New Truck - Go with Diesel or....Gas model? Ford 3.5 Turbo took a dump.

[dlundblad]

A new diesel with emissions will be more complex and $$$ than any TT engine IMO.

 

[wemay]

I'd go with a Titan.

Ask him to visit "I do Cars" on YouTube where all these engines are torn down (no frills). He'll see the complexity there. Disregard that all the teardowns are damaged engines.

 

[demarpaint]

Ford and GM are the only options? That should narrow it down plenty for him, especially if he’s going to take your advice and stay away from any turbos and the coyotes.
You want suggestions? Ram with a 5.7l or a 6.4l. I will say that I am biased though.

That would be my choice as well, or figure out how to get it to @clinebarger . With the money saved over the other shop it would be well worth it, and I'm 100% sure the job will be done right.

 

[sopususer]

Power Train Warranty. 5 years and 60,000 miles?

That's what I was thinking and wondering about, too. ????

 

[MParr]

Well... I'm sure I'm going to open-up a can of worms here. In a nutshell, I am trying to help-out a buddy that owns a 2019 Ford 150 with the 3.5L Twin Turbo and 59k miles.

Last week, he called me for help and pulled-over on the highway because of a high temperature reading. Checked coolant level and there was practically zero coolant left in the recovery tank. We added a full gallon of new coolant and temps got back to normal. He caught it just in time. Not only that, every time he started the truck, he heard a 'knocking sound" (Which was determined today to be cam phasers and timing chain "slap".)

Anyhow... the truck is very well maintained and only has 59k miles. He just came back from a reputable shop and got an estimate of almost $6k to replace and fix the water pump, timing chain and more... He's not happy and asked me what I would do. (I told him I would never have purchased a F150 with the Coyote V-8. Turbos and that boosted engine are a joke for long term.)

Sooooo.... He's looking at another Ford or GMC with two options - V8 or Diesel powered. No interest in any "Turbo" BS... Any suggestions?

I told him I didn't know much about the Diesel choices and was unsure if Ford offered a V-8 in any of their models (2022/2023)?

What stands-out for reliability these days? He tows less than 9,000lbs and needs to know what his best option is. NO TURBO's for him anymore.

Thanks!

Ford has a 5 year 60,000 mile power train warranty. Based on your post, the vehicle falls into that category.

 

[Astro14]

First, why isn’t this covered under warranty? It’s a four year old truck.

So, is he going to fix this and then sell it? Let Ford fix this and then sell it?

If it were mine, I’d fix it. $4-6,000 to repair a truck on which you know the rest of the history seems reasonable for a four year old truck in today’s market.

Buying a new truck because “doesn’t trust” seems like a great way to throw away $$.

Continuing to drive with an overheating engine is a good way to damage any engine, and I’m not sure that this failure is entirely the engine’s fault, there is some operator fault as well.

“No turbo anything” rules out all the diesels and leaves you with the Chevy, Ram or Titan V-8.

 

[atikovi]

I am trying to help-out a buddy that owns a 2019 Ford 150 with the 3.5L Twin Turbo and 59k miles.

I told him I would never have purchased a F150 with the Coyote V-8.

HUH? Those are two different engines.

 

[HemiBenny]

HUH? Those are two different engines.

I read that as well. I figured that maybe he didn’t quite word it right and voted against the ecoboost AND the 5.0l. That’s why I said that he’s narrowed it down plenty for his friend if his only options are Ford and GM,..it would have to be a GM or a Ford 7.3l.

 

[dnewton3]

Allow me to dissect your post ... I find a lot to call into question ... This will come off as harsh, but I think some tough talk is due.

... pulled-over on the highway because of a high temperature reading. Checked coolant level and there was practically zero coolant left in the recovery tank. We added a full gallon of new coolant

Anyhow... the truck is very well maintained

The two statements above are contradictory; how is a "well maintained" truck a gallon low on coolant? Any engine that low on coolant had one of two things happen:
- rapid coolant loss over a very short time; went ignored because ya can't miss a gallon of coolant sitting on the driveway
- slow loss of coolant over long duration of time; went ignored because no one bothered to check the coolant bottle in 4 years
Either way, this coolant condition was not "well maintained".

Not only that, every time he started the truck, he heard a 'knocking sound" (Which was determined today to be cam phasers and timing chain "slap".)

This is not unheard of in the 3.5L EB engines. While not "common", it's a known thing. However, this doesn't happen overnight. Every time he started the truck and heard the noise, he was ignoring an obvious problem. I don't believe this truck is as "well maintained" as you're claiming it to be; I think it's been grossly ignored.

2019 Ford 150 ..... and only has 59k miles.

He just came back from a reputable shop and got an estimate of almost $6k to replace and fix the water pump, timing chain and more...

As has been said, a 4 year old truck with 59k miles SHOULD fall under warranty; he shouldn't have to pay anything.
He shouldn't be at a "reputable shop"; he should be going to the dealer to get warranty coverage.

(I told him I would never have purchased a F150 with the Coyote V-8. Turbos and that boosted engine are a joke for long term.)

I think you have your statement mixed up? You meant to say you WOULD have purchased a 5.0L?
Further, the turbos didn't have anything to do with the timing set problems. And there are plenty examples of high-mileage turbo engines fairing quite well. Your comments are anecdotal.

Sooooo.... He's looking at another Ford or GMC with two options - V8 or Diesel powered. No interest in any "Turbo" BS... Any suggestions?

I suggest you review your comment; any modern diesel is turbo.

I told him I didn't know much about the Diesel choices

Not to be rude, but that much is plainly obvious.

and was unsure if Ford offered a V-8 in any of their models (2022/2023)?

5.0L in the F150; 6.8L/7.3L in the SDs.
You clearly know how to get on the internet, because you're here on BITOG. Ever occur to look at the website for Ford and see what options are out there?

He tows less than 9,000lbs and needs to know what his best option is ...

Most any full-size modern truck should handle that just fine. Towing capacities are well stated on the OEM websites.

Thanks!

You're welcome.


SUMMARY
It's my opinion that your buddy should be getting his advice from somewhere else. And if you're a good friend you'll admit that to him.

 

[MNgopher]

Should be at a dealer being repaired under the 5/60 powertrain warranty, period. Your buddy should be out nothing here.

Not complicated or hard to figure out what to do, unless there is more to the story or its all a line to get people worked up.

 

[jeepman3071]

A new diesel with emissions will be more complex and $$$ than any TT engine IMO.

+1

If he thinks a turbo gas engine is expensive a modern diesel will be a big surprise.

 

[demarpaint]

Should be at a dealer being repaired under the 5/60 powertrain warranty, period. Your buddy should be out nothing here.

Not complicated or hard to figure out what to do, unless there is more to the story or its all a line to get people worked up.

Good points.

 

[mattd]

Timing chains for the 3.5/3.7 duratrac are on big back order. I think the ecoboosts use the same one? Not 100% sure. FWIW.

That does seem very high for labor cost. JMO. Basically doing a 3.5 chain driven water pump. I do them for a little more than 1/3 of that.

 

[I<3oil]

The shop is stacking labor.....That's the ONLY way they could get $6,000 for this job!

Guess they're doing 1 bank, Putting it all back together, Then tearing in down again to do the other bank to justify the double labor??

My opinion is.....If you don't like to (Or can't do) engine work, Then don't quote engine work.....Send them elsewhere!


I'll do that job for $2,500 Labor with customer supplied parts (OE Ford ONLY!)

I love this forum sometimes, that's awesome

 

[thastinger]

The shop told him tonight they cannot even locate a timing chain "Kit/part" due to availability. ??? From what I understand, the 3.5L has a bunch of non-conventional engineering going on which means digging-in and removing quite a bit of stuff to get at everything. $1,900+ in Timing chain parts alone. Labor is like $3,200.

Water pump and thermostat is around $520 (parts) (No labor charge applied as they will be there anyway..) This and a couple other things.. Just shy of $6k...

Jeez. I bought a new block from FRPP and built a long block 2V 5.4 that can hold 1200HP for less money than that.

 

[CKN]

Forgot about the 5/60 warranty. The truck should be towed to the dealer.

 

[cptbarkey]

2021 or older Tundra.
2012 or older pre-DI Chevy anything. 6.0 gas 3/4 ton is ideal.
Titans are ok but i'm not a fan of DI, so only the first gen Titan is on my good list.

Ford makes utter trash these days.

 

[JGmazda]

They all break. The Chevy/GMC will too. I'd shop around for another price quote and fix what he has. All he would likely be doing is trading one set of problems for another. A $6k problem sucks but I don't know that spending tens of thousands on a replacement truck is the best solution to that problem.

That's a good statement... I told him his decision is his own, however, buying a new vehicle is expensive and it would depend highly on what he obtain locally and what type of deal is out there. We shall see what he finds....

 

[JGmazda]

"Tows less than 9000lbs."

How often does he tow?
2021 and older Toyota Tundra with MPFI 5.7L V8. Towing capacity iirc about 10200lbs. Newer models are twin turbo V6.
Same reason I bought my Tundra. Didn't want a Eco, DI and/or Turbo.

If I was towing 9000lbs regularly or daily, I would buy a diesel. Otherwise Tundra will do the job if you don't run into payload issues.

Good point. He's in construction and does not tow every day, but the times he does tow, he wants the capacity. Good points on the Toyota V8. Thanks

 

[JGmazda]

Ford has a 5 year 60,000 mile power train warranty. Based on your post, the vehicle falls into that category.

Really... Wow..okay... I was wondering if there was a warranty on this. I'll ask him to check it!