New minivan- Honda or Toyota?

[biomed_eng_2000]

You can't go wrong with either one.

Bottom line...test drive both of them.

I test drove both of them and chose the Sienna.

On the other hand, my good friend only drives BMWs but had to buy a minivan, he chose the Honda minivan.

 

[Alan]

Sienna's are the better vehicle.

The Hyundai Entourage is also a pretty kick butt van too.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

I think great deals can be found on 1 to 2 year old KIA Sedona minivans. I like the looks of them, and have heard they are actually a decent mini van for not a lot of money.

 

[Brett Miller]

I've been doing a little more research....I need a trailer hitch for bike rack. Installing a hitch on the Odyssey looks like a nightmare. Installation on the Sienna is a piece of cake. Doesn't look like I could go wrong either way.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Brett Miller
I've been doing a little more research....I need a trailer hitch for bike rack. Installing a hitch on the Odyssey looks like a nightmare. Installation on the Sienna is a piece of cake. Doesn't look like I could go wrong either way.

You might want to install the Power Steering and Transmission coolers on the Sienna as well, even if they aren't required.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
I'd consider trans failure before 150K to be premature. They should be able to make it to 200K assuming there isn't any abuse or towing.

In the past, maybe, but these days the transmissions have to handle 260+ HP compared to 2/3 of that amount ten years ago. While you'd think that transmission durability has kept up with the power increases, this hasn't been the case. Also, remember that OEMs do not design the transmissions to last 250k, or even 200k. They expect a majority of the units to last past the 150k mark, but anything after that, they don't know or care.

 

[berge]

I told my wife to pick between an odyysey, sienna and an entourage.

she chose the Hyundai.
she's happy, so I'm happy.

 

[The Critic]

Back home, I used to see a fairly equal number of 99-04 Siennas and Odysseys. Recently, I see very, very few Odysseys and mostly Siennas (many of the 04+) models. I wonder if it's due to the transmission issues with the last generation Odyssey that caused Honda to lose many of its loyal customers...

 

[ShiningArcanine]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
The Honda will need a timing belt job every 100,000 miles. Depending on who performs the job, it runs between $600 to $1000. The biggest advantage of the Honda is the availability of an 8-year/120,000 mile extended warranty (most only go up to 7-yr/100k) for about $1200, which covers those infamous power sliding doors and items that tend to break with heavy use.

Depending on the model you purchase, the Sienna may have more incentives so the purchase price may be lower. It also uses a timing chain instead of a timing belt. However, as I posted a while back, water pump or timing chain replacement on the 3.5L V6 engine requires engine/transaxle removal. Depending on how often the water pump fails, it may end up costing the same as the Odyssey, which requires periodic timing belt jobs.

The transmission in either vehicle shouldn't be prone to premature failures. Both have a dipstick and a drain plug, and the fluid is available at the dealer for about $6-$7/qt. (Yes, the price of Toyota WS has dropped significantly) However I don't trust either transmission past the 150k mark, as most of them seem to fail at about that time. Rebuilds run under $3k for the Honda and about $3500 (???) for the Toyota.

Also, you may want to consider the Saturn Outlook. It delivers the SAME fuel economy as the minivans but I think it may be a roomier and more comfortable vehicle.


Reliability wise, it would be advisable for him to only consider Honda and Toyota. They are the two with the statistically highest reliability for the past two decades. Considering anything else could potentially be very expensive in the long run, either repair wise or depreciation wise (if he is into selling his old cars).

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Back home, I used to see a fairly equal number of 99-04 Siennas and Odysseys. Recently, I see very, very few Odysseys and mostly Siennas (many of the 04+) models. I wonder if it's due to the transmission issues with the last generation Odyssey that caused Honda to lose many of its loyal customers...


If they were loyal customers, Honda would not have lost them. People buy Toyotas and Hondas for their reliability. If they lose that, they lose their sales.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted By: crj19
Check out a new 2008 Chrysler van, took one on a trip with 4 kids over the holidays... Much improved and very nice van.


I agree!

Another nice minivan is the Nissan.

 

[ekpolk]

The Nissan is nice too, especially since they redid that awful center dash it had when initially introduced.

I'm perplexed by one thing about the Nissan. Though it has the wonderful VQ35 engine, in the Quest, it's only rated for 235 hp, whereas in cars like the Maxima and G35, it's pumped up to around 300 hp. Not that a van needs 300 hp, but OTOH, the Toyota and Honda are each around 30-40 hp more potent than the Quest. Baffling (at least to me).

 

[refaller]

My wife and I love our Ody. The only two vans she liked were the Toyota and the Honda- she wouldn't even test drive the Quest (this was before the redesign of the center console). Personally, I liked how the Quest and Ody drove the best. Go about 35mph and do a panic stop. The Ody and Quest quickly and without much body roll came to a stop. The Sienna rocked all over the place and the saleslady was [censored] at me. I am a big believer in test driving and picking what you like the most. For my wife, the Ody won hands down. After picking what we want, then I worry about the price. Can't speak to longevity yet- only 36,000 miles and I have already changed the tranny fluid 1 time. Interestingly, the Toyota dealer told my the Sienna had timing belt.

ref

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: refaller
...Interestingly, the Toyota dealer told my the Sienna had timing belt.

ref


For its first couple years of production, the current version of the Sienna was powered by the 3MZ-FE 3.3L V-6. This engine, the last of the MZ series, did have a timing belt, not a chain. A year or two ago, they upgraded the engine to the 3.5L 2GR-FE. This engine has chains. If you were buying yours a couple years ago, they were right. But not now.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: MrCritical
Does the Odyssey use a t-belt or chain? If it's a belt, I'd buy the TOyota.


As Mike noted above, the Honda still uses a belt, and the Toyota a chain. Also noted above, there may be an issue with maintenance on the Toyota's water pump. When the same engine (2GR-FE V-6) is installed in a V-6 Camry, a water pump swap requires (at least per the Toyota pubs) an engine removal. Dunno if the same is true of the 2GR installed in the Sienna, or if there's an alternate procedure that does not require an engine removal.


I'll be dealing with that lovely timing belt on my Honda 3.5. Latest quote from the local dealer....drum roll....1250 + tax. Whew! Glad that service is only every 100K. In fairness, for that price you get the plugs changed, fuel filter, water pump, crank seal, and timing belt.

I wanted to have the dealer install a block heater...drum roll...375-400 bucks. This 3.5 is so shoe horned into the small VUE body that there isn't a lot of room to do anything.

Not complaining, just letting others know some advantages or disadvantages to timing belt driven vehicles, etc. In fairness on the block heater work, it can be very difficult to install one on larger displacement V-6 engines. Now, I use a 40 dollar oil pan heater if the temps get under 0F. Just hate having to get under the vehicle every night and every morning to attach it. And it is aluminum so I have to jury rig the magnet to stay on there!

 

[ekpolk]

Wow. Just for the record, the VQ35 in the Quest has chain driven cams, not a belt.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Wow. Just for the record, the VQ35 in the Quest has chain driven cams, not a belt.


When the VUE retires down the road, my next vehicle to replace it will have a timing chain in it. Not a big deal to some, but it would be nice to avoid a hefty fee at 60,000 or 100,000 miles.

 

[BarkerMan]

Does a timing change throw higher wear numbers in a uoa?

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: BarkerMan
Does a timing change throw higher wear numbers in a uoa?


Not that I've seen in my timing chain engines. Neither my VQ35 nor my Toyota 1NZ-FE, both chain engines, have shown any signs of high metal from the chain, or any other source for that matter.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: BarkerMan
Does a timing change throw higher wear numbers in a uoa?


Not that I've seen in my timing chain engines. Neither my VQ35 nor my Toyota 1NZ-FE, both chain engines, have shown any signs of high metal from the chain, or any other source for that matter.


I agree with elkpolk. I just don't see the downside of a timing chain, except maybe it is louder. My little Saturn has a timing chain with no recommended change out. Over on the Saturn Fans forum there are many people with 200K+ miles on the same timing chain.

Elkpolk or anyone else, what is the downside of a timing chain or rather what is the advantage of a timing belt. I can't think of anything good about a belt right now.

 

[refaller]

I think you are correct that noise is about the only issue. I believe someone has told me that belts can rev more as well, but I am not sure if they had evidence. I certainly would prefer a chain, but changing the belt on my CRV was doable and I will probably only have to do it once- material and tool costs were a little over $200 for new belt, water pump and gaskets- needed a bigger torque wrench as well.

ref