New Sealed Jug of Antifreeze froze and burst in trunk of car?
- Thread starter oldiron
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Reversing the polarity will just change volts to neg or pos reading. Best would be a zero reading.
His antifreeze passed freezing test, except it was too acidic
His antifreeze passed freezing test, except it was too acidic
if reading is too high, remove battery terminal and test again as could be stray voltage affecting test. Stray voltage is not good, means you have current leaking from bad wiring like positive wire touching a ground or a failing electrical part leaking current. Which I suppose is draining down the battery.
Where I used to work the boss didn't believe in coolant exchanges. If the freeze protection was OK it wasn't allowed to be touched. Expensive bus radiators and heater cores started failing and he could not understand it. It was going alkaline and making a mess of things. Testing with the voltmeter verified what was happening.
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^^^This^^^
I am employed by a major Truck/Diesel OEM as a Product Service Trainer. A few years back, I had to travel to various shops around the country for two major fleets to hold a 3 day, Fuel System and Aftertreatment course.
Did this for 3.5 years. I would make it a habit to stop in to various Walmarts, AAP’s, Autozone’s, etc, and pick up a gallon or so of DEF for a class demonstration. Nominal DEF concentration is 32.5% with our spec range being 31-35%. I would show the class using mine and their refractometers, just how many off-the-shelf jugs could be out of spec. Unfortunately, for those years I did this (pre-pandemic BTW), Supertech was the worst offender. This isn’t meant to be a knock against Supertech, just my observations. When Supertech was out, it was way out 24-25% or 38-39%.
Fleets buy in bulk, but the lesson is to always verify. Refractometers were always checked / calibrated with distilled water. I know this thread is about coolant, but same lesson applies IMHO.
Oil: Synthetic oil is great for long OCIs because it resists oxidation for longer. Guess what, oxidation is not the limiting factor for your use.
Coolant: "if it goes bad sitting" - it's not sitting. Even if you didn't drive it for two years, (hopefully) the coolant was doing its job at corrosion protection.
The voltmeter nonsense is an attempt to measure galvanic potential of the system. Galvanic corrosion is ONE type of corrosion, but it is not the only type present in mixed metals, oxygenated systems. The efficacy of corrosion inhibitors cannot reliably be measured via volt meter. Corrosion of mixed metal, oxygenated industrial systems with various corrosion inhibitors might just be something I address on a daily basis at my day job...on nuclear power plant components that cost a little more than a head gasket job on a powerstroke. In the end I'm proposing you spend $50 in coolant every 5 years on a truck known for cooling system related issues, rather than going by "it looks good" tests. Somehow I'm the ridiculous one.
On the other hand, you recognize that tires have aged out of service due to time (not mileage) yet you don't think that same approach could/should apply to maintenance fluids. Somehow chemicals/compounds in tires break down but that doesn't happen in your cooling system.
The coolants you reference going "long time" on big trucks get "recharged" in order to sustain cavitation protection. So that "refreshement" you speak of actually does something. Big trucks don't go 22 years on coolant. The "one million" mile modern coolant claim also goes on to say "10 years."
Listen dude, you act like oil, filters, and coolant are precious gold...they just don't make oil/filters/tires/coolant like they used to! Let me fill you in. They sell that stuff at the store. You can buy it every day. You know what they don't make anymore? 2005 6.0 Powerstroke with low miles. You're sacrificing the truck because you want to save precious consumables that you've stockpiled in your basement.
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So the consensus is that Walmart's Super Tech AF is a fraud?
I find it hard to believe that they sell millions of gallons of coolant and oil and its all subpar snake oil.
If they were selling automotive fluids that were dangerous to use they'd have been sued out of business years ago.
I can believe that some creative advertisement is at play on some items but work used that red coolant for years with no issues but a few bad gallons mixed into a huge system has far less effect then in a pickup truck.
If the positive terminals on the battery are disconnected then how would there be voltage in the coolant?
I tested my 03 and the 96 again and I get no reading between the ground terminal and the positive lead in the coolant. If water or coolant is a conductor, then its really no different than reading voltage at two ends of the same cable or across a metal surface.
Going on the fact that the ohms test in water or the coolant shows a 1v drop than it means the ground to fluid voltage test is going to show near perfect continuity thus no voltage?
Where is the voltage supposed to be coming from?
I find it hard to believe that they sell millions of gallons of coolant and oil and its all subpar snake oil.
If they were selling automotive fluids that were dangerous to use they'd have been sued out of business years ago.
I can believe that some creative advertisement is at play on some items but work used that red coolant for years with no issues but a few bad gallons mixed into a huge system has far less effect then in a pickup truck.
If the positive terminals on the battery are disconnected then how would there be voltage in the coolant?
I tested my 03 and the 96 again and I get no reading between the ground terminal and the positive lead in the coolant. If water or coolant is a conductor, then its really no different than reading voltage at two ends of the same cable or across a metal surface.
Going on the fact that the ohms test in water or the coolant shows a 1v drop than it means the ground to fluid voltage test is going to show near perfect continuity thus no voltage?
Where is the voltage supposed to be coming from?
No it is not. That’s silly.
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In a simple 12v automotive circuit, electrons (current/amperage) is flowing through the ground cables back to the battery with a tiny bit of voltage push, typically less than .2 volts on a properly functioning circuit. You have various grounding straps, all eventually leading back to the battery. One of those is the engine block. You do not want the coolant to become too conductive for the electrons, rather just the block. It’s not the coolant that’s conductive, just like water isn’t conductive -it’s the minerals and elements in the water that are conductive. As coolant becomes too acidic, rust and other minerals form making the coolant more conductive, thus giving the electrons an additional path to ground and electrolysis to occur and believe me, it is quite damaging. That’s what the multimeter is measuring.
Attached are pics from a Detroit Diesel DD13 in a firetruck with electrolysis damage.
This is the T-stat housing. Whole housing gets replaced when doing T-stat. This is electrolysis damage 6 weeks after having it installed.
Poor grounds can also cause this as well as A/C output from alternator but that’s another discussion.
Attached are pics from a Detroit Diesel DD13 in a firetruck with electrolysis damage.
This is the T-stat housing. Whole housing gets replaced when doing T-stat. This is electrolysis damage 6 weeks after having it installed.
Poor grounds can also cause this as well as A/C output from alternator but that’s another discussion.
Electricity takes the path of least resistance.
This truck has at least four ground cables on it. There's one from the battery to the alternator, one from the battery to the frame and engine block on each side from each battery and one from the head to the firewall that looks like a braided strap. (Plus another strap jumping the left front cab mount to the frame.
For a test, if this works then taking a battery, a tin cup or pan full of old antifreeze, and a meter set to volts, I should see some voltage between the neg terminal of the battery which is connected to the soup can, and the positive lead when it touches the coolant?
I get zero, the meter continues to hunt just as it did without being connected.
I don't see how its going to see voltage if there's no positive power supply to the coolant elsewhere. It can't generate current and the vehicle, with everything the coolant touches being grounded to the battery would need to see current somehow for it to conduct current. I'm also doing the same test with five meters here, three of them top grade equipment.
I have never had a cooling system that got rusty, ever. I ran my one LTD which was my daily beater with a 302 in it for 19 years. I bought it with 33k on it with a blown motor from the fire department. I stripped off the decals, pulled out the motor and found #2 cylinder wiped out. It had no warranty but I new that when I paid $900 for a three year old car at auction. I called around to the junk yards and found a wrecked '94 Mustang with 2,200 miles that had been wrapped around a tree. The motor and trans were both good. I put the 5 speed on the shelf and used the motor in the LTD.
To make it short, I made it work and it worked well. I ran that car for 19 years 265k before selling it not wanting to deal with having to repaint it. It ate the first transmission at 110k, I rebuilt it and never did anything to that car but oil and filter changes brakes and tires. It got partial coolant changes over the years with minor repairs, one being a new heater core at 65k, and another at 180k, but it was never drained and it got sold with all the original hoses, radiator, etc. The buyer drove it for 10 more years using it to tow his boat till he got old and died. I doubt he even checked under the hood if a light didn't come on, if ever.
I'm not saying I don't do maintanence but I can tell good af and oil from bad.
My Lincoln lets me know when it needs an oil change, I can here the difference in how the motor sounds and around the same time the oil starts to look dirty. Usually around 5,500 miles or so. I run only Mobil 1 5W30 in that car. Its also never had a coolant change or flush but the radiator had been out of it once after the trans cooler started to leak. It was topped off with about a gallon of fresh coolant on top of the clean original gold coolant it came with.
This truck has at least four ground cables on it. There's one from the battery to the alternator, one from the battery to the frame and engine block on each side from each battery and one from the head to the firewall that looks like a braided strap. (Plus another strap jumping the left front cab mount to the frame.
For a test, if this works then taking a battery, a tin cup or pan full of old antifreeze, and a meter set to volts, I should see some voltage between the neg terminal of the battery which is connected to the soup can, and the positive lead when it touches the coolant?
I get zero, the meter continues to hunt just as it did without being connected.
I don't see how its going to see voltage if there's no positive power supply to the coolant elsewhere. It can't generate current and the vehicle, with everything the coolant touches being grounded to the battery would need to see current somehow for it to conduct current. I'm also doing the same test with five meters here, three of them top grade equipment.
I have never had a cooling system that got rusty, ever. I ran my one LTD which was my daily beater with a 302 in it for 19 years. I bought it with 33k on it with a blown motor from the fire department. I stripped off the decals, pulled out the motor and found #2 cylinder wiped out. It had no warranty but I new that when I paid $900 for a three year old car at auction. I called around to the junk yards and found a wrecked '94 Mustang with 2,200 miles that had been wrapped around a tree. The motor and trans were both good. I put the 5 speed on the shelf and used the motor in the LTD.
To make it short, I made it work and it worked well. I ran that car for 19 years 265k before selling it not wanting to deal with having to repaint it. It ate the first transmission at 110k, I rebuilt it and never did anything to that car but oil and filter changes brakes and tires. It got partial coolant changes over the years with minor repairs, one being a new heater core at 65k, and another at 180k, but it was never drained and it got sold with all the original hoses, radiator, etc. The buyer drove it for 10 more years using it to tow his boat till he got old and died. I doubt he even checked under the hood if a light didn't come on, if ever.
I'm not saying I don't do maintanence but I can tell good af and oil from bad.
My Lincoln lets me know when it needs an oil change, I can here the difference in how the motor sounds and around the same time the oil starts to look dirty. Usually around 5,500 miles or so. I run only Mobil 1 5W30 in that car. Its also never had a coolant change or flush but the radiator had been out of it once after the trans cooler started to leak. It was topped off with about a gallon of fresh coolant on top of the clean original gold coolant it came with.
AND, these are less than $20.00.
If you're getting zero volts, then it is good.
Acidic antifreeze IS DEFINITELY an electrolyte solution, conducts current and you have created a functional low volage battery between radiator liquid and ground. You need to read up on galvanic potential created by noble and less noble metals immersed in an acidic solution.
How do you suppose a car battery works? It works by the same principle.
Your engine has iron and aluminum parts, these dissimilar metals create their own low voltage battery.
Disconnecting the positive lead on a battery, if the measured volts drop means you may have a poor chassis ground, one that has resistance. It is described in one of the videos.
If you do not like measuring volts, get some PH test strips to test for acidity. They are cheap on Amazon
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What’s kind of funny, in college, we have theory, and application.
Degrees and courses. Then, today, we have the project farm school which is like Consumer Reports. Observations without reliability and probably without validity—but actual observation.
So to chime in on the green and dexcool thing, I didn’t know. When I replaced my Maxima’s radiator all I had in the garage was dexcool so I used it. It drove 2012-2023 with a mix maybe 35-40% dexcool, the rest green. If it gel’d up I sure didn’t feel it.
