Redline is a high percentage ester oil composed of the best esters in the industry.
And yes, analysis labs do have a problem analyzing high ester oils for both oxidation and tbn. Most ester base oils start out with a tbn of 2.0.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, doesn't higher oil pressure create more engine wear? Maybe that's why Mobil keeps theirs low.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oils are only part of the oil flow/pressure equation. High oil pressures do not necessarily equate to good oil flow and engine protection.
Better oil flow lowers engine wear. High oil pressure is caused by restrictions in the engine and filter and by too high a viscosity of oil.
Too low a pressure is caused by too thin an oil and large clearances in worn engines. Redline oils have a starting oil viscosity greater than Mobil 1's.
Time will tell if Redline is really mom and apple pie.
[ July 06, 2003, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 8586 | From: Midwest | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |
Leo
Member
Member # 1380
posted July 06, 2003 19:12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dunno, I have seem to lost faith in Redline Products. From reading other websites i've come accross I have read _numerous_ reports about;
-MTL/MT90 causing premature synchro wear. Maybe it sacrifices the synchros for good shifting?
-Water Wetter sludging up coolant reservoir bottles. I wonder what the rest of the cooling system would be like.
-Their oils dont produce enough good UOAs. Some just seem to be lucky while others are very ordinary.
Is Redline really all they are cracked up to be? Seems that their SI-1 is the only thing I havent heard numerous bad reports about! I think I'll be sticking to M1. Its not the most exotic oil, but you cant go wrong with it...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 570 | From: Adelaide, Australia | Registered: Apr 2003 | IP: Logged |
JohnBrowning
Member
Member # 1417
posted July 06, 2003 19:48
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LEO I belive that you have read all of those things. I question the source of information though. It has been my experinces that shade tree tuners always look for a scape goat to make up for thier mechanical failures. I see it all the time in amature import raceing. Their is a lot to be said for self actulization! I have used all of redlines products at one time or another. Their is no way that water wetter if used properly could cause any sludgeing!I ran it year round for 3 years with no sludgeing or corrison. I use MTL in C5 corvettes and have not seen any problems!! I also use it in old corvettes that origanaly shiped with Whale Oil in their Muncie manual transmissions. Their is nothing that would convince me that MTL ate a syncro! I am not aware of any other GL4 compliant fully synthetic lube. Last I checked synchremesh was semisynthetic. No oil blender with their name on the bottle is going to misrate a fluid and open up the floodgates to litagation and class action suites.
Smokey Yunick has also used a Polyol based oil and said similar things. The parts look as though they have never touched. SMokey would not name the brand of oil. The only domestic polyol based oil I am aware of is Redline.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 5127 | From: USA | Registered: May 2003 | IP: Logged |
Pablo
Amsoil Sponsor
Member # 512
posted July 06, 2003 20:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Browning wrote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only domestic polyol based oil I am aware of is Redline
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By polyol, I assume you mean PAO or polyalphaolefin.....and all this time I thought that infamous (low -sic) price of Redline was because of the ester base...and that Amsoil and M1 are PAO based....hmmm....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 14679 | From: Duvall | Registered: Oct 2002 | IP: Logged |
MolaKule
Specialty Formulations
Member # 59
posted July 06, 2003 21:24
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Redline uses a majority of PE and Di-PE polyol esters (current jet engine lubes).
PAO's are not polyol esters. PAO's are synthesized hydrocarbons derived from and polymerized from petroleum gasses, such as ethylene and other gasses.
Amsoil uses PAO's and TMP polyol esters at last count.
NEO, and a few other companies, still use di-esters as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 8586 | From: Midwest | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |
MolaKule
Specialty Formulations
Member # 59
posted July 06, 2003 21:26
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leo,
If you have lost faith in Redline and don't want to pay the price, then don't use the ******* stuff.
However, I think your information, which you have not sourced, is incorrect.
[ July 06, 2003, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 8586 | From: Midwest | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |
Pablo
Amsoil Sponsor
Member # 512
posted July 06, 2003 21:57
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Molacule - that's why I like the full name used or a proper ancronym - not just a shortened common term.
As far as Redline - the few UOA's have indeed not been outstanding. Funny that some people say Amsoil is overpriced....but defend Redline. I tend to think Redline gear oils are nicely priced, but the motor oils are WAY too expensive.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 14679 | From: Duvall | Registered: Oct 2002 | IP: Logged |
mf150
Member
Member # 1362
posted July 06, 2003 22:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I swear by Red Line products. I'll take a bottle of Red Line over any other oil on the market today. I have had nothing but good experiences, and recently my engine was torn down (headgasket leak), the pistons, cylinders and all lubed parts looked **** and span. Th eengine was completely clean, so clean I could eat off of it.
I run 10W-30 in an 01 F-150 at 5,000 mile intervals.
I'll have words with anyone that tries to tell me that Red Line is inferior to any other oil.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 450 | From: The Bay Area | Registered: Apr 2003 | IP: Logged |
sprintman
Member
Member # 4
posted July 07, 2003 00:07
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pable I can't agree no outstanding RL UOA's (they are here somewhere a 5W30 and a 5W40 are two that I remember) BUT I agree gear oil excellent/well priced but engine oil just too expensive here **28 US quart for non racing use.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4368 | From: Canberra ACT Australia | Registered: May 2002 | IP: Logged |
sprintman
Member
Member # 4
posted July 07, 2003 00:12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pable I can't agree no outstanding RL UOA's (they are here somewhere a 5W30 and a 5W40 are two that I remember) BUT I agree gear oil is excellent & well priced but engine oil just too expensive here IMO (**28 US quart) for non racing use.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4368 | From: Canberra ACT Australia | Registered: May 2002 | IP: Logged |
Shannow
Member
Member # 702
posted July 07, 2003 02:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
Smokey Yunick has also used a Polyol based oil and said similar things. The parts look as though they have never touched. SMokey would not name the brand of oil. The only domestic polyol based oil I am aware of is Redline.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JMB, the oil that Smokey used at Indy was "Allproof", whatever that ended up being in today's parlence.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4917 | From: Lithgow, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged |
Patman
Administrator
Member # 6
posted July 07, 2003 02:50
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know I've posted this link a lot, and I know it's just one UOA, but it's still the best UOA on here, and it's in a sludge monster Toyota no less!
Redline 5w30:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000340
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 14315 | From: Mississauga, Ontario | Registered: May 2002 | IP: Logged |
Leo
Member
Member # 1380
posted July 07, 2003 03:35
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not baggin Redline straight out, but I believe there is no clear cut answer whether they truely are better than the competition in your average car. Sure on paper they seem the best, but good specs dont neccesarily mean good results. I believe RL really show their colours in hard driven applications, like my car which produces 150hp/L, not your average grocery hauler/highway cruiser.
Molakule, The reason I didnt not source my comments is because we're not allowed to post URLs outside this website. And I know what I read, so dont say what I read was incorrect. If you want the URLs, then PM me, np!
Btw, I dont want to start an argument over RL vs everyone else, just posting my opinion. Nevertheless I still wouldnt mind giving their oils a shot! Just thinking twice about Water Wetter etc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 570 | From: Adelaide, Australia | Registered: Apr 2003 | IP: Logged |
Dr. T
Member
Member # 29
posted July 07, 2003 07:19
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 questions:
1. Does anyone know of a European-sourced/manufactured Polyol ester based oil? ie. Euro. equiv. of RL?
2. Where's the best priced Redline in Toronto??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2392 | Registered: May 2002 | IP: Logged |
Patman
Administrator
Member # 6
posted July 07, 2003 08:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Dr. T:
2 questions:
1. Does anyone know of a European-sourced/manufactured Polyol ester based oil? ie. Euro. equiv. of RL?
2. Where's the best priced Redline in Toronto??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check your PMs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 14315 | From: Mississauga, Ontario | Registered: May 2002 | IP: Logged |
Bror Jace
Member
Member # 20
posted July 07, 2003 08:25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think JohnBrowning is correct. People who use Red Line are likely to run their car(s) the hardest. They are not a fair sample population. And in those cases even seemingly “mediocre” test results are an accomplishment. And having said that, we’ve seen some really good Red Line UOA results here as well, that Toyota Sienna Patman references being the best example to date ... possibly the best UOA on this board.
As for Water Wetter, I ran this in my Honda Civic with the same coolant for 6 YEARS. When I had the timing belt (& water pump) changed, the was coolant drained and it still looked brand new. If others are getting sludge in their coolant bottles, it’s from a leaky headgasket or some other problem, not the Water Wetter. Of course, I don’t have any evidence that it was doing anything good in my car, I just bought a bottle and split it between several small-capacity cooling systems as a preventative.
As for MTL, Bogatyr and I have used this in Integra and Civic trannies for over a half million miles combined. No problems with any of the trannies … even as they approached 200,000 miles. The elimination of cold-weather graunch alone has to reduce some of the wear the tranny would normally be experiencing with a factory fluid. The Civic Coupe I just sold still shifted like brand new at 100,000 miles and I shifted like it was nobody’s business every d@mn day I drove it. Based on my experience with the Hondas, I’ll be using a mixture of MTL and MT-90 in my ‘03 Nissan Sentra’s 6-speed. It calls for some mysterious 75W85 oil and can’t think of a better choice than a blend of the Red Line fluids (70W80 MTL and 75W90 MT-90).
Leo, I’m guessing what you’ve read about MTL comes from “Mista Bone,” a well known Honda tuner on the use.net forums. I think he’s a very knowledgeable guy but kids who abuse their cars bring them to him. He knocks them apart and finds torn up trannies … and blames the MTL many are using. He’s been knocking the stuff for years and I think it’s either a habit he’s unwilling to break or it’s something personal. His latest take is that the Red Line tranny fluids dissolve some sort of plastic seal in the RSX tranny. I can’t say much about this … but Honda should only put oil-resistant seals in their boxes and if something gets dissolved when using a common aftermarket fluid, it’s the manufacturer’s fault. If I had an RSX, I’d use MTL in it based on my decade of previous positive experience with it in Hondas/Acuras.
I used Red Line engine oils in my Civic over a year ago but a coolant leak (verified) skewed the results a bit. I will be switching to Schaffer Supreme later this summer at around 7,000 miles (3rd change) and will start doing UOAs. Next year I will give Red Line another try, hopefully a few runs in a row, ~6,000 miles each.
For you folks outside the United States who think that Red Line is dreadfully overpriced, you might be right ... but even then it’s probably a distributor and/or tax issue and not Red Line’s fault directly. Even though I like their products a great deal, I doubt I’d pay over $8 per quart for anything other than their gear oils. But fortunately, I live the United States and at $8 per quart, it might only cost me an extra $20-30 per year to run Red Line in my engine … which is peanuts compared to the overall cost of operating a car for the same period of time.
--- Bror Jace
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3549 | From: Saratoga, NY | Registered: May 2002 | IP: Logged |
