New minivan- Honda or Toyota?

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: refaller
I think you are correct that noise is about the only issue. I believe someone has told me that belts can rev more as well, but I am not sure if they had evidence. I certainly would prefer a chain, but changing the belt on my CRV was doable and I will probably only have to do it once- material and tool costs were a little over $200 for new belt, water pump and gaskets- needed a bigger torque wrench as well.

ref


I'll throw this in there too. On the Gates site, there is an industrial belt called the Poly Carbon or something to that effect that is 2 to 3 times stronger than even a chain and lasts longer. It is only for industrial apps though.

Why in 2008 have we still not seen a timing belt that is designed to go 150K, 200Kk or more? They are still 60K or 105K and a Subaru that is 120K. Maybe there is one I don't know about, but I haven't seen one yet.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: berge
I told my wife to pick between an odyysey, sienna and an entourage.

she chose the Hyundai.
she's happy, so I'm happy.


Wish I could have the persuasive powers needed to have my wife choose among three vehicles. I wanted her to purchase a newer Corolla, Fit, Yaris, or Versa. She "had to have" a Saturn VUE. I tried to tell here that the small economy car is cheaper to run, blah blah, but she just wouldn't bite on it. Now, were getting 21/26 mpg vs the 3x/40 highway mileage with the cars I listed. We don't even have kids yet, so I still didn't get the reason she wanted a cute ute.

 

[BarkerMan]

In dyno testing of late model chain drive engines we see some harmonic's (spelling?) that pop up at different rpm ranges but nothing that would effect a street engine. Our concern is that in one racing engine these wiggles excited valve spring bounce that had to be tuned out. I think chains are better and competition among brands for longer runs without service might have been reason enough for the change to what appears to be a more expensive setup to build. Another advantage is that service on the front of the engine is a bit less complicated like in changing a water pump. My 67 Datsun has a chain drive and it's been bullet proof. It will start talking to you long before it's going to take a dump. With a belt you get loss of power and a light show on your dash and many times you get an unwanted valve adjustment if your lucky and ventilated pistons or a cracked head if you're not.

Are there really any bad mini-van choices out there? To pick one don't you just count the cup holders and multiply times the number of DVD players and the highest number wins?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: MrCritical
Does the Odyssey use a t-belt or chain? If it's a belt, I'd buy the TOyota.


As Mike noted above, the Honda still uses a belt, and the Toyota a chain. Also noted above, there may be an issue with maintenance on the Toyota's water pump. When the same engine (2GR-FE V-6) is installed in a V-6 Camry, a water pump swap requires (at least per the Toyota pubs) an engine removal. Dunno if the same is true of the 2GR installed in the Sienna, or if there's an alternate procedure that does not require an engine removal.


I'll be dealing with that lovely timing belt on my Honda 3.5. Latest quote from the local dealer....drum roll....1250 + tax. Whew! Glad that service is only every 100K. In fairness, for that price you get the plugs changed, fuel filter, water pump, crank seal, and timing belt.

I wanted to have the dealer install a block heater...drum roll...375-400 bucks. This 3.5 is so shoe horned into the small VUE body that there isn't a lot of room to do anything.

Not complaining, just letting others know some advantages or disadvantages to timing belt driven vehicles, etc. In fairness on the block heater work, it can be very difficult to install one on larger displacement V-6 engines. Now, I use a 40 dollar oil pan heater if the temps get under 0F. Just hate having to get under the vehicle every night and every morning to attach it. And it is aluminum so I have to jury rig the magnet to stay on there!

Honda and Toyota V6s are very popular around the SF Bay Area, so many shops are equipped and ready to do timing belt service on these engines. I regularly see advertisements for a complete timing belt job with dealer parts (Belt, water pump, drive belts, tensioner and tensioner roller) for less than $700.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
...

Elkpolk or anyone else, what is the downside of a timing chain or rather what is the advantage of a timing belt. I can't think of anything good about a belt right now.


The chains are very durable. In some engines, notably the VQ35, there is an issue of "timing chain rattle" which is a sound typically heard very briefly on startup before the oil pressure rises sufficiently to operate the chain tensioner. Nissan had a TSB about this for some VQ35 vehicles. For the most part, it's just an annoyance (so long as it doesn't persist past a couple seconds). So no, I really see no substantial downside to the chains. I'd be hard-pressed to choose a belt engine if a remotely decent chain-driven competitor was available. If I were making the choice which started this thread, I'd go Toyota then Nissan (realizing that Nissan was not one of the choices...). Not solely for the chains, but other things too that reflect my own preferences. That said, I think the Honda is a good vehicle too.

 

[Brett Miller]

Been doing some more research. An aftermarket hitch installs easily on either van. I emailed my local Honda dealer to see if the coolers were required to maintain warranty if I use only a bike rack.

 

[artificialist]

My mom drove cute-ute vehicles because she like the higher ride height, and also the styling. She doesn't even like the look of cute-ute vehicles where the manufacturer took great care to make the vehicle more aerodynamic.

She drove a 1999 Honda CRV, until she crashed it in 2002. Then she bought a Toyota Solara, but got tired of it, and bought a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee because it was a good deal, and felt more well-built than comparable vehicles.

 

[refaller]

According to my owner's manual, you can tow up to 1000 lbs without any additional coolers. I am thinking of adding a tranny cooler in the hopes that it helps the longevity of the tranny. Plus, it would be nice to add that bike rack.

ref

 

[Tosh]

Originally Posted By: refaller
According to my owner's manual, you can tow up to 1000 lbs without any additional coolers. I am thinking of adding a tranny cooler in the hopes that it helps the longevity of the tranny. Plus, it would be nice to add that bike rack.

ref

First of all, ask the dealership that would handle any of your warranty claims which 'accessories' (coolers, hitches, racks, etc.) they would approve (and get it in writing).
Second, wouldn't the weight of your favorite uncle be much more than a rack filled with bikes?
Third, Honda trannies fail regardless of any babying and extra cooling.

 

[The Critic]

I just found out yesterday that the Avalon 2GR-FE does not require engine removal for the water pump job. This is probably due to the wider engine bay.

You may want to check if this is true for the Sienna as well.

 

[refaller]

I am out of warranty so I do not worry about Honda. I have yet to run into someone with whatever generation Ody I have that has had a bad transmission. My CRV had an issue that was taken care of under warranty. It will be interesting to see how long I remain problem free with the Ody- only have 3 years and 37000 miles on it currently, but I love everything about it.

ref

 

[Brett Miller]

Emailed the dealer- they will put on the invoice that adding a hitch for the sole use of a bike rack will not void warranty. They have had several customers do the same thing.

 

[Brett Miller]

Pulled the trigger tonight and purchased a 2008 Sienna LE. I really liked both vans but the softer ride of the Toyota and 1.9% financing were the deciding factors. Thanks to everyone for their input!

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: Brett Miller
Emailed the dealer- they will put on the invoice that adding a hitch for the sole use of a bike rack will not void warranty. They have had several customers do the same thing.


You should do what you need to for "legal comfort," but do realize that virtually nothing "voids" a US new car wty. For sure, you can do things that will result in a specific wty claim being denied, but the wty itself will not be "voided" in any sense, as much as the mfrs want you to believe this.

Enjoy the new Sienna!