Spreadsheet formula error for that column. I changed the image earlier this afternoon, but what is displayed has not been updated. I guess images are refreshed overnight.
New sheriff in town has arrived
- Thread starter Tom NJ
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I just checked out the 2 uoa's posted on the board for formula shell 5w30 and the moly numbers listed on the site this thread links to is far from whats listed on blackstone's 2 uoa's just post???
Originally Posted By: Indiana79
I just checked out the 2 uoa's posted on the board for formula shell 5w30 and the moly numbers listed on the site this thread links to is far from whats listed on blackstone's 2 uoa's just post???
Is this any surprise to you?
Petroleum Quality Institute of America sends their blind oil samples to Intertek Automotive Research in San Antonio, TX.
Intertek is an ISO accredited lab, Blackstone is not.
We've seen this multiple times here on the forum where Blackstone's numbers don't exactly jive with the numbers posted from accredited labs. Of course some margin of error is to be expected when comparing results from two different labs, but Blackstone appears to be off the charts at times.
And yet Blackstone is still popular among the folks.
I just checked out the 2 uoa's posted on the board for formula shell 5w30 and the moly numbers listed on the site this thread links to is far from whats listed on blackstone's 2 uoa's just post???
Is this any surprise to you?
Petroleum Quality Institute of America sends their blind oil samples to Intertek Automotive Research in San Antonio, TX.
Intertek is an ISO accredited lab, Blackstone is not.
We've seen this multiple times here on the forum where Blackstone's numbers don't exactly jive with the numbers posted from accredited labs. Of course some margin of error is to be expected when comparing results from two different labs, but Blackstone appears to be off the charts at times.
And yet Blackstone is still popular among the folks.
Tom, thanks for posting the links.
These are the charts/graphs I like to see, no rating of oils or someone trying to say their oil is better just what is in the oils.
These are the charts/graphs I like to see, no rating of oils or someone trying to say their oil is better just what is in the oils.
Is the thinness of the Havoline anything to be concerned about? It seems to be the only one that low (close to 20wt).
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Keep in mind that PQIA is not trying to compare oils, or judge which oils are better than others based on bench analyses. As an oil monitoring organization, their intent is to determine, on a limited but reasonable basis, whether the oil in the bottle is consistent with the claims on the label. Their analyses will serve the consumer by exposing any oils that fail certain specifications, are clearly sub par, or make performance statements that are not supported by the ingredients.
This is a most important point when looking at this data.
An accurate picture of an oil’s capability cannot be judged on additive numbers alone since the base oils used are just as large a factor in the oil’s performance. And physical data doesn’t tell the whole story either. It’s already been pointed out that a higher initial TBN doesn’t necessarily mean an oil will last longer than another oil with a lower initial TBN.
Keep in mind that PQIA is not trying to compare oils, or judge which oils are better than others based on bench analyses. As an oil monitoring organization, their intent is to determine, on a limited but reasonable basis, whether the oil in the bottle is consistent with the claims on the label. Their analyses will serve the consumer by exposing any oils that fail certain specifications, are clearly sub par, or make performance statements that are not supported by the ingredients.
This is a most important point when looking at this data.
An accurate picture of an oil’s capability cannot be judged on additive numbers alone since the base oils used are just as large a factor in the oil’s performance. And physical data doesn’t tell the whole story either. It’s already been pointed out that a higher initial TBN doesn’t necessarily mean an oil will last longer than another oil with a lower initial TBN.
Originally Posted By: CompSyn
Originally Posted By: Indiana79
I just checked out the 2 uoa's posted on the board for formula shell 5w30 and the moly numbers listed on the site this thread links to is far from whats listed on blackstone's 2 uoa's just post???
Is this any surprise to you?
Petroleum Quality Institute of America sends their blind oil samples to Intertek Automotive Research in San Antonio, TX.
Intertek is an ISO accredited lab, Blackstone is not.
We've seen this multiple times here on the forum where Blackstone's numbers don't exactly jive with the numbers posted from accredited labs. Of course some margin of error is to be expected when comparing results from two different labs, but Blackstone appears to be off the charts at times.
And yet Blackstone is still popular among the folks.
Speaking of which, what is the error margins for each line item?
What other labs are ISO accredited?
Originally Posted By: Indiana79
I just checked out the 2 uoa's posted on the board for formula shell 5w30 and the moly numbers listed on the site this thread links to is far from whats listed on blackstone's 2 uoa's just post???
Is this any surprise to you?
Petroleum Quality Institute of America sends their blind oil samples to Intertek Automotive Research in San Antonio, TX.
Intertek is an ISO accredited lab, Blackstone is not.
We've seen this multiple times here on the forum where Blackstone's numbers don't exactly jive with the numbers posted from accredited labs. Of course some margin of error is to be expected when comparing results from two different labs, but Blackstone appears to be off the charts at times.
And yet Blackstone is still popular among the folks.
Speaking of which, what is the error margins for each line item?
What other labs are ISO accredited?
Just an update from JobbersWorld:
"Metuchen, NJ - February 23, 2010 - The Petroleum Quality Institute of America announced today that Warren Oil has become its first lubricant manufacturer sponsor.
Irvin Warren, President of Warren Oil says, "Warren Oil is proud to be the first PQIA sponsor and we strongly support its mission." In addition, Warren says, "PQIA is exactly what the lubricants business needs - independent data that shines light on the truth about the lubricant brands in the marketplace and helps separate the good from the bad." And instead of hiding such data behind closed doors, Warren says, "Warren Oil applauds PQIA for making brand specific data readily available on its website to consumers."By doing so, Warren adds, "Consumers now have what they need to help them make the right choices.
PQIA President Thomas F. Glenn says it welcomes Warren Oil's sponsorship. Further Glenn says, "We were pleased to hear that in addition to Warren Oil's support, Warren welcomed testing of its lubricants." In fact, Glenn says, "Warren Oil encouraged PQIA to proactively test its products rather than waiting for them to come up in PQIA'S random selection." For this reason, Glenn says, "You can be sure there will be at least one Warren Oil lubricant tested in the next round." The first round of testing conducted by PQIA examined 10 major brands of 5W-30 engine oil. According to Glenn, "For these tests, the majors look good."
Tom NJ
"Metuchen, NJ - February 23, 2010 - The Petroleum Quality Institute of America announced today that Warren Oil has become its first lubricant manufacturer sponsor.
Irvin Warren, President of Warren Oil says, "Warren Oil is proud to be the first PQIA sponsor and we strongly support its mission." In addition, Warren says, "PQIA is exactly what the lubricants business needs - independent data that shines light on the truth about the lubricant brands in the marketplace and helps separate the good from the bad." And instead of hiding such data behind closed doors, Warren says, "Warren Oil applauds PQIA for making brand specific data readily available on its website to consumers."By doing so, Warren adds, "Consumers now have what they need to help them make the right choices.
PQIA President Thomas F. Glenn says it welcomes Warren Oil's sponsorship. Further Glenn says, "We were pleased to hear that in addition to Warren Oil's support, Warren welcomed testing of its lubricants." In fact, Glenn says, "Warren Oil encouraged PQIA to proactively test its products rather than waiting for them to come up in PQIA'S random selection." For this reason, Glenn says, "You can be sure there will be at least one Warren Oil lubricant tested in the next round." The first round of testing conducted by PQIA examined 10 major brands of 5W-30 engine oil. According to Glenn, "For these tests, the majors look good."
Tom NJ
Guys, I am surprised at you as a whole. When the lab error is figured in to the add pack numbers, it is almost a complete wash with most of the brands. And even more, when you look at lot to lot differences, you may be at a wash in even more circumstances.
I think it does show how well most of the major brands stack up to one another. Which one would you not run, might be the more important question!
Just my thoughts for what it is worth!
Greg
I think it does show how well most of the major brands stack up to one another. Which one would you not run, might be the more important question!
Just my thoughts for what it is worth!
Greg
You are certainly correct Greg that test reproducibility and lot-to-lot variances will blur many of the differences among the oils.
As I mentioned earlier, PQIA's intent was simply to determine whether the oil in the bottle is consistent with the claims on the label, not to make line-by-line comparisons, and then try to estimate relative performance. They concluded that all of these oils look good, i.e. consistent with SM, GF-4, etc.
Tom NJ
As I mentioned earlier, PQIA's intent was simply to determine whether the oil in the bottle is consistent with the claims on the label, not to make line-by-line comparisons, and then try to estimate relative performance. They concluded that all of these oils look good, i.e. consistent with SM, GF-4, etc.
Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Just an update from JobbersWorld:
"Metuchen, NJ - February 23, 2010 - The Petroleum Quality Institute of America announced today that Warren Oil has become its first lubricant manufacturer sponsor.
Irvin Warren, President of Warren Oil says, "Warren Oil is proud to be the first PQIA sponsor and we strongly support its mission." In addition, Warren says, "PQIA is exactly what the lubricants business needs - independent data that shines light on the truth about the lubricant brands in the marketplace and helps separate the good from the bad." And instead of hiding such data behind closed doors, Warren says, "Warren Oil applauds PQIA for making brand specific data readily available on its website to consumers."By doing so, Warren adds, "Consumers now have what they need to help them make the right choices.
PQIA President Thomas F. Glenn says it welcomes Warren Oil's sponsorship. Further Glenn says, "We were pleased to hear that in addition to Warren Oil's support, Warren welcomed testing of its lubricants." In fact, Glenn says, "Warren Oil encouraged PQIA to proactively test its products rather than waiting for them to come up in PQIA'S random selection." For this reason, Glenn says, "You can be sure there will be at least one Warren Oil lubricant tested in the next round." The first round of testing conducted by PQIA examined 10 major brands of 5W-30 engine oil. According to Glenn, "For these tests, the majors look good."
Tom NJ
Seems like a great PR move for Warren.
Just an update from JobbersWorld:
"Metuchen, NJ - February 23, 2010 - The Petroleum Quality Institute of America announced today that Warren Oil has become its first lubricant manufacturer sponsor.
Irvin Warren, President of Warren Oil says, "Warren Oil is proud to be the first PQIA sponsor and we strongly support its mission." In addition, Warren says, "PQIA is exactly what the lubricants business needs - independent data that shines light on the truth about the lubricant brands in the marketplace and helps separate the good from the bad." And instead of hiding such data behind closed doors, Warren says, "Warren Oil applauds PQIA for making brand specific data readily available on its website to consumers."By doing so, Warren adds, "Consumers now have what they need to help them make the right choices.
PQIA President Thomas F. Glenn says it welcomes Warren Oil's sponsorship. Further Glenn says, "We were pleased to hear that in addition to Warren Oil's support, Warren welcomed testing of its lubricants." In fact, Glenn says, "Warren Oil encouraged PQIA to proactively test its products rather than waiting for them to come up in PQIA'S random selection." For this reason, Glenn says, "You can be sure there will be at least one Warren Oil lubricant tested in the next round." The first round of testing conducted by PQIA examined 10 major brands of 5W-30 engine oil. According to Glenn, "For these tests, the majors look good."
Tom NJ
Seems like a great PR move for Warren.
Tom NJ,
I agree with you totally. I was talking more about the folks makeing a preference on oils looking at the line by line comparison. We all know better than that. I think we ALL sometimes get carried away with this hobby?
But boy what a good time we all have!
Greg
I agree with you totally. I was talking more about the folks makeing a preference on oils looking at the line by line comparison. We all know better than that. I think we ALL sometimes get carried away with this hobby?
But boy what a good time we all have!
Greg
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
The newly formed Petroleum Quality Institute of America is up and running, and has published their first set of analyses.
http://pqiamerica.com/synthetics.htm
This guy looks familiar.
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
http://www.pqiamerica.com/testresults3a.html
The utility of this testing rather eludes me.
In general terms major brand motor oils fall within a range of measurements, with some differences in elemental analyses depending on the approach the formulator takes to meeting the current API requirements.
The newly formed Petroleum Quality Institute of America is up and running, and has published their first set of analyses.
http://pqiamerica.com/synthetics.htm
This guy looks familiar.
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
http://www.pqiamerica.com/testresults3a.html
The utility of this testing rather eludes me.
In general terms major brand motor oils fall within a range of measurements, with some differences in elemental analyses depending on the approach the formulator takes to meeting the current API requirements.
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
I have to agree with The Critic on this one. Skeptic that I am, isn't what matters are the oil condition, wear analysis, and UOA AFTER the oil has run an OCI?
A wise man once told me that an oil with 10 TBN could be better that one with TBN 12. After 10,000 miles, the first one still had a TBN of 4 while the second was down to 2. Its not just the quantity, but also the quality of the adds and base.
So, can we really determine the performance quality of these oils based on these charts?
Weren't we all getting excited just a few weeks ago because Valvoline was the only 5w30 in a test that did NOT shear to a 20 weight?
The charts are handy and nice to look at, though. Thanks.
+1
I have to agree with The Critic on this one. Skeptic that I am, isn't what matters are the oil condition, wear analysis, and UOA AFTER the oil has run an OCI?
A wise man once told me that an oil with 10 TBN could be better that one with TBN 12. After 10,000 miles, the first one still had a TBN of 4 while the second was down to 2. Its not just the quantity, but also the quality of the adds and base.
So, can we really determine the performance quality of these oils based on these charts?
Weren't we all getting excited just a few weeks ago because Valvoline was the only 5w30 in a test that did NOT shear to a 20 weight?
The charts are handy and nice to look at, though. Thanks.
+1
What exactly is the big deal? They published a chart showing simple virgin oil analysis results.
None of the data actually tells us much about the relative merits of the oils in question with regard to wear control, fuel economy, deposit control or any other performance criteria.
This is a bunch of noise about nothing, and hardly meets the "new sheriff" billing.
None of the data actually tells us much about the relative merits of the oils in question with regard to wear control, fuel economy, deposit control or any other performance criteria.
This is a bunch of noise about nothing, and hardly meets the "new sheriff" billing.
I think you are missing the big picture and being a little too quick to judge. Data speaks plenty if you do a little extra background digging and the way the data is presented certainly makes figuring out those "relative merits" a bit easier.
I'd like to see how the boutique oils compare too. I really can't get excited though unless you show how these oils compare after a used oil analysis. That would really be meaningful. Lab tests only show what the lab test result is. I love the data but I'd like to see how the data compares once you have a used oil analysis to look at.
Thanks Tom!
Given the location of where you used to work, and where PQIA is located, I gather that you and Tom Glenn see each other.
Metuchen is almost my back yard. Let me know when you guys want to hang and shoot the breeze about oil or give me a tour of your old employer.
-Dennis
Given the location of where you used to work, and where PQIA is located, I gather that you and Tom Glenn see each other.
Metuchen is almost my back yard. Let me know when you guys want to hang and shoot the breeze about oil or give me a tour of your old employer.
-Dennis
My question remains. Does Tom Glenn hang on BITOG?
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Thanks Tom!
Given the location of where you used to work, and where PQIA is located, I gather that you and Tom Glenn see each other.
Metuchen is almost my back yard. Let me know when you guys want to hang and shoot the breeze about oil or give me a tour of your old employer.
-Dennis
Yes, Tom and I have been friends for years. Since he is running three businesses (Petroleum Trends, JobbersWorld, and Petroleum Quality Institute of America), he barely gets time to eat, so he doesn't spend time on Internet forums. If there is something here that I think he would be interested in I let him know, but that is rare.
I'm game for a beer - PM me.
Tom NJ
Thanks Tom!
Given the location of where you used to work, and where PQIA is located, I gather that you and Tom Glenn see each other.
Metuchen is almost my back yard. Let me know when you guys want to hang and shoot the breeze about oil or give me a tour of your old employer.
-Dennis
Yes, Tom and I have been friends for years. Since he is running three businesses (Petroleum Trends, JobbersWorld, and Petroleum Quality Institute of America), he barely gets time to eat, so he doesn't spend time on Internet forums. If there is something here that I think he would be interested in I let him know, but that is rare.
I'm game for a beer - PM me.
Tom NJ
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