...
New information on PZ Ultra composition
- Thread starter Tom NJ
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: buster
Did you read the part where the Shell chemist said Grp III's have better solvency?
Did you read the part where Redline has protected my engine soo well that it now has over 246,000 miles on it and runs like new, and is spotless inside?????
Did you read the part where the Shell chemist said Grp III's have better solvency?
Did you read the part where Redline has protected my engine soo well that it now has over 246,000 miles on it and runs like new, and is spotless inside?????
Originally Posted By: qship1996
Originally Posted By: buster
Did you read the part where the Shell chemist said Grp III's have better solvency?
Did you read the part where Redline has protected my engine soo well that it now has over 246,000 miles on it and runs like new, and is spotless inside?????
That's great to hear and I too use Redline in some of my engines but Redline's success in your case says nothing about any other oil.
Originally Posted By: buster
Did you read the part where the Shell chemist said Grp III's have better solvency?
Did you read the part where Redline has protected my engine soo well that it now has over 246,000 miles on it and runs like new, and is spotless inside?????
That's great to hear and I too use Redline in some of my engines but Redline's success in your case says nothing about any other oil.
Originally Posted By: qship1996
Originally Posted By: buster
Did you read the part where the Shell chemist said Grp III's have better solvency?
Did you read the part where Redline has protected my engine soo well that it now has over 246,000 miles on it and runs like new, and is spotless inside?????
What does that have to do with it?
Originally Posted By: buster
Did you read the part where the Shell chemist said Grp III's have better solvency?
Did you read the part where Redline has protected my engine soo well that it now has over 246,000 miles on it and runs like new, and is spotless inside?????
What does that have to do with it?
Originally Posted By: buster
Did you read the part where the Shell chemist said Grp III's have better solvency?
Yes but then he saves his [censored] by saying this:
Quote:
He added, however, that the type of base stock in use is selected to aid the formulator in achieving the desired product performance.
So case in point, clever marketing where someone with Dr. in front of their name carefully choosing the right semantics so as to potentially fool the layperson into believing that a primarily Group III formulation has better solvency than a primarily Group IV formulation.
Brilliant! That's marketing for you.
Did you read the part where the Shell chemist said Grp III's have better solvency?
Yes but then he saves his [censored] by saying this:
Quote:
He added, however, that the type of base stock in use is selected to aid the formulator in achieving the desired product performance.
So case in point, clever marketing where someone with Dr. in front of their name carefully choosing the right semantics so as to potentially fool the layperson into believing that a primarily Group III formulation has better solvency than a primarily Group IV formulation.
Brilliant! That's marketing for you.
Originally Posted By: buster
Did you read the part where the Shell chemist said Grp III's have better solvency?
He was speaking about financial solvency.
The more Group III Shell can perpetrate, as an ultimate synthetic, the more solvent the company will be.
Did you read the part where the Shell chemist said Grp III's have better solvency?
He was speaking about financial solvency.
The more Group III Shell can perpetrate, as an ultimate synthetic, the more solvent the company will be.
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: buster
Did you read the part where the Shell chemist said Grp III's have better solvency?
He was speaking about financial solvency.
The more Group III Shell can perpetrate, as an ultimate synthetic, the more solvent the company will be.
LOL!!!
There are different ways to add solvency to your oil.
qship, you put way too much emphasis on the base oil. lol And I just may use PU at some point. Seems like a good oil all things considered. Repeat for qship "all things considered".
The top tier Grp III base oils are pretty close to PAO's in performance. PAO's have lower volatility a few other advantages. It's no wonder most companies are blending III/IV/V base oils.
Originally Posted By: buster
Did you read the part where the Shell chemist said Grp III's have better solvency?
He was speaking about financial solvency.
The more Group III Shell can perpetrate, as an ultimate synthetic, the more solvent the company will be.
LOL!!!
There are different ways to add solvency to your oil.
qship, you put way too much emphasis on the base oil. lol And I just may use PU at some point. Seems like a good oil all things considered. Repeat for qship "all things considered".
The top tier Grp III base oils are pretty close to PAO's in performance. PAO's have lower volatility a few other advantages. It's no wonder most companies are blending III/IV/V base oils.
Originally Posted By: qship1996
My point is ......even IF true, what would "better solvency" have done for me and my engine that group 5 {Redline} hasnt???????
Better sovency????/
Group III may have slightly better solvency than PAO, but it has nothing on POE.
My point is ......even IF true, what would "better solvency" have done for me and my engine that group 5 {Redline} hasnt???????
Better sovency????/
Group III may have slightly better solvency than PAO, but it has nothing on POE.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Group III may have slightly better solvency than PAO, but it has nothing on POE.
Is this based on a gut feeling or some sort of tangible proof?
Group III may have slightly better solvency than PAO, but it has nothing on POE.
Is this based on a gut feeling or some sort of tangible proof?
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Tangible proof, and easily verifiable with some searching.
Common, what's with the games? If you can help everyone with this ground breaking "proof", let's see it.
Tangible proof, and easily verifiable with some searching.
Common, what's with the games? If you can help everyone with this ground breaking "proof", let's see it.
Originally Posted By: CompSyn
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Tangible proof, and easily verifiable with some searching.
Common, what's with the games? If you can help everyone with this ground breaking "proof", let's see it.
There's no games, I'm just surprised this isn't common knowledge around here by now. It's been covered so much now I didn't think anything more was required.
Originally Posted By: ExxonMobil
ESTERS
Organic esters used in synthetic lubricants are specifically designed to perform under operational extremes. They are the reaction products of a variety of alcohols and acids, which in turn lead to various ester types of predetermined molecular structure. Primarily oxygen-containing branched hydrocarbons that are thermally and oxidatively stable, these esters have high viscosity indices, and are free from undesirable and unstable impurities found in conventional petroleum-based oils. The esters are structurally differentiated from PAO due to the presence of multiple ester linkages (COOR) which impart polarity to the ester molecules. The polar nature of these esters drives many of their performance features, which include:
* Good thermal and oxidative stability that allows the ester to operate over a broad temperature range
* Low volatility and no volatile organic compounds, resulting in lower rates of evaporative loss
* Improved solvency, which leads to cleaner lubrication and/or improved additive solubility
* Lubricity that can enhance the performance of PAO or mineral oil- based lubricants
* Biodegradability features that allow formulation of products with environmental benefits.
Esters used in synthetic lubricants generally fall into five categories: Mono Esters, Dibasic Esters, Aromatic Esters (Phthalates and Trimellitates), Polyol Esters and Complex Polymeric Esters. ExxonMobil Chemical markets esters from each of the categories under the Esterex(TM) tradename, as shown in the product line chart.
It is generally recognized that polyol esters can enable a lubricant to achieve higher performance levels under extreme operating conditions. The differentiation chart shows how a unique Esterex polyol ester can offer performance advantages versus more conventional polyol ester.
The use of PAO and esters provides the formulator with a great deal of versatility in lubricant design. They can be used as the sole basestock for certain applications such as PAO in engine oils or esters in jet turbine lubes. They can also be used in combination with each other or with other less polar basestocks (e.g. mineral oils) to provide complementary performance. For example, esters are used with PAO to improve seal compatibility and provide additive solubility in a variety of automotive and industrial lubricant applications.
http://www.allbusiness.com/chemicals/petrochemicals-industry-petrochemicals/11436052-1.html
Esters are commonly added in small amounts to group III/IV oils to enhance additive solubility/solvency/seal swell/polarity.
Look at POEs used in refrigerants, there they are used because of their extreme solvency. Group III actually isn't particularly solvent, perhaps moreso than PAO (when used by itself, which is almost never done) given Shell's statements, but I think they are splitting hairs there. Group III and PAO are actually the least polar of all the usual base oils.
Now scroll down to page 17 here: http://www.synmaxperformancelubricants.c...resentation.pdf
TomNJ is the resident expert on esters, perhaps he will chime in.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Tangible proof, and easily verifiable with some searching.
Common, what's with the games? If you can help everyone with this ground breaking "proof", let's see it.
There's no games, I'm just surprised this isn't common knowledge around here by now. It's been covered so much now I didn't think anything more was required.
Originally Posted By: ExxonMobil
ESTERS
Organic esters used in synthetic lubricants are specifically designed to perform under operational extremes. They are the reaction products of a variety of alcohols and acids, which in turn lead to various ester types of predetermined molecular structure. Primarily oxygen-containing branched hydrocarbons that are thermally and oxidatively stable, these esters have high viscosity indices, and are free from undesirable and unstable impurities found in conventional petroleum-based oils. The esters are structurally differentiated from PAO due to the presence of multiple ester linkages (COOR) which impart polarity to the ester molecules. The polar nature of these esters drives many of their performance features, which include:
* Good thermal and oxidative stability that allows the ester to operate over a broad temperature range
* Low volatility and no volatile organic compounds, resulting in lower rates of evaporative loss
* Improved solvency, which leads to cleaner lubrication and/or improved additive solubility
* Lubricity that can enhance the performance of PAO or mineral oil- based lubricants
* Biodegradability features that allow formulation of products with environmental benefits.
Esters used in synthetic lubricants generally fall into five categories: Mono Esters, Dibasic Esters, Aromatic Esters (Phthalates and Trimellitates), Polyol Esters and Complex Polymeric Esters. ExxonMobil Chemical markets esters from each of the categories under the Esterex(TM) tradename, as shown in the product line chart.
It is generally recognized that polyol esters can enable a lubricant to achieve higher performance levels under extreme operating conditions. The differentiation chart shows how a unique Esterex polyol ester can offer performance advantages versus more conventional polyol ester.
The use of PAO and esters provides the formulator with a great deal of versatility in lubricant design. They can be used as the sole basestock for certain applications such as PAO in engine oils or esters in jet turbine lubes. They can also be used in combination with each other or with other less polar basestocks (e.g. mineral oils) to provide complementary performance. For example, esters are used with PAO to improve seal compatibility and provide additive solubility in a variety of automotive and industrial lubricant applications.
http://www.allbusiness.com/chemicals/petrochemicals-industry-petrochemicals/11436052-1.html
Esters are commonly added in small amounts to group III/IV oils to enhance additive solubility/solvency/seal swell/polarity.
Look at POEs used in refrigerants, there they are used because of their extreme solvency. Group III actually isn't particularly solvent, perhaps moreso than PAO (when used by itself, which is almost never done) given Shell's statements, but I think they are splitting hairs there. Group III and PAO are actually the least polar of all the usual base oils.
Now scroll down to page 17 here: http://www.synmaxperformancelubricants.c...resentation.pdf
TomNJ is the resident expert on esters, perhaps he will chime in.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: CompSyn
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Tangible proof, and easily verifiable with some searching.
Common, what's with the games? If you can help everyone with this ground breaking "proof", let's see it.
There's no games, I'm just surprised this isn't common knowledge around here by now. It's been covered so much now I didn't think anything more was required.
Originally Posted By: ExxonMobil
ESTERS
Organic esters used in synthetic lubricants are specifically designed to perform under operational extremes. They are the reaction products of a variety of alcohols and acids, which in turn lead to various ester types of predetermined molecular structure. Primarily oxygen-containing branched hydrocarbons that are thermally and oxidatively stable, these esters have high viscosity indices, and are free from undesirable and unstable impurities found in conventional petroleum-based oils. The esters are structurally differentiated from PAO due to the presence of multiple ester linkages (COOR) which impart polarity to the ester molecules. The polar nature of these esters drives many of their performance features, which include:
* Good thermal and oxidative stability that allows the ester to operate over a broad temperature range
* Low volatility and no volatile organic compounds, resulting in lower rates of evaporative loss
* Improved solvency, which leads to cleaner lubrication and/or improved additive solubility
* Lubricity that can enhance the performance of PAO or mineral oil- based lubricants
* Biodegradability features that allow formulation of products with environmental benefits.
Esters used in synthetic lubricants generally fall into five categories: Mono Esters, Dibasic Esters, Aromatic Esters (Phthalates and Trimellitates), Polyol Esters and Complex Polymeric Esters. ExxonMobil Chemical markets esters from each of the categories under the Esterex(TM) tradename, as shown in the product line chart.
It is generally recognized that polyol esters can enable a lubricant to achieve higher performance levels under extreme operating conditions. The differentiation chart shows how a unique Esterex polyol ester can offer performance advantages versus more conventional polyol ester.
The use of PAO and esters provides the formulator with a great deal of versatility in lubricant design. They can be used as the sole basestock for certain applications such as PAO in engine oils or esters in jet turbine lubes. They can also be used in combination with each other or with other less polar basestocks (e.g. mineral oils) to provide complementary performance. For example, esters are used with PAO to improve seal compatibility and provide additive solubility in a variety of automotive and industrial lubricant applications.
http://www.allbusiness.com/chemicals/petrochemicals-industry-petrochemicals/11436052-1.html
Esters are commonly added in small amounts to group III/IV oils to enhance additive solubility/solvency/seal swell/polarity.
Look at POEs used in refrigerants, there they are used because of their extreme solvency. Group III actually isn't particularly solvent, perhaps moreso than PAO (when used by itself, which is almost never done) given Shell's statements, but I think they are splitting hairs there. Group III and PAO are actually the least polar of all the usual base oils.
Now scroll down to page 17 here: http://www.synmaxperformancelubricants.c...resentation.pdf
TomNJ is the resident expert on esters, perhaps he will chime in.
Thank you. We're not in disagreement.
I've just been trying to clarify with you that a lubricant that is properly formulated whether it be from primarily Group III base stocks or from Group IV (PAO) base stocks can have equally as good or better characteristics over the other based on the Ester content or other additives used by the formulator.
So a properly formulated Group III formulation COULD be better than an improperly formulated Group IV (PAO).
And it goes both ways. A properly formulated Group IV (PAO) formulation COULD be better than an improperly formulated Group III oil.
That's the way I understand it from TomNJ. Quality base oils can influence the final finished product in some ways, but it's really the additives used that increase the performance quotient of a given motor oil.
Personally, I have nothing against Group III formulations, but since I can still get PAO formulations for pennies on the dollar more, I still prefer PAOs.
Thank God for free will and personal choice.
Originally Posted By: CompSyn
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Tangible proof, and easily verifiable with some searching.
Common, what's with the games? If you can help everyone with this ground breaking "proof", let's see it.
There's no games, I'm just surprised this isn't common knowledge around here by now. It's been covered so much now I didn't think anything more was required.
Originally Posted By: ExxonMobil
ESTERS
Organic esters used in synthetic lubricants are specifically designed to perform under operational extremes. They are the reaction products of a variety of alcohols and acids, which in turn lead to various ester types of predetermined molecular structure. Primarily oxygen-containing branched hydrocarbons that are thermally and oxidatively stable, these esters have high viscosity indices, and are free from undesirable and unstable impurities found in conventional petroleum-based oils. The esters are structurally differentiated from PAO due to the presence of multiple ester linkages (COOR) which impart polarity to the ester molecules. The polar nature of these esters drives many of their performance features, which include:
* Good thermal and oxidative stability that allows the ester to operate over a broad temperature range
* Low volatility and no volatile organic compounds, resulting in lower rates of evaporative loss
* Improved solvency, which leads to cleaner lubrication and/or improved additive solubility
* Lubricity that can enhance the performance of PAO or mineral oil- based lubricants
* Biodegradability features that allow formulation of products with environmental benefits.
Esters used in synthetic lubricants generally fall into five categories: Mono Esters, Dibasic Esters, Aromatic Esters (Phthalates and Trimellitates), Polyol Esters and Complex Polymeric Esters. ExxonMobil Chemical markets esters from each of the categories under the Esterex(TM) tradename, as shown in the product line chart.
It is generally recognized that polyol esters can enable a lubricant to achieve higher performance levels under extreme operating conditions. The differentiation chart shows how a unique Esterex polyol ester can offer performance advantages versus more conventional polyol ester.
The use of PAO and esters provides the formulator with a great deal of versatility in lubricant design. They can be used as the sole basestock for certain applications such as PAO in engine oils or esters in jet turbine lubes. They can also be used in combination with each other or with other less polar basestocks (e.g. mineral oils) to provide complementary performance. For example, esters are used with PAO to improve seal compatibility and provide additive solubility in a variety of automotive and industrial lubricant applications.
http://www.allbusiness.com/chemicals/petrochemicals-industry-petrochemicals/11436052-1.html
Esters are commonly added in small amounts to group III/IV oils to enhance additive solubility/solvency/seal swell/polarity.
Look at POEs used in refrigerants, there they are used because of their extreme solvency. Group III actually isn't particularly solvent, perhaps moreso than PAO (when used by itself, which is almost never done) given Shell's statements, but I think they are splitting hairs there. Group III and PAO are actually the least polar of all the usual base oils.
Now scroll down to page 17 here: http://www.synmaxperformancelubricants.c...resentation.pdf
TomNJ is the resident expert on esters, perhaps he will chime in.
Thank you. We're not in disagreement.
I've just been trying to clarify with you that a lubricant that is properly formulated whether it be from primarily Group III base stocks or from Group IV (PAO) base stocks can have equally as good or better characteristics over the other based on the Ester content or other additives used by the formulator.
So a properly formulated Group III formulation COULD be better than an improperly formulated Group IV (PAO).
And it goes both ways. A properly formulated Group IV (PAO) formulation COULD be better than an improperly formulated Group III oil.
That's the way I understand it from TomNJ. Quality base oils can influence the final finished product in some ways, but it's really the additives used that increase the performance quotient of a given motor oil.
Personally, I have nothing against Group III formulations, but since I can still get PAO formulations for pennies on the dollar more, I still prefer PAOs.
Thank God for free will and personal choice.
So...basically all of the hype over NOTHING HUH! Some of you were on the verge of beating up the service manager for this product lol! I stated awhile back that I BET this product will be no better than their PP product...and I was right. They are focused on keeping engines clean....heck many dino's will do this easily and especially ALL Grp III oils! ST syn will accomplish this. Highly dissapointed...
I wonder if people will bash this like they bashed Edge?
- Status
Similar threads
- Sticky
- Locked
- Locked