for me.

Add me to the believers that mixing chemistry can be a bad thing. I had an '00 Maxima that had a LL fluid as FF. I had the dealer do a drain and fill at 3 years(45,000), then another at 5 years(82,000) right before I sold to a friend. A year later he was on vacation and had overheating problems. Was finally diagnosed as a PLUGGED radiator(yes he was able to examine it). There's no way this should have happened to him.

A few years later I was discussing the chemistry issue with the dealer's service writer, and he admitted that they were using a non-proprietary coolant for a few years. They only stopped using it when they and the Toyota dealer up the street had many radiator isuues using the same coolant. They use only proprietary now.
 
That's interesting. If I had to take a guess I bet they were using a dexclone. Dexclones can and do slug in cap on the radiator systems.

It's a little late but I really fubared my first sentence on the previous post lol. It should've read, "I would define the old green as not just American green but also an inorganic/non-organic coolant (IAT-silicated, phosphated or both plus various other inorganic inhibitors)."
 
Who knows what the Nissan dealer was using, could have been traditional silicated green? I've heard of Nissan dealers doing that, since their own coolant is green, instead of a non silicated formula which is what Nissan's formula is. Any point about what coolant did what is pure speculation.

Now if the dealer just did a radiator drain, which is what I'd believe, then they likely didn't get all coolant out, only about half. Any coolant could fail under those conditions, especially if mixing chemistries. So blaming any Long Life coolant is wrong. Clearly, that is the dealer's incompetence.

When I've done my Altima, with the universal LL's I've done a complete flush of the system, and I've had no issues. System is clean as a whistle. Even the instructions of those coolants say, if you want the LL benefits you must flush the entire system. Very clear.

With Nissan though, the Long Life or Exetended Life or Lifetime is moot, because Nissan calls for 2yrs/30k intervals on all subsequent coolant service.

Your issue sounds more like a dealer problem, than any specific coolant issue.
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Who knows what the Nissan dealer was using, could have been traditional silicated green? I've heard of Nissan dealers doing that, since their own coolant is green, instead of a non silicated formula which is what Nissan's formula is. Any point about what coolant did what is pure speculation.


Yeah but Sayjac it is not speculation that Green anti-freeze is not known to gel up and Dexcool is. Most source say Green and OAT and HOAT are compatible. Also if Nissan has a short change interval than they most likely aren't using a HOAT and Green should've been fully compatible. In all likely hood the dealer was using a Dexcool.

Quote:
Now if the dealer just did a radiator drain, which is what I'd believe, then they likely didn't get all coolant out, only about half. Any coolant could fail under those conditions, especially if mixing chemistries. So blaming any Long Life coolant is wrong. Clearly, that is the dealer's incompetence.


But this is speculation as well. As I explained above it might not even been necessary for the dealer to have gotten all the old out. The dealer might have drained the block too. Or more likely they used a coolant exchanger and got all the old out and exchanged with some aftermarket coolant.


Quote:
When I've done my Altima, with the universal LL's I've done a complete flush of the system, and I've had no issues. System is clean as a whistle. Even the instructions of those coolants say, if you want the LL benefits you must flush the entire system. Very clear.


Right Dexcool can look good if no air gets in the system and the gaskets are compatible. It doesn't always gel all the time, just that it can and has. It doesn't always eat gasket but it can and has. The gasket deterioation can be a very slow process and one that most never realize or don't know why it happened.


Quote:
With Nissan though, the Long Life or Exetended Life or Lifetime is moot, because Nissan calls for 2yrs/30k intervals on all subsequent coolant service.

Your issue sounds more like a dealer problem, than any specific coolant issue.


That makes it sound like Nissan was using an IAT. But even if Nissan was FF with an HOAT, reliable sources say that anti-freeze types are compatible. An HOAT is basically mixing IAT and OAT. Anyway true we don't know what the coolant was or whether the dealer was using an exchanger, but dexcool is about the only coolant known to gel. That it doesn't do it all the time doesn't mean non-pressurized reservoirs system are not susceptible to it happening. I've seen it happen personally many times.
 
Actually the poster never used the term "gel", he said plugged. I've seen radiators using silicated traditional green get plugged.

And Chris from Apple Valley Ca. who posts here, posted a pic and thread of a radiator that plugged/failed early using low silicated G-05. It happens.

Mixing silicated green with Nissan which clearly says it's is non silicated, and saying "most source" might say are compatible isn't logical. I wouldn't mix them, and I've never seen that traditional green is recommended as adding to a modern FF engine, including Nissan. I have read though where some Nissan dealers were using it because it was green and that's the descriptor used in the owners manual. And, I've got nothing against traditional green.

Without knowing what coolant was used and whether it was a complete drain and immediately blaming a Long Life universal is less than objective. I have ~72k on an 03 Nissan with two flushes, and ~96k on Tacoma, using them in non pressurized tanks, with no issues. Another poster qship, has over 200k using them with no issues.

I get it, you don't care for the universals using 2eha, that's cool. OTOH, based on my experience I'm not chicken little when it comes to using the Long Life all makes coolants. But, I've always done my own work and complete flushes, so I know what's been done. The poster doesn't really know what they did, or what they used. Just knows the radiator failed early with dealer service, for some unknown reason. To eliminate doubt, dealer should have used Nissan, especially for what I bet they charged him. Still sounds more like a stealership issue to me.

But back to the topic, I agree with many posters here though, proprietary coolant is a racket.
 
What I meant by gel, the dexcool gel will plug radiators. And of course we don't know the whole story but it's probably unlikely a Nissan dealer would use Green, G-05 or any silicate coolant but instead a non-phospate universal dexclone. I think what Chris has posted is more a hard water issue and if hard water was this dealer's problem then Nissan proprietary coolant would probably be phosphated and still gave issues.

I don't think silicates or mixing coolants generally clogs radiators. It's the dexclones manufactures themselves saying they can safely be mixed with anything.

You're right I don't think dexclones are universal coolants. I think the system has to be dexcool "proof" (won't allow air in the system and compatible gaskets) either by design or happenstance for it to work without risks. Then it does work well.

I've seen total exchanges with the dexclones sludge or gel before. Anyway I didn't mean to try to start a debate. I just think it should be said that these dexclones also have the oxidation and plasticizer potential that dexcool does. And everyone should make their own descision with that in mind.

Sayjac, I know you don't want to believe it but had your cars' coolant level dropped from a leak you might have experienced sludging. Apparently in your vehicles the gaskets weren't susceptible to being deteriorated but it's really hard to know that's always the case.

I agree all these proprietary coolants are a racket. I think it's kind of messed up that dexclone is being marketed as the predominate universal though too. I also really question that it's really necessary for Asian formula to only be sold as a pre-mix.
 
Didn't realize this would generate quite this much discussion. I do know I asked for a drain and fill. I suspect that it was a radiator drain only, but since I didn't watch - I don't know.

I don't know what the replacement fluid was, only that it was locally available in bulk, and it was green. I also know that the Nissan and Toyota dealers, about three blocks from each other, were both using the same bulk fluid, and both stopped using it after replacing radiators.

I believe the issue was that the dealers were using a replacement fluid of different chemistry - without completely flushing the systems. I think they did this because they bought into the "All Makes - All Models" mantra.

The service writer did tell me they have had virtually no problems since switching back to Nissan's fluid. They also now have a BG coolant exchange unit that they push fairly hard.

Even after this, I was still a little surprised when I inquired of the Nissan parts guy about the Nissan fluid - he said "ain't nuthin special about it, coolant's coolant."
 
Aside from warranty, screw it.. Just add whatever green coolant you can find and be done with it.

My Saturn came with Dexcool back in the day. Whats in there now? Not Dexcool. There are no issues that I can see.
 
Even OEM coolant at dealer prices isn't bad when you change the coolant what, every 50,000-100,000 miles (or maybe I'm spoiled by Toyota's Super Long-Life Coolant [pink])? Not all that expensive.
 
Originally Posted By: heypete
Even OEM coolant at dealer prices isn't bad when you change the coolant what, every 50,000-100,000 miles (or maybe I'm spoiled by Toyota's Super Long-Life Coolant [pink])? Not all that expensive.


Better price is something other than Toyotas over priced 50/50 Pink mix every 50/100k miles.

I will not reward rip-offs if I have a choice.
 
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