Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Do you have ANY proof they are using Toyota 0w20? I am just going with what Nissan, Honda do. They have their own oils and I know for a FACT they don't use them in my vehicles. Please correct me if you have evidence they are going to use Toyota 0W20. I am open to being "educated" by you.
Nowhere in my response (or yours) did we say anything about a specific brand of oil. There was only a reference by you, trying to falsely lead the OP into believing that he should be certain that the dealer will be putting garbage into his engine.
The dealer is suppose to be using 0w-20 in this engine, as that is what they will be reimbursed for under the free maintenance plan for vehicles that require 0w-20. Of course, we do not know if it will be Toyota, Castrol, Pennzoil, Mobil, or perhaps another brand of 0w-20. It is completely uncalled for you to consider all Toyota dealerships to be scammers who will not be using the correct oil that they are being paid for. Regardless of which brand of 0w-20 the dealer uses, it is likely to be a synthetic product which is the correct type, grade and quality of oil approved for the OEM drain interval in this application.
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Second If you would like to do 10K OCI's with a brand new engine that is great. I just look at the comments of BlackStone, Dyson, Polaris and when wear metals are high they usually make a note of it. I guess then, it is wrong for me to assume a bunch of Fe, Si, Cu etc. are a perfect part of a healthy engine. Isn't that why guys like Doug Hillary say UOA's are worthless w/o particle counts...because you can't see all the abrasives in the engine? You tell me, would you want high metal/silicon circulating in your engine? Go for it if you do.
Blackstone is not an accredited lab, even though this lab has a huge following on this site. Their comments are often unprofessional, downright silly and there have been numerous threads on this forum that have called to question their accuracy.
Dyson, while highly regarded by some of us original members, contracts his services to a 3rd party lab which promises to use more advanced analysis equipment. However, Dyson's track record has been questionable. He has previously recommended the use of additives that are of questionable value, and has recommended products and intervals that have not been proven by any large scale field testing. He always cites "proprietary data," but the last that I checked, he does not run a lab or any type of business that allows him to conduct large-scale testing of lubricants. If he is really the lubricant expert he claims he is, then he should be working at a major oil company.
The ppm of Fe, Cu, and Si are in very small amounts. Most of the harmful chunks are caught by the oil filter. There has not been any evidence that has proven slightly elevated (usually less than 200ppm, right?) levels of wear metals to be abrasive to a new engine. If an initial oil change is required, then the manufacturer will recommend/require it-- just like BMW does with their M-series engines.
Some manufacturers, such as Honda, actually recommend against an early oil change as their factory fill contains higher levels of anti-wear additive for additional wear protection during break-in. This additive may be part of the special factory fill, or may be from the assembly lube used during engine assembly, or both. Lastly, it is safe to assume that most engines on the road today never saw frequent oil changes during the beginning of their life, nor did they see an early initial oil change, and you cannot prove that those practices contributed to reduced engine life as we rarely hear about engines wearing out.
Do you have ANY proof they are using Toyota 0w20? I am just going with what Nissan, Honda do. They have their own oils and I know for a FACT they don't use them in my vehicles. Please correct me if you have evidence they are going to use Toyota 0W20. I am open to being "educated" by you.
Nowhere in my response (or yours) did we say anything about a specific brand of oil. There was only a reference by you, trying to falsely lead the OP into believing that he should be certain that the dealer will be putting garbage into his engine.
The dealer is suppose to be using 0w-20 in this engine, as that is what they will be reimbursed for under the free maintenance plan for vehicles that require 0w-20. Of course, we do not know if it will be Toyota, Castrol, Pennzoil, Mobil, or perhaps another brand of 0w-20. It is completely uncalled for you to consider all Toyota dealerships to be scammers who will not be using the correct oil that they are being paid for. Regardless of which brand of 0w-20 the dealer uses, it is likely to be a synthetic product which is the correct type, grade and quality of oil approved for the OEM drain interval in this application.
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Second If you would like to do 10K OCI's with a brand new engine that is great. I just look at the comments of BlackStone, Dyson, Polaris and when wear metals are high they usually make a note of it. I guess then, it is wrong for me to assume a bunch of Fe, Si, Cu etc. are a perfect part of a healthy engine. Isn't that why guys like Doug Hillary say UOA's are worthless w/o particle counts...because you can't see all the abrasives in the engine? You tell me, would you want high metal/silicon circulating in your engine? Go for it if you do.
Blackstone is not an accredited lab, even though this lab has a huge following on this site. Their comments are often unprofessional, downright silly and there have been numerous threads on this forum that have called to question their accuracy.
Dyson, while highly regarded by some of us original members, contracts his services to a 3rd party lab which promises to use more advanced analysis equipment. However, Dyson's track record has been questionable. He has previously recommended the use of additives that are of questionable value, and has recommended products and intervals that have not been proven by any large scale field testing. He always cites "proprietary data," but the last that I checked, he does not run a lab or any type of business that allows him to conduct large-scale testing of lubricants. If he is really the lubricant expert he claims he is, then he should be working at a major oil company.
The ppm of Fe, Cu, and Si are in very small amounts. Most of the harmful chunks are caught by the oil filter. There has not been any evidence that has proven slightly elevated (usually less than 200ppm, right?) levels of wear metals to be abrasive to a new engine. If an initial oil change is required, then the manufacturer will recommend/require it-- just like BMW does with their M-series engines.
Some manufacturers, such as Honda, actually recommend against an early oil change as their factory fill contains higher levels of anti-wear additive for additional wear protection during break-in. This additive may be part of the special factory fill, or may be from the assembly lube used during engine assembly, or both. Lastly, it is safe to assume that most engines on the road today never saw frequent oil changes during the beginning of their life, nor did they see an early initial oil change, and you cannot prove that those practices contributed to reduced engine life as we rarely hear about engines wearing out.
