New Sealed Jug of Antifreeze froze and burst in trunk of car?

[Kira]

Far too many people just top off with our extremely hard tap water that tastes like licking a rock,

Where I'm from, the water is referred to as "liquid rock".
I cleansed my friend's son's cooling system as a wedding gift. I brought the coolant and jugs of distilled water.

With all our clothing wet, I gladly helped my pal, who had concentrate, cleanse his.
When I told him it was time to run into town and get 4 or 6 gallons of distilled water, he balked.
He flat refused to go and spend the $6.
Within a couple of days, the coolant reservoir was quite cloudy.

 

[johnmyster]

Not adding to the original post, but it is even MORE confusing than you allude to. During the first year of production, MOPAR/FIAT 10-year coolant was available in BOTH orange and purple versions as shown in the right hand pictures below.
View attachment 264140

This one claims the Fiat version is pink, but it looks orange.
View attachment 264145

That's the missing link that ties together the various specula-authoritative posts on all the forums. The inconsistency was the only thing consistent. Bottom line is the various mopar/fca orange/pink/red coolants can't really be distinguished by color, and if that's not enough, other extremely popular orange (dexcool and G05), pink (toyota) and red (HD ELC) coolants exist in the real world.

THIS is why the FCA/Mopar horrible reputation for clogged heater cores exists.

1) My truck, without me, is useless. Without my truck, I am useless. Only I will maintain my truck.
2) The coolant currently installed is written on the tank, in sharpie. Two additional stickers also appear under the hood.
3) A gallon of concentrate travels in the camper. 50/50 is readily available at walmart.

I shopped used powerstrokes last summer. Half of them had orange in one coolant system and yellow/gold in the other.

To the OP, get the right stuff for your Ford (whatever that may be) or flush and start fresh.

 

[FCD]

I too used to use crappy cheap coolant and even topped up with tap water here, when i was still young and dumb and learned the same hard way.

Then i found Bitog and realised oh, i'm doing this all wrong

I blame my dad, may god rest his soul, he was a car guy yet never took good care of his cars and drove them until they were junk.

I don't know how it works in the US but in most of Europe when you're in driving school at least they teach you the bare minimum checks on an engine like the dipstick, oil fill cap, coolant, brake fluid, washer fluid , and at least teach you other things to check like tyres, the dangers of having worn tyres or brakes, shocks, struts, checking that all your bulbs are working and so on.

But most people forget about all that pretty quick they just want their license.

 

[sdowney717]

Mopar orange was indeed orange, but it was Zerex G05 HOAT. Mopar used it up until 2012. Many a cummins has been crudded up by mixing orange (dexcool) with orange (G05). Color does not imply compatibility. If I thought my cummins had HOAT in it, I would acid flush and update purely because HOAT can be hard to find.

To make it more confusing the Mopar/Fiat purple (OAT) which was used 2013 and up tends to fade to orange, but is likewise not compatible with G-05 orange.

Confused yet? This is why HOATs have largely been abandoned.

This is why the "universals" have come to exist but flush, acid clean, and replace (as you cite) is best practice for vehicles of unknown history that we care about.

Dexcool gelling was/is largely due to mixing with incompatible coolants or excessive air exposure. I would trust it today in a well maintained system and did until recently. You can buy it anywhere if you need more. After all, the Red Supertech HD OAT with 2EHA that started this thread is pretty much a dexclone.

Definitely orange? Likely HOAT?
2005 Cummins dodge Ram truck

 

[johnmyster]

Definitely orange? Likely HOAT?
2005 Cummins dodge Ram truck
View attachment 264148

Likely, but you never know unless you know the service history. There's nothing wrong with converting if you flush first. Ten years ago I would've converted it to dexcool.

Yellow and red also makes orange, right?

 

[Pelican]

I was working for a company up to last year that had a dozen or so heavy trucks. The one I drove would use some antifreeze every so often. It had a ton of miles on it so they just added coolant as needed. Since the trucks were parked a few miles up the road from the terminal I would carry 3 or 4 gallons of antifreeze in the trunk of my car so I had it on hand when I went over the truck each morning. The company bought SuperTech HD red OAT AF from Walmart. The company closed down suddenly back in May '24. I still had five gallons of that coolant in the trunk of my car. I didn't think anything about it till the other day when I noticed one of the jugs all shrunk up as if were under vacuum somehow. They were almost flat but still had some weight, They were not empty but those that shrunk up were lighter than those that didn't shrink.
I took them out of the trunk and saw the one bottle was split but not leaking. The contents were frozen like a Popsicle.
The jug had obviously froze and burst in the recent 8°F weather we had last week. What was odd though is that I couldn't find where it went?
Three of the four jugs were only 1/3 full now but the box they were in was dry and the trunk had no sign of red antifreeze on the carpet. The trunk has tan carpet so it would show. I know those jugs were full when they went in the trunk and I opened the case of six myself when I put the, in there last summer. All of the bottles had intact foil seals. They split down low near the bottom of each bottle near the step in the bottle if they had thawed they would have been empty.
I grabbed a clean drain pan and dumped each split jug out and I got pink ice chunks. and some dark red liquid. what was odd is that it didn't feel like antifreeze and the few spots where it dripped on the garage floor dissappeared in a matter of 10 minutes or so. As if it evaporated. When I checked my trunk I found moisture on the bottom of the deck lid. After I left the trunk open for about an hour it was all gone
I was going to use it in my Ford truck but now I can't trust it. I've never had a new jug of AF just freeze and certainly never had AF just evaporate like that.

This is the what it was:

View attachment 264072
View attachment 264071

Not all Anti-freeze is equal, some are better than others and that = more $$$. This is where Price vs Cost comes in. Having said that if this was not a sealed jug the possibility that someone had added water is there. If I were to shop at WM I'd not buy the home brand, but any of the good name brands out there. The most expensive part of Coolant & Oil is the additives, so if they are cheaper maybe they cut some corners. Nothing is foolproof, but I'd edge my bets by not trying to get the cheapest.

 

[oldiron]

He's just saying that the OP was using his personal vehicle for work related duties (hauling antifreeze), doing them a favor, and he ended up dealing with a mess and headache to his personal property. No good deed goes unpunished. It's a fine line between the workplace taking advantage of you vs. a workplace that appreciates and rewards the extra effort. The reward might be subtle, like just providing a wonderful place to work at (good people, good conditions).

It really wasn't like that, as a driver we got paid by the stop, and they paid me an extra $100/wk to come in 1/2 hr early to start all the trucks and check the oil, antifreeze, and power steering fluid, and do a quick walk around on the truck I drove and two others that left before daybreak. They had lost an engine after one driver ran a truck out of coolant and another was found a gallon low on oil. I had gotten the job because I was likely the only driver who was checking fluids before and after each trip or reporting problems before it broke down.

They moved four of the trucks to a yard down the road away from nearby houses because we left the yard at 3am. The main terminal was between my house and the yard where the trucks were kept. The depot didn't open for trucks till 7am, so if I didn't have what I needed when I got to the trucks, or if I had to pickup anything it meant driving back several miles, opening a huge gate, turning off the alarm walking back to the storeroom for oil or AF or what ever I needed, then re-locking the place up because the rest of the guys didn't come in for 3 hours. They also had a half dozen watch dogs that needed to be dealt with and secured when in the building or in the yard there. The dogs were good with me but me being there disrupted their schedule.

I had the run of the place at will, I was one of four who had keys to everything and had direct contact with the owner.
The fact that the coolant froze in my trunk wasn't work's fault, it could just as well been coolant for my pickup.
I hadn't bothered to take it out of the trunk because I figured I'd use it in my 6.0L Power Stroke truck that still has the original coolant in it after 22 years and almost 12,000 miles. (I rarely use that truck). I keep reading that the gold a/f is bad so and to use an EC1 rated coolant instead. I'm glad I didn't get around to it last fall. The 22 year old coolant didn't freeze but the new stuff did.

Its sealed in the bottle and the 2 jugs that didn't break did not freeze on my back porch, But what came out of the three jugs that split open seems to have separated and has chunks of ice in the clear jug I poured the remainder of each jug into.
All 5 of these jugs came out of the same sealed case of 6. I picked up 6 from the storeroom, used part of one and left it in the truck that day and the rest remained in my car. I didn't know that day was going to be my last but it was before a holiday weekend and I was to be off for the next two weeks for vacation. They shut the place down while I was on vacation. I got a call the day before I was supposed to go back to work saying they were closing down after loosing two major contracts after things changed at the Canadian border. I was close to retiring anyway so for me it wasn't a big deal and a few guys took jobs with the company that bought some of the trucks but they were too far in the wrong direction for me to drive to from my place. I actually didn't mind working there and what happened wasn't entirely their own fault. Their business was built around imports and relied on two other companies, when the imports stopped coming in from up north, one of the two companies they contracted with also closed up their local operation and moved 800 miles south they lost 3/4 of their business with zero chances or replacing those contracts. It all went down over about 3 weeks or so last May.

I had only stayed on there as long as I did because of a few of the places where we delivered to required extensive background checks to gain access. (The other 1/3 of the business). Those stops were what I dealt with. They required a particular truck and an approved, known driver and I had been doing those runs for 12 years when the last company had closed up in 2013. The new owner was a former partner in the original company who asked me to come back and help train a few new drivers. It was supposed to be temporary from the start but I didn't mind the money and they gave me zero grief there.

If the jugs and the case itself weren't sealed when I opened them, I'd have figured someone just stole the A/F at the store and replaced it with colored water. My concern at first wasn't that it froze but that I likely had a gallon and a half of red coolant soaked into my trunk but there's no sign of it other than the condensation on the trunk lid that day, which dried up fast in he open air.

The rag I wiped up what spilled on the table on the porch never showed any red and the stuff was not sticky or oily like I'd expect it to be. I suppose once the weather warms up I'll be taking the trunk liner out and scrubbing down the inside of the trunk but the more I thought about it the more I thought how screwed up it would have been if I had changed the coolant in my own truck with that stuff
At work, the trucks were always plugged in and heated so it was unlikely they would ever freeze but my pickup sits in the garage unused most of the time unless I need it. It rarely gets used, thus the low miles. In many ways its still like a new truck never seeing much use and not sitting out getting rusty.

I used a float type a/f tester and the mix that's left in the jug shows good to -20°F once I shook it up and got it to completely thaw out. The frozen parts seem to liquify fast when shook or broken up, almost as if its barely frozen or a group of smaller frozen bits. All of it doesn't freeze, what don't freeze gets darker and stays on the bottom of the jug as a dark red fluid while frozen chunks are more a pink/clear color as if only the water us freezing and leaving the rest as a liquid.

Now I'm afraid to change the antifreeze in my truck to red EC-1 like I had planned to.
I know Walmart don't make this stuff and it don't look tampered with but its not antifreeze that I want to rely on. It acts like colored saltwater not ethylene glycol.

One thing I do recall seeing using this stuff on a truck that had a few leaks is that it left a white battery acid looking stain where it dripped where as green a/f just looked wet or green. This stuff left a white crusty trail where it leaked out and dried up. The coolant bottle would leak if filled too high and the heater control valve would drip a few drops a day when it was open. Both areas had what we called vomit stains beneath them. Neither were bad enough to justify replacing parts on an underpowered million mile truck but the battery acid looking stains did concern me a bit.

 

[johnmyster]

It really wasn't like that, as a driver we got paid by the stop, and they paid me an extra $100/wk to come in 1/2 hr early to start all the trucks and check the oil, antifreeze, and power steering fluid, and do a quick walk around on the truck I drove and two others that left before daybreak. They had lost an engine after one driver ran a truck out of coolant and another was found a gallon low on oil. I had gotten the job because I was likely the only driver who was checking fluids before and after each trip or reporting problems before it broke down.

They moved four of the trucks to a yard down the road away from nearby houses because we left the yard at 3am. The main terminal was between my house and the yard where the trucks were kept. The depot didn't open for trucks till 7am, so if I didn't have what I needed when I got to the trucks, or if I had to pickup anything it meant driving back several miles, opening a huge gate, turning off the alarm walking back to the storeroom for oil or AF or what ever I needed, then re-locking the place up because the rest of the guys didn't come in for 3 hours. They also had a half dozen watch dogs that needed to be dealt with and secured when in the building or in the yard there. The dogs were good with me but me being there disrupted their schedule.

I had the run of the place at will, I was one of four who had keys to everything and had direct contact with the owner.
The fact that the coolant froze in my trunk wasn't work's fault, it could just as well been coolant for my pickup.
I hadn't bothered to take it out of the trunk because I figured I'd use it in my 6.0L Power Stroke truck that still has the original coolant in it after 22 years and almost 12,000 miles. (I rarely use that truck). I keep reading that the gold a/f is bad so and to use an EC1 rated coolant instead. I'm glad I didn't get around to it last fall. The 22 year old coolant didn't freeze but the new stuff did.

Its sealed in the bottle and the 2 jugs that didn't break did not freeze on my back porch, But what came out of the three jugs that split open seems to have separated and has chunks of ice in the clear jug I poured the remainder of each jug into.
All 5 of these jugs came out of the same sealed case of 6. I picked up 6 from the storeroom, used part of one and left it in the truck that day and the rest remained in my car. I didn't know that day was going to be my last but it was before a holiday weekend and I was to be off for the next two weeks for vacation. They shut the place down while I was on vacation. I got a call the day before I was supposed to go back to work saying they were closing down after loosing two major contracts after things changed at the Canadian border. I was close to retiring anyway so for me it wasn't a big deal and a few guys took jobs with the company that bought some of the trucks but they were too far in the wrong direction for me to drive to from my place. I actually didn't mind working there and what happened wasn't entirely their own fault. Their business was built around imports and relied on two other companies, when the imports stopped coming in from up north, one of the two companies they contracted with also closed up their local operation and moved 800 miles south they lost 3/4 of their business with zero chances or replacing those contracts. It all went down over about 3 weeks or so last May.

I had only stayed on there as long as I did because of a few of the places where we delivered to required extensive background checks to gain access. (The other 1/3 of the business). Those stops were what I dealt with. They required a particular truck and an approved, known driver and I had been doing those runs for 12 years when the last company had closed up in 2013. The new owner was a former partner in the original company who asked me to come back and help train a few new drivers. It was supposed to be temporary from the start but I didn't mind the money and they gave me zero grief there.

If the jugs and the case itself weren't sealed when I opened them, I'd have figured someone just stole the A/F at the store and replaced it with colored water. My concern at first wasn't that it froze but that I likely had a gallon and a half of red coolant soaked into my trunk but there's no sign of it other than the condensation on the trunk lid that day, which dried up fast in he open air.

The rag I wiped up what spilled on the table on the porch never showed any red and the stuff was not sticky or oily like I'd expect it to be. I suppose once the weather warms up I'll be taking the trunk liner out and scrubbing down the inside of the trunk but the more I thought about it the more I thought how screwed up it would have been if I had changed the coolant in my own truck with that stuff
At work, the trucks were always plugged in and heated so it was unlikely they would ever freeze but my pickup sits in the garage unused most of the time unless I need it. It rarely gets used, thus the low miles. In many ways its still like a new truck never seeing much use and not sitting out getting rusty.

I used a float type a/f tester and the mix that's left in the jug shows good to -20°F once I shook it up and got it to completely thaw out. The frozen parts seem to liquify fast when shook or broken up, almost as if its barely frozen or a group of smaller frozen bits. All of it doesn't freeze, what don't freeze gets darker and stays on the bottom of the jug as a dark red fluid while frozen chunks are more a pink/clear color as if only the water us freezing and leaving the rest as a liquid.

Now I'm afraid to change the antifreeze in my truck to red EC-1 like I had planned to.
I know Walmart don't make this stuff and it don't look tampered with but its not antifreeze that I want to rely on. It acts like colored saltwater not ethylene glycol.

One thing I do recall seeing using this stuff on a truck that had a few leaks is that it left a white battery acid looking stain where it dripped where as green a/f just looked wet or green. This stuff left a white crusty trail where it leaked out and dried up. The coolant bottle would leak if filled too high and the heater control valve would drip a few drops a day when it was open. Both areas had what we called vomit stains beneath them. Neither were bad enough to justify replacing parts on an underpowered million mile truck but the battery acid looking stains did concern me a bit.

Do note, the super tech isn’t actually EC1 NOAT. The sticker says “meets performance requirements of.” The NF ELCs are not actually EC1.

If I had a neglected 6.0 that miraculously made it 22 years on original coolant without toasting a head gasket, egr cooler, or oil cooler…I wouldn’t be putting supertech 2EHA tweener coolant in there. That miracle ford is worthy of a flush and fill with a name brand on the bottle. Delo XLC, Rotella ELC NF, Peak FC Global, or Peak FC Pro, in order of increasing preference. Granted none of those are actually EC1 NOATs either.

 

[eljefino]

You might want to double check this mystery fluid with a refractometer; they're under $20 on eBay or aliexpress and surprisingly good.

Some antifreezes like RV water system turn to slush when they get too cold. They don't expand though like water/ice so don't blow your pipes out. Obviously since they can't be pumped they'd make awful car antifreeze.

 

[oldiron]

Neglected? Its only got 12,000 miles on it. Its due for its third oil change soon. I did the last oil change, full synthetic at 8,500 miles in 2016. At the current rate of use it'll have 20k on it about the time I turn 80 in 20 or so more years. Its never been more than 10 miles from the house here since I bought it. Its a spare vehicle these days.

The A/F tests fine, I've pumped out a few gallons every year and topped it off with fresh Motorcraft mainly because when I made the deal on the truck I got them to throw in two cases of A/F, four cases of oil, and 12 oil filters and 24 fuel filters as part of the deal.

I also had another 6.0L truck for a while that got used as a work truck. A 2004 Supercab long bed 4x4 that had 288,650 miles on it when I sold it. The motor never gave me an ounce of trouble. (The charging system was a different story, it ate alternators and batteries). I sold it in 2012 With lots of bed rust from being on the beach. It got regular oil changes, periodic a/f partial drain and refills with Motorcraft a/f. If the frame hadn't started to rust through where the bed bolted down I'd have kept it because it didn't owe me a thing. It lived its whole life with me, it was a company truck for a place i worked for then who replaced it. They asked who wanted it, about 20 guys all said they'd take it so they put all our names in a hat and had the girl in the office pick one. I got it. Which was fitting since I had driven it the most over the years. I later found out the boss put only my name in the hat 20+ times. It had `46 on it then and needed brakes and tires. I put four new Cooper tires on it, new front brakes, and a full service and drove it as my daily ride for 5 more years.
Until I had these jugs of coolant freeze, I never heard of any issues with the gold coolant they came with.
That truck did rust up its degas bottle early on, but they replaced the bottle and the dealer had flushed it all out when it was new. My 03 never showed those issues but its never been driven or worked really hard before either. Mine did have a bad ECP sensor about a week after I bought it. The dealer knew what it was and fixed it while I waited. The replacement one started to leak about 10 years ago so I bought one from NGK and its been fine since. I carry a spare just in case in the glove box.

The label on the Super tech jugs that burst says Super Tech ELC is an Organic Acid Technology.........

Its worded nearly identical to the Napa and Peak Final Charge.
All seems to only be available as 50/50 premix here.
Walmart lists Rotella ELC NF but doesn't carry it here. They have Peak and Super Tech over by itself separate from the regular coolant. The Peak brand us $19.20/gal SuperTech is $16.88/gal at the local store but they only stock a few gallons at a time. Napa is the same but are more than double getting it by mail through Walmart online, $28/gal vs $12/gal online

Depending on which Walmart I went to I found two different bottles, the second version had this back label:

I'm thinking its just a label redesign unless they switched sources because they knew they had a problem?


I did think about maybe they somehow put RV antifreeze in these bottles but it does contain Ethylene Glycol
I separated a few spoonfuls of the frozen chunks, enough to test them with one of these:

Its what I have here so I used it. For the most part I generally rely on the fact that the coolant won't freeze when new but this us a new one to me.
What's strange is that only three out of the five jugs froze. The other two which I now placed in zip lock bags and put in the freezer at -4 F. All day and those are not frozen yet. But the remains of the three that burst freezes up just below 20 degrees or so. I put what didn't leak out into a washer fluid jug and its 22°F outside on the porch now and the drops that are stuck to the top part of the bottle are frozen but the bulk of it is still liquid.

It acts more like Kool Aid than antifreeze.

 

[sdowney717]

Reading that you can test your AF using a mulitmedia
If it is generating a voltage greater then 0.4, it needs changing
I am going to try it

Reason it works is different metals in an electrolyte create a battery with measurable voltage and then metals corrode.

https://www.familyhandyman.com/project/coolant-testing-with-a-multimeter/

Test the coolant​

• Set your multimeter to DC volts to less than (<) 20 volts.
• Touch the black lead to the negative battery lead or the chassis ground, and place the red lead into the coolant.
• If the reading is less than .4 volts, the coolant is in good shape. Anything over that indicates the anti-corrosive properties of the antifreeze have started to or have completely failed. Time to flush your coolant system!

 

[sdowney717]

Says HOAT protects cast iron better than OAT
HOAT is orange, OAT is purple, generally, I know color is iffy

Question is does the bottle tell you it's HOAT or OAT?

Only advantage of OAT that I read is it lasts longer, HOAT needs more frequent testing
If OAT is not as good at protecting iron, does that mean iron can rust in OAT?

https://theoffroading.com/hoat-vs-oat-coolant/

Composition​

• HOAT Coolant: HOAT has a mixture of both traditional Inorganic Technology and Organic Acid technology. You can have a hunch about its properties when we say ‘H’ stands for Hybrid. The coolant uses silicates and phosphates with organic additives to create a versatile spectrum of protection.
• OAT Coolant: This coolant has no mixture of organic and inorganic technology. It comes exclusively with organic acid inhibitors. There’s no presence of additives like silicates, phosphates or even borates. If you want something completely organic, you should go for OAT coolants.

Corrosion Protection​

• HOAT Coolant: HOAT comes with amazing corrosion protection capability. It’s probably because of the mixture of organic and inorganic additives. The coolant can protect aluminum and cast iron components within your car’s coolant system.
• OAT Coolant: Even though OAT coolant can protect most metals and materials with its corrosion protection abilities, its primary focus is on aluminum components. However, it doesn’t protect cast iron elements like HOAT does.

Compatibility​

• HOAT Coolant: HOAT coolants strike a balance between their compatibility with diverse vehicle types. They are generally suitable for a wide array of vehicles. It doesn’t matter if your vehicle is equipped with aluminum radiators. This coolant type can take care of everything.
• OAT Coolant: OAT coolants, with their emphasis on aluminum protection, find themselves particularly well-suited to modern vehicles. And when we’re saying modern vehicles, we’re talking about the ones furnished with aluminum components.

Service Life​

• HOAT Coolant: You can expect to have an extended service life from HOAT coolants. However, compared to OAT coolants, they might need frequent replacements.
• OAT Coolant: OAT coolants establish themselves as more like a package of “long-life” solutions. Their ability to maintain effectiveness over significantly longer periods is a plus. You won’t be requiring replacements anytime soon.

Maintenance​

• HOAT Coolant: If you want HOAT coolant to serve you for a long time, you must go for periodic testing. Along with this, you have to replenish the additives occasionally.
• OAT Coolant: You need very low maintenance for OAT coolants. Compared to HOAT, they don’t need frequent additive supplementation. Thus, what you get is a completely hassle-free experience.

pH Balance​

• HOAT Coolant: HOAT coolants typically have a more neutral pH. This pH balance is compatible with various engine components thanks to the blend of organic and inorganic additives.
• OAT Coolant: OAT coolants have a more of an alkaline (basic) pH. The pH stays like this since there are no certain inorganic additives like silicates and phosphates.

The higher pH of OAT coolants enhances their compatibility with aluminum surfaces. This provides effective corrosion protection as well.

Temperature Protection​

• HOAT Coolant: HOAT coolants offer a moderate level of temperature protection. The inorganic additives form a protective barrier on metal surfaces. This barrier helps prevent excessive heat transfer, ensuring engine components maintain optimal temperature ranges.
• OAT Coolant: OAT coolants are designed to provide excellent temperature protection, especially in higher temperature ranges. As there are no inorganic additives, it reduces the risk of abrasive wear and sedimentation.

 

[sdowney717]

I just measured on the Cummins truck and got 0.29v, it is still good

 

[johnmyster]

Neglected? Its only got 12,000 miles on it. Its due for its third oil change soon. I did the last oil change, full synthetic at 8,500 miles in 2016.

Yes, 3500 miles and 9 years on oil is neglect. That poor HPOP and injectors. (I worked in the factory that made the 6.0 heui injectors). 22 years on coolant is neglect. Time matters. (But now you say you've been doing partial drain and fills.) Belts and hoses are deteriorating regardless of mileage. Fuel filters, etc.

Sorry about the bad free antifreeze. Suggest dumping it and sticking with motorcraft. Again, the supertech coolant may be red but it isn't actually EC-1 (NOAT) coolant. If this experience sours you on all HD reds (NOAT, OAT, PhOAT) well, it was free.

 

[oldiron]

I've changed my oil every 4 to 5k, it makes no sense to dump out oil that still looks new. If it goes bad sitting then what I'll put in it isn't any newer. It all came with the truck or was bought in bulk at that time. The same with the the Motorcraft coolant that everyone says to get rid of.


When I got the '03 I let the dealer do the first couple oil changes since they were 'free' for the first 5 years. It was not the dealer I worked at, they had been gone for some time by that point.
Synthetic options were still scarce for diesel oils then and the only oil I was able to find then was Chevron Delo 5W40. I have 6 20 gallon barrels of it bought in 2008 or 2009. Buying that amount made it cheaper than buying half as much oil by the case and they gave me the pump and the measuring buckets to dispense it. The thought was to avoid paying the dealer $185 per oil change. When I bought the truck I had them include 12 cases of oil and 24 oil and 24 fuel filters. The hard part was lugging those barrels down the basement steps for safe storage and back out again when I moved, twice.
The truck hasn't seen any hard work in its life, a few loads of stuff moving but household stuff and a few tractors and tool boxes isn't any serious work for any truck.
The oil in it still looks new at 3,351 miles. I would also think that with the synthetic oil the oil changes can go a bit further.
If I go by time not miles, then last year the truck got zero miles, it sat from 3-22 to 1-25 because I was at my other house and have been using the older truck more lately. The only reason I drove it three weeks ago was to go get new tires for it. The spare set were getting pretty dry rotted looking so I replaced those and bought a new set for the truck as well since those are original as well. I really hate to take off the OEM tires since I can't buy them new anymore, The only tires I could find here were Cooper AT3s in ten ply, all the BFG's were made in Israel and China and we had a ton of issues with them at work a few years ago. I had to hunt for a month to find Cooper tires that were still US made since they too sold out now. The set I found were made in 11/2019 and I had to have a buddy pick them up in WV. I mounted the spare set up last night on the new rims, I'll do the truck when its warmer out.

I drained the coolant and did my own inspection and flush then at around 1,580 miles in 2008 or so. I drained the coolant, which looked new yet, removed and flushed the degas bottle and flushed the block at work using the pump that they use for the big trucks. I found that if I raised the rear axle 5ft the coolant system would drain competely minus what ever may remain in the egr cooler area. It got flushed for 40 minutes and drained. I ran the original coolant through two filters, and added two gallons of fresh coolant to the mix first and refilled the truck with the original coolant ending up with about an extra gallon.

I drained off about two gallons from the bottom block plug and radiator drain twice over the years and pulled and flushed the degas bottle adding new coolant each time to refill it when I replaced the ECP sensor once at 5k and again at 9k)
Never has the coolant shown as being weak or discolored in anyway. I bought an aftermarket coolant filter kit years ago but never installed it. I didn't like how it tied in and didn't want to do it until or if I changed the coolant to red,

The trucks at work ranged from 5 to 20 years old. The coolant never got drained and replaced, it got 'replenished' or recycled through a machine that would filter and reuse it. Those trucks, mostly International and Freightliners, ran for over a million miles. The two engine failures they had were driver or mechanic caused. One engine overheated after a bypass hose split open that was just replaced. A brand new hose split open. The driver continued to drive till he cooked the engine and cracked two liners and the timing cover. $11k later all was fixed. The other failure was a bad degas bottle on a VT365 in a straight truck.

It lost coolant, the driver kept driving despite being told to wait for a tow and thus cooked the motor. They parked the truck and it became my new storage shed. Due to its age and miles they just chose not to fix it. It drove here but it took about 200 gallons of water to keep refilling it. Both heads are leaking water out the rear lower corners of the head gaskets. I just parked it out back, built a deck and steps to the door and added trusses and an A roof so it don't look like an old truck sitting there.

What is the Motorcraft Gold A/F? I thought that was supposed to be OAT The bottles do not say, it only says its VC-7-B

I tried the Ohmeter thing and can't get a reading? I have a Fluke 23-III which also has a Navistar tool number on it.
Plus two Snap On MT565AV meters and several CE and Harbor Freight meters and two Radio Shack digital meters.
All read the same. Locked into the lowest range, (if not the meter just wandered up and down).
I get 7.48 ohms on my 03 F250 with the positive lead on the alternator bracket and the other in the coolant in the degas bottle.
Wanting to find a control I poured some fresh Motorcraft gold premix into a clean metal drain pan and tested the resistance to the pan through fresh coolant and got 14 ohms.
I then tried the same with the red coolant from the Supertech jug and got 8.08 ohms
I then thought maybe it being directly in a metal pan was affecting it so I grabbed a foil cup, the kind used to mix epoxy in and put 4 oz of red Super Tech in it and got the same readings on all of the meters.

I then wanted to compare to another truck. I went two doors down to a neighbor who just bought a brand new F450 6.7 dually. I did the same test on that truck, going from the front enging bracket to the cooant in the bottle and I got 9.19 ohms.
I then went back in the garage and broke open a new jug of Motorcraft green coolant that came with my '96 F350. The new green coolant gave me 15.81 ohms.
I don't think the test is valid in anyway. There are too many variables including temperature and brand of coolant.

Then I went back to the Supertech coolant. It ate through the foil cup which was inside a cut off Solo cup. When I picked it all up it had leaked through the Solo cup too. The cup didn't look melted but the foil was eaten away and fell apart like confetti.

 

[sdowney717]

I've changed my oil every 4 to 5k, it makes no sense to dump out oil that still looks new. If it goes bad sitting then what I'll put in it isn't any newer. It all came with the truck or was bought in bulk at that time. The same with the the Motorcraft coolant that everyone says to get rid of.


When I got the '03 I let the dealer do the first couple oil changes since they were 'free' for the first 5 years. It was not the dealer I worked at, they had been gone for some time by that point.
Synthetic options were still scarce for diesel oils then and the only oil I was able to find then was Chevron Delo 5W40. I have 6 20 gallon barrels of it bought in 2008 or 2009. Buying that amount made it cheaper than buying half as much oil by the case and they gave me the pump and the measuring buckets to dispense it. The thought was to avoid paying the dealer $185 per oil change. When I bought the truck I had them include 12 cases of oil and 24 oil and 24 fuel filters. The hard part was lugging those barrels down the basement steps for safe storage and back out again when I moved, twice.
The truck hasn't seen any hard work in its life, a few loads of stuff moving but household stuff and a few tractors and tool boxes isn't any serious work for any truck.
The oil in it still looks new at 3,351 miles. I would also think that with the synthetic oil the oil changes can go a bit further.
If I go by time not miles, then last year the truck got zero miles, it sat from 3-22 to 1-25 because I was at my other house and have been using the older truck more lately. The only reason I drove it three weeks ago was to go get new tires for it. The spare set were getting pretty dry rotted looking so I replaced those and bought a new set for the truck as well since those are original as well. I really hate to take off the OEM tires since I can't buy them new anymore, The only tires I could find here were Cooper AT3s in ten ply, all the BFG's were made in Israel and China and we had a ton of issues with them at work a few years ago. I had to hunt for a month to find Cooper tires that were still US made since they too sold out now. The set I found were made in 11/2019 and I had to have a buddy pick them up in WV. I mounted the spare set up last night on the new rims, I'll do the truck when its warmer out.

I drained the coolant and did my own inspection and flush then at around 1,580 miles in 2008 or so. I drained the coolant, which looked new yet, removed and flushed the degas bottle and flushed the block at work using the pump that they use for the big trucks. I found that if I raised the rear axle 5ft the coolant system would drain competely minus what ever may remain in the egr cooler area. It got flushed for 40 minutes and drained. I ran the original coolant through two filters, and added two gallons of fresh coolant to the mix first and refilled the truck with the original coolant ending up with about an extra gallon.

I drained off about two gallons from the bottom block plug and radiator drain twice over the years and pulled and flushed the degas bottle adding new coolant each time to refill it when I replaced the ECP sensor once at 5k and again at 9k)
Never has the coolant shown as being weak or discolored in anyway. I bought an aftermarket coolant filter kit years ago but never installed it. I didn't like how it tied in and didn't want to do it until or if I changed the coolant to red,

The trucks at work ranged from 5 to 20 years old. The coolant never got drained and replaced, it got 'replenished' or recycled through a machine that would filter and reuse it. Those trucks, mostly International and Freightliners, ran for over a million miles. The two engine failures they had were driver or mechanic caused. One engine overheated after a bypass hose split open that was just replaced. A brand new hose split open. The driver continued to drive till he cooked the engine and cracked two liners and the timing cover. $11k later all was fixed. The other failure was a bad degas bottle on a VT365 in a straight truck.

It lost coolant, the driver kept driving despite being told to wait for a tow and thus cooked the motor. They parked the truck and it became my new storage shed. Due to its age and miles they just chose not to fix it. It drove here but it took about 200 gallons of water to keep refilling it. Both heads are leaking water out the rear lower corners of the head gaskets. I just parked it out back, built a deck and steps to the door and added trusses and an A roof so it don't look like an old truck sitting there.

What is the Motorcraft Gold A/F? I thought that was supposed to be OAT The bottles do not say, it only says its VC-7-B
View attachment 264356

I tried the Ohmeter thing and can't get a reading? I have a Fluke 23-III which also has a Navistar tool number on it.
Plus two Snap On MT565AV meters and several CE and Harbor Freight meters and two Radio Shack digital meters.
All read the same. Locked into the lowest range, (if not the meter just wandered up and down).
I get 7.48 ohms on my 03 F250 with the positive lead on the alternator bracket and the other in the coolant in the degas bottle.
Wanting to find a control I poured some fresh Motorcraft gold premix into a clean metal drain pan and tested the resistance to the pan through fresh coolant and got 14 ohms.
I then tried the same with the red coolant from the Supertech jug and got 8.08 ohms
I then thought maybe it being directly in a metal pan was affecting it so I grabbed a foil cup, the kind used to mix epoxy in and put 4 oz of red Super Tech in it and got the same readings on all of the meters.

I then wanted to compare to another truck. I went two doors down to a neighbor who just bought a brand new F450 6.7 dually. I did the same test on that truck, going from the front enging bracket to the cooant in the bottle and I got 9.19 ohms.
I then went back in the garage and broke open a new jug of Motorcraft green coolant that came with my '96 F350. The new green coolant gave me 15.81 ohms.
I don't think the test is valid in anyway. There are too many variables including temperature and brand of coolant.

Then I went back to the Supertech coolant. It ate through the foil cup which was inside a cut off Solo cup. When I picked it all up it had leaked through the Solo cup too. The cup didn't look melted but the foil was eaten away and fell apart like confetti.

Red Positive lead in the coolant
Black negative lead on the negative terminal

I think you have meter leads backwards?
And you need to measure voltage not ohms.
My meter I set to 2 on the DC voltage setting for the proper scale, auto ranging meters just set to DV volts.

What you are doing is measuring a generated voltage potential that exists in the coolant versus the ground.
When it is too high, like 0.4 volts, that voltage is eating away the metals meaning the antifreeze is no longer protecting the metals in the motor. So corrosion is happening on the inside.

It is also called galvanic potential. Galvanic potential exists when you have dissimilar metals immersed in a liquid (electrolyte) that can conduct current.
When metals corrode, electrons are pulled from metal, and it corrodes.
Electrons pulled from one metal to another are creating an electric current.
What that means is your engine is functioning like a battery, and you want that voltage as low as possible.

 

[sdowney717]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

Good antifreeze electrically helps separates metals
Bad antifreeze joins them completing the circuit and causes high corrosion rates

 

[oldiron]

Your right, I was checking continuity not voltage.

I tried it again but only on the two trucks here, my town car, and my girlfriends new Bronco Sport.
Using several meters I get roughly 1 volt below battery voltage on every vehicle and the positive lead bubbles when it hits the coolant. The one truck has green af, the 03 has gold, and the bronco has yellow af and has 900 miles on it. (Says Use only Motorcraft VC13 'HOAT' type AF.

I tried the same test using a grounded bucket of plain distilled water and got the very same voltage.
The test doesn't work. I see now way coolant can insulate from a 12v source like that. With the amount of bubbling at the positive lead I wouldn't want to do it for very long either as its obviously eating the lead. (I switched to using a bit of copper wire on a clip after the first try.
If the af was not able to conduct it would need to be an insulator. By sticking the meter lead in the coolant your forcing the af to be the insulator between the B+ and ground. Anything that contains water will conduct.
I did the test with the bucket full of pure new green af and a gallon of new Ford Gold VC7 and get the same effect with only very minor changes as I increase the distance between the lead and the grounded metal.

It made no difference if I used the red Supertech, green Motorcraft, or the gold Motorcraft or even oil the liquid gives me between 7 and 11.4v every time. When you put the pos lead into the coolant your forcing the coolant to become electrolyte backed by the battery's amperage. Only salt water would conduct more current.

If what your saying is true than the new af in the Bronco is also bad as is the new green, red, and gold af right out of the jug.
To me it sounds more like a salesman's trick than a legit test. The coolant would have to be a total insulator to not read voltage.

As one more test I took a jumper wire clipped to a penny and dropped it to the bottom of a new gallon of fresh Ford VC7B af (50/50 mix) with that lead connected to the negative battery terminal on my jumper box, and taking a 6" length of 10 ga. solid copper wire connected to the positive lead of the meter set on dc volts and the negative meter lead on the battery posituve terminal I get 11.53v of the 12.77v at the jumper pack itself and the copper wire starts sizzling.
This is a brand new just opened jug. There is no difference in the readings using the red Supertech (the jug that didn't freeze). As long as there is water in the solution its going to conduct the same as plain water. I don't know how it can't when a 12v potential is put into the water.
After doing this it sunk in that you said to put the neg lead on the neg terminal and test the coolant for voltage.
After re reading what you typed it makes less sense:

"Red Positive lead in the coolant
Black negative lead on the negative terminal"

Doing this give me no meter reaction because there's no connection to or through the coolant to read voltage. Its the same as being set on voltage and reading both ends of the negative battery cable with the leads?
I tried it for kicks and got no reading with any of 5 meters each set on the lowest or 'auto' voltage setting, There would need to be a 12v source somewere in the system shorted to the coolant for it to give a reading. With no voltage applied how can the meter see or read voltage? If there was there would be a pretty serious draw or corrosion issue on the vehicle.
The coolant is grounded just the same as the block or radiator is grounded.

 

[sdowney717]

Your right, I was checking continuity not voltage.

I tried it again but only on the two trucks here, my town car, and my girlfriends new Bronco Sport.
Using several meters I get roughly 1 volt below battery voltage on every vehicle and the positive lead bubbles when it hits the coolant. The one truck has green af, the 03 has gold, and the bronco has yellow af and has 900 miles on it. (Says Use only Motorcraft VC13 'HOAT' type AF.

I tried the same test using a grounded bucket of plain distilled water and got the very same voltage.
The test doesn't work. I see now way coolant can insulate from a 12v source like that. With the amount of bubbling at the positive lead I wouldn't want to do it for very long either as its obviously eating the lead. (I switched to using a bit of copper wire on a clip after the first try.
If the af was not able to conduct it would need to be an insulator. By sticking the meter lead in the coolant your forcing the af to be the insulator between the B+ and ground. Anything that contains water will conduct.
I did the test with the bucket full of pure new green af and a gallon of new Ford Gold VC7 and get the same effect with only very minor changes as I increase the distance between the lead and the grounded metal.

It made no difference if I used the red Supertech, green Motorcraft, or the gold Motorcraft or even oil the liquid gives me between 7 and 11.4v every time. When you put the pos lead into the coolant your forcing the coolant to become electrolyte backed by the battery's amperage. Only salt water would conduct more current.

If what your saying is true than the new af in the Bronco is also bad as is the new green, red, and gold af right out of the jug.
To me it sounds more like a salesman's trick than a legit test. The coolant would have to be a total insulator to not read voltage.

As one more test I took a jumper wire clipped to a penny and dropped it to the bottom of a new gallon of fresh Ford VC7B af (50/50 mix) with that lead connected to the negative battery terminal on my jumper box, and taking a 6" length of 10 ga. solid copper wire connected to the positive lead of the meter set on dc volts and the negative meter lead on the battery posituve terminal I get 11.53v of the 12.77v at the jumper pack itself and the copper wire starts sizzling.
This is a brand new just opened jug. There is no difference in the readings using the red Supertech (the jug that didn't freeze). As long as there is water in the solution its going to conduct the same as plain water. I don't know how it can't when a 12v potential is put into the water.
After doing this it sunk in that you said to put the neg lead on the neg terminal and test the coolant for voltage.
After re reading what you typed it makes less sense:

"Red Positive lead in the coolant
Black negative lead on the negative terminal"

Doing this give me no meter reaction because there's no connection to or through the coolant to read voltage. Its the same as being set on voltage and reading both ends of the negative battery cable with the leads?
I tried it for kicks and got no reading with any of 5 meters each set on the lowest or 'auto' voltage setting, There would need to be a 12v source somewere in the system shorted to the coolant for it to give a reading. With no voltage applied how can the meter see or read voltage? If there was there would be a pretty serious draw or corrosion issue on the vehicle.
The coolant is grounded just the same as the block or radiator is grounded.

"Red Positive lead in the coolant
Black negative lead on the negative terminal
Doing this give me no meter reaction "

The above is the correct way to do this. No voltage means good antifreeze.

"because there's no connection to or through the coolant to read voltage."

Uh, yes there is. Bad coolant conducts current. it forms an electric current between different types of metals immersed in a liquid that can conduct current. The meter can measure low DC volts if properly used.

What are you doing to get 11 volts? And sizzling wires?? Since you get that your doing it wrong.
You also said what I highlighted in red, which is the correct way to do the test, so what have you done differently to get 11 v DC and sizzling wires?

Somehow you are including the big start battery voltage into your test process.

There is never any such high voltage with galvanic corrosion. Highest is a little over 1 volt.

To eliminate the 12vdc car battery interfering, disconnect the car positive lead wire to battery and retest for galvanic voltage.
Put red meter wire in coolant (take off rad cap), touch black meter wire on the negative battery terminal. Set meter to DC volts appropriate low scale

 

[sdowney717]

Another site proves and verifies this is a legitimate test, explains how to do it.
for the black lead all you need is a DC ground on the vehicle, they used the metal radiator top
Other site said under 0.4 v is good, here it is 0.3 volts or lower. The lower the better.

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/cold-and-shocking-have-you-checked-the-voltage-of-your-coolant/

A little-known cooling system condition diagnostic trick is to measure the acidity level of the anti-freeze by reading the voltage of the coolant. No kidding. This is a simple test using either a digital voltmeter or an old school analog voltmeter. With an analog meter, set it to read to measure in the under 1-volt scale.

Place the negative lead on a suitable ground on the radiator – usually right on the body of the radiator assuming its aluminum or brass. Place the voltmeter’s positive lead so that the lead only touches the coolant and not the body of the radiator. This technique will generate a milli-volt reading on your digital voltmeter. OE specs generally accept 300 milli-volts or 0.30-volt (or less) as an acceptable level. Numbers approaching 600 milli-volts or higher indicate a very acidic coolant that needs service.