New Snowblower/small engine QUESTION!!!!

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rg200amp

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Hey guys. Srry to make a new topic, but i have a quick question that i have been thinking about.

I am getting a new snow blower. It is a Sno-Tec by Ariens. It has a 208cc LCT engine.

So. It is getting delivered this week. I am planning on doing the following:

I am going to fill it up with fuel and Sta-bil marine formula (for it's E10 benefits) and run it for about a half an hour (with redline 5w30). I then will drain the oil (and the wear/break in metals) put fresh oil in (Redline) then top off the fuel after adding a double dose of Stay-bil Red in. Then I am going to run it again for about 5-10 min. to get the treated fuel through the lines/carb, and again top off the fuel.

OR-

Should I just leave the snowblower, untouched, in the box until winter?

I think I only have a 30 day return policy, so that, along with the fact I just want to tinker with it(lol), is why I want to get everything going as soon as it arrives.

What say you?? Get it operating now, or wait till winter. . .

It does have a one year warranty. And I used my Mastercard, so they add another year to that. . . So, I guess I dont "need" to test it. But I dont want to be worrying about a down blower come this winter.
 
Most Sno-throws have a winterized engine that limits the volume of air flowing across the fins of the air cooled engine. On my Ariens, (very old) the instructions are to remove the air restrictions if operating above a certain temp.You may want to limit running time to a very few minutes to prevent seizing the engine. IMO 30 min. would be too long. I know it's difficult to not play with a new toy, but I would wait for cooler weather. FWIW-Oldtommy
 
Originally Posted By: 2oldtommy
Most Sno-throws have a winterized engine that limits the volume of air flowing across the fins of the air cooled engine. On my Ariens, (very old) the instructions are to remove the air restrictions if operating above a certain temp.You may want to limit running time to a very few minutes to prevent seizing the engine. IMO 30 min. would be too long. I know it's difficult to not play with a new toy, but I would wait for cooler weather. FWIW-Oldtommy


True. I will point a big garage fan at the engine.

And it's going to have Redline 5w30 in the sump, so im not worried about overheating. . . .

I may run it for 10 min. let it rest for a half an hour, then do another 10-15min. . . .

Something easy to do while im kicking back a few beers!!! lol
 
There's no harm in running it, provided you keep it stored somewhere clean and dry and keep whatever fuel left in it, treated or run it dry.

As far as I know, the only real difference these days between a 'regular' and 'snow' engine is; There's no aircleaner assy on a snow engine and the exhaust will typically be shrouded around the carb. As far as cooling goes, they all still have a flywheel fan and shrouding to blast air around the jug.

Just don't run it in a dust cloud.

Nice snowblower BTW! These are quite the bargain IMO.

Joel
 
I see nothing wrong with what you plan on doing only I'd do it a little differently. I'd mix my double Stabil dose into the gas for the very first run of the engine. Get it hot, fog it, drain the oil to remove wear metals etc, and refill it with the fresh oil and leave it till winter. I once used fogging oil, but found MMO to be just as good, and in older engines if makes for a nice piston soak while the engine is in storage. After I fog it, and change the oil I wait for it to cool, remove the plug and get a little MMO into the cylinder, put the plug back in, pull the cord [don't start it] and put it away till winter. Make sure the tank is full.


Restarting the engine and running a short period with the fresh oil might build up a little condensation which I'd rather not have in a sump with just changed oil. That's why I suggested the above.
27.gif
JMO
 
You aren't going to have any engine problems with a new blower. Pouring fuel in for the first time will just start the 15 year clock on the carb needing rebuilding. Also, the gas you dump in now will have low RVP and be hard starting when it's cold.

You might have problems with a slipping belt or slipping drive that only show up under load. So just screwing around in your driveway won't really prove anything, anyway.

Who does the warranty service? Do you have to drag the thing to a Home Depot and wait weeks?
 
I wouldn't do a thing until winter hits. Those things were designed to sit in warehouses for half the year, so what's a few months in your garage/basement?
 
Leave it alone until you use it this winter. Many of these things get stored for a year or longer and do just fine.

But, hey, I understand, you've got a new toy to put oil in and play with
grin.gif


Sidebar; I don't think I'd use RL to break an engine in, I'd probably use a good dino for the first few hours.
 
provided you have the space to store it, i would unbox it and fully assemble it and make sure everything works, rather than find out when the snow starts falling.
I think you're foolish to use redline oil, it's a waste of money for a small engine. Just put regular 10w30 in it and make sure it starts.

Regarding piston ring break-in, i would not run the thing for more than 30 seconds now, just make sure it starts. With any engine you want to get it under a load to break-in piston rings. So that means you can't use it for those little snowfalls, you have to wait till a foot or more gets dumped so you can plow the machine into a snowbank and adequately load the engine
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 1 FMF
I think you're foolish to use redline oil, it's a waste of money for a small engine. Just put regular 10w30 in it and make sure it starts.

Why is is a waste???? It's going to cost me $5 per oil change.
I don't know how, but I think I can scrape that amount up. . .
 
ask yourself what will redline do, which costs twice as much per qt, that conventional name brand oil won't do ?

- it will prevent good piston ring break-in, it certainly won't help;
- redline and other ester-based synthetic oils absorb moisture, they are hygroscopic, more so than conventional oils, which is bad in winter when it's snowing out and the whole engine is covered in melted snow and condensation;
- if the engine uses 1/2 qt oil then it's roughly a $5 oil change but you can't buy a half quart of redline, it'll cost you more than $10/qt when you add shipping unless you have a cheaper way to get it. and you would need to change it or should more often because of moisture/water in the oil because of the operating environment.
- redline or any other similar synthetic is great at high operating temperatures but doesn't matter for a snowblower which is probably never going to operate in temps above 40F.
- synthetic oil is also good for low temperatures but that doesn't apply either. a regular 5w30 oil is good down to -10F and you will have no problem starting the thing in low temps. You will have more problems getting outside in -10F then the engine and conventional oil will have. Plus the engine does not have an oil pump, so as long as you use the correct oil viscosity to begin with the temperature benefits of a synethic do not apply.
- the engine does not have an oil filter, so when the oil does get dirty the fix is to change the oil, which is money. synthetic oil does not magically protect against contaminants. contaminated oil is contaminated oil, and you fix it by either filtration or drain/refill.
 
Originally Posted By: 1 FMF
ask yourself what will redline do, which costs twice as much per qt, that conventional name brand oil won't do ?

- it will prevent good piston ring break-in, it certainly won't help; Can you prove that?
- redline and other ester-based synthetic oils absorb moisture Can you prove that?, they are hygroscopic, more so than conventional oils, which is bad in winter can you prove that? when it's snowing out and the whole engine is covered in melted snow and condensation;
- if the engine uses 1/2 qt oil then it's roughly a $5 oil change but you can't buy a half quart of redline, it'll cost you more than $10/qt when you add shipping unless you have a cheaper way to get it. and you would need to change it or should more often because of moisture/water in the oil because of the operating environment. I know how much Redline costs dude. Futhermore, the engine does get hot. It's a StormForce LCT so it is built for snow use. It's cooling fins are in a shroud to prevent over cooling. If anything, It can overheat, like I have heard happen to a cousin who was using his last year in NJ after running it for half a day in 20 inches of snow.
- synthetic oil is also good for low temperatures but that doesn't apply either. a regular 5w30 oil is good down to -10F and you will have no problem starting the thing in low temps. You will have more problems getting outside in -10F then the engine and conventional oil will have. Plus the engine does not have an oil pump, so as long as you use the correct oil viscosity to begin with the temperature benefits of a synethic do not apply.
- the engine does not have an oil filter, so when the oil does get dirty the fix is to change the oil, which is money. synthetic oil does not magically protect against contaminants. contaminated oil is contaminated oil, and you fix it by either filtration or drain/refill. I never said that. I know it has to get changed. I have three quarts of the stuff. I think I have enough to change the oil out.
 
Use whatever you want. I use Amsoil in my small engines. Just because someone thinks its stupid doesn't mean there is anything wrong with using a high quality oil in a small engine.
 
why do you have such a hard on to use redline oil?

i can't legitimately prove redline oil or any synthetic will be detrimental to piston ring break in. But people have had break-in problems while running a synthetic oil, whether it's caused by the oil no one knows for sure but you don't hear many or anyone saying hey I ran Mobil 1 or redline for break-in and my engine is awesome because of it. The general understanding is don't use synthetic oil for break-in, you want to ensure the piston rings wear in good and you don't want to use something that could hinder that. On top of that you will be changing the oil after a few hours of run time, so why use a high dollar oil that you know you will be draining out so soon? it's a waste of money even if it's only 1/2 a quart, the synthetic oil is not doing anything better than any other engine oil would do. If you want to believe it does, then best of luck. You said, "what say you" in your original post, so i did.

my favorite: http://www.redlineoil.com/techinfo_faq.aspx
"Q: Can I break-in my engine on Red Line motor oil?
For peformance engines, we recommend using conventional 10w30 motor oil to ensure proper piston ring seating. We recommend using this oil in combonation with our Engine Oil Break In Additive, which features the antiwear chemicals necessary to protect valve train components like camshafts, rollers, and tappets. Though most conventional oils are missing the important antiwear components that you find in Red Line's synthetic motor oils, the conventional oil is not as slick as Red Line and will allow the piston rings to seat more quickly. If you allow 1500 to 2000 miles in a street engine or 20 to 30 minutes on the dyno at low rpm, the rings will have had sufficient time to seat and the high initial break-in wear will have occurred. For new road cars, always follow the manufacturer recommendations and initial oil change recommendations for break-in."

http://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/Motor Oil Product Data.pdf
"Red Line lubricants are unique because they contain PE Polyol Ester base stocks, the only lubricants which can withstand the tremendous heat of modern jet engines and the StormForce LCT 208cc when run for half a day in 20 inches of snow but only if in NJ"


http://reliabilityweb.com/index.php/articles/mixing_oil_and_water
phosphate ester is highly polar which is good for other reasons, but is also more hygroscopic. You can find this stated at many other sites, not pimpmyricer.com but places like noria, machinerylubrication, lubes 'n greases which i consider reliable sources of information. If you don't like website information, go buy practical handbook of machinery lubrication, page 246: phosphate ester any group of synthetic lubes having superior fire resistance, have poor hydrolytic stability. page 98: "synthetic oils get contaminated with wear metals, carbon soot, combustion residue, by-products of fuels such as acids and sulphur compounds in much the same way as petroleum base oils, it may be unreasonable to expect synthetic oils to last longer than petroleum base lubricants.
The most important thing to remember is that a synthetic oil's use can only be justified if it (a) solves an operational problem that petroleum oil cannot and (b) reduces operating costs sufficiently to offset it's high price."

so i don't know what you hope to gain by using redline for break-in, i see absolutely no up side.
 
He's just trying to say it's way overkill for this small engine. I would definitely break it in on some conventional oil and then switch to whatever synthetic you want to use, redline in this case.
 
Originally Posted By: 1 FMF
why do you have such a hard on to use redline oil?

i can't legitimately prove redline oil or any synthetic will be detrimental to piston ring break in. But people have had break-in problems while running a synthetic oil, whether it's caused by the oil no one knows for sure but you don't hear many or anyone saying hey I ran Mobil 1 or redline for break-in and my engine is awesome because of it. The general understanding is don't use synthetic oil for break-in, you want to ensure the piston rings wear in good and you don't want to use something that could hinder that. On top of that you will be changing the oil after a few hours of run time, so why use a high dollar oil that you know you will be draining out so soon? it's a waste of money even if it's only 1/2 a quart, the synthetic oil is not doing anything better than any other engine oil would do. If you want to believe it does, then best of luck. You said, "what say you" in your original post, so i did.

my favorite: http://www.redlineoil.com/techinfo_faq.aspx
"Q: Can I break-in my engine on Red Line motor oil?
For peformance engines, we recommend using conventional 10w30 motor oil to ensure proper piston ring seating. We recommend using this oil in combonation with our Engine Oil Break In Additive, which features the antiwear chemicals necessary to protect valve train components like camshafts, rollers, and tappets. Though most conventional oils are missing the important antiwear components that you find in Red Line's synthetic motor oils, the conventional oil is not as slick as Red Line and will allow the piston rings to seat more quickly. If you allow 1500 to 2000 miles in a street engine or 20 to 30 minutes on the dyno at low rpm, the rings will have had sufficient time to seat and the high initial break-in wear will have occurred. For new road cars, always follow the manufacturer recommendations and initial oil change recommendations for break-in."

http://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/Motor Oil Product Data.pdf
"Red Line lubricants are unique because they contain PE Polyol Ester base stocks, the only lubricants which can withstand the tremendous heat of modern jet engines and the StormForce LCT 208cc when run for half a day in 20 inches of snow but only if in NJ"


http://reliabilityweb.com/index.php/articles/mixing_oil_and_water
phosphate ester is highly polar which is good for other reasons, but is also more hygroscopic. You can find this stated at many other sites, not pimpmyricer.com but places like noria, machinerylubrication, lubes 'n greases which i consider reliable sources of information. If you don't like website information, go buy practical handbook of machinery lubrication, page 246: phosphate ester any group of synthetic lubes having superior fire resistance, have poor hydrolytic stability. page 98: "synthetic oils get contaminated with wear metals, carbon soot, combustion residue, by-products of fuels such as acids and sulphur compounds in much the same way as petroleum base oils, it may be unreasonable to expect synthetic oils to last longer than petroleum base lubricants.
The most important thing to remember is that a synthetic oil's use can only be justified if it (a) solves an operational problem that petroleum oil cannot and (b) reduces operating costs sufficiently to offset it's high price."

so i don't know what you hope to gain by using redline for break-in, i see absolutely no up side.


Well thanks for your opinion.

I have three quarts of redline in my garage. I am not going to go out and buy a quart of conventional oil when I have three quarts of redline here.

I don't know what your looking to gain spending this much time trying to convince me of using anything but redline.

But it's not working. . .
 
Originally Posted By: rg200amp

Well thanks for your opinion.

I have three quarts of redline in my garage. I am not going to go out and buy a quart of conventional oil when I have three quarts of redline here.

I don't know what your looking to gain spending this much time trying to convince me of using anything but redline.

But it's not working. . .



I think you are reading to much into it. Just that it is a little overkill for an application that will not bring any discernable benefits over a good cheaper conventional oil.

If I had three quarts of it and nothing else that could use it better, I would throw it in also.
 
This is getting perilously close to a flame war, so tamp it down. rg wants to use Red Line in a snow-blower, OK! I wouldn't for break-in, but that's me.
1fmf doesn't think it's economical or demanded by the application, and has his points and information, OK!
I won't use Red Line because it's expensive. Mainstream stuff is, IMO, as good as [fill in favorite name brand here]. I am waiting for my local Simplicity dealer to get the single-stage snow-thrower in w/205cc B&S engine. I will break it in with conventional oil, as is widely recommended; and run it on a synthetic or syn-blend 5w30 mainly for easier starting.
 
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