rationull, I just finished my third 10K OCI using OEM Honda Filtech filters with zero issues; don't sweat running yours to 12K.
New filter every other oil change?
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Suppose you accept the industry rhetoric that a filter improves with use in terms of filtration? Suppose you accepted that engines don't produce enough dirt, in terms of insolubles, to tax the holding capacity of the filter? Suppose, if you were like me, and tested a 10k old filter and found in not anywhere near saturated? You went out and purchased differential pressure gauges and used remote mounts to facilitate the testing ..all because you wanted to know how often a bypass valve opens??
Suppose all those things and you may understand
If a filter improves its' filtration qualities with use, then why ever change it at all?
John
John
I'm puzzled by the notion that following the manufacturer's recommended procedure is "skimping."
Change your filter every time if you desire - it's only a small waste of money, and if it makes you sleep better at night it might be worth it.
Our '06 Accord calls for every-other-oil-change filter changes, and I'm following that regime with confidence.
Change your filter every time if you desire - it's only a small waste of money, and if it makes you sleep better at night it might be worth it.
Our '06 Accord calls for every-other-oil-change filter changes, and I'm following that regime with confidence.
I might be brave and try an every other like my manual recommends, after this ARX run. I'll probably try it with my amsoil asl and eao filter, but that's tentative
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Because finer filtration and the hold capacity that it impacts are only two dimensions to filter use. Suppose you're using it on a timed OCI basis and you're not purging moisture from the oil in an effective manner? Filters aren't very durable under some operating conditions.
It's not a "well if going right is not quite right ..why not just go 180° in the other direction?". The compass has 360° in it, last I checked. Not everyone can do this without unseen issues in terms of filtration degradation...but then again, it's not recommended for everyone.
So again, change it every time if you want to ...regardless of your service profile. If, however, your service profile is conducive to longer drains, or is dictated by mileage according to the OEM recommendation, then you can swap it every other OCI.
How do you expect anyone to argue when you are so clear an logical? Spoil-sport!
I change my oil & filter every 3000-6000 miles (I adjust depending on how much highway vs stop & go driving I do). I'm running a Toyota Celica 1.8L 7AFE w/ 24x,xxx miles. I
average 80% + highway driving.
I've recently switched to Supertech 10W-30 high mileage (more detergents than standard oil?), and Supertech ST4967 oil filter. I'll probably use the larger ST3614 found on V6's (it fits). As near as I can tell, all it will do is give me more filter media... which I don't think will be a bad thing - may even help keep the oil pressure down during cold starts and be easier on my oil pump?
I like to change the filter every time because I suspect with an engine with that many miles I'm getting more blow by / gas in the oil and I want to flush ALL the oil (including what's in the filter).
average 80% + highway driving.
I've recently switched to Supertech 10W-30 high mileage (more detergents than standard oil?), and Supertech ST4967 oil filter. I'll probably use the larger ST3614 found on V6's (it fits). As near as I can tell, all it will do is give me more filter media... which I don't think will be a bad thing - may even help keep the oil pressure down during cold starts and be easier on my oil pump?
I like to change the filter every time because I suspect with an engine with that many miles I'm getting more blow by / gas in the oil and I want to flush ALL the oil (including what's in the filter).
Jeremiah, if you suspect you get more blow-by/gas in the oil, you could do a UOA to see. If you don't have problems, use the smaller filter, change it every OTHER time, and the smaller filter won't have as much old oil in it to be mixed with the new oil; you'll be fine.
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Suppose you accept the industry rhetoric that a filter improves with use in terms of filtration? Suppose you accepted that engines don't produce enough dirt, in terms of insolubles, to tax the holding capacity of the filter? Suppose, if you were like me, and tested a 10k old filter and found in not anywhere near saturated? You went out and purchased differential pressure gauges and used remote mounts to facilitate the testing ..all because you wanted to know how often a bypass valve opens??
Suppose all those things and you may understand
I would still change the oil filter every time, even supposing all those things (although I don't accept that an oil filters efficiency increases with age). Unless you take the used filter off and completely drain it, you are mixing used oil with new. And if you are going to go to all that trouble, just spend the extra $5-$10 and install a new one. It simply amazes me when people want to cut corners on maintaining what is generally their second largest asset.
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Suppose you accept the industry rhetoric that a filter improves with use in terms of filtration? Suppose you accepted that engines don't produce enough dirt, in terms of insolubles, to tax the holding capacity of the filter? Suppose, if you were like me, and tested a 10k old filter and found in not anywhere near saturated? You went out and purchased differential pressure gauges and used remote mounts to facilitate the testing ..all because you wanted to know how often a bypass valve opens??
Suppose all those things and you may understand
I would still change the oil filter every time, even supposing all those things (although I don't accept that an oil filters efficiency increases with age). Unless you take the used filter off and completely drain it, you are mixing used oil with new. And if you are going to go to all that trouble, just spend the extra $5-$10 and install a new one. It simply amazes me when people want to cut corners on maintaining what is generally their second largest asset.
How is it cutting corners? Please show me how you know that it is better to change the filter every time. I'd rather keep the 5 dollars and get a car wash or some gas.
You can save money too by wiping your arse every other time, bathing less often.......
Yep, money saved from the lower cost of maintenance goes right to something else. Thats the whole point of marketing long(overdue) maintenance intervals by automakers. Automakers have no problem taking your money by tossing on the options, financing the vehicle forever, producing bloated vehicles, producing disposable vehicles, and/or selling you a new one every 3-5 years
You're saving so much money ignoring simple cheap maintenance
Most oil filters are too cheap not to change at every oil change. If you're cheap, by all means follow your owners manual. You probably won't keep the vehicle long enough to worry about it. Marketing/advertising has your mind fully brainwashed.
IMO, an oil change is hack worth if a filter isn't changed. If you don't plan on keeping the car for a reasonable time, then why bother maintaining it at all
Here is something to think about. If an automaker gave you a lifetime warranty on every mechanical component, what do you think the maintenance intervals would be? what do you think the fluid quality would be? filtration quality?
Automakers are bragging about vehicle recyclability. That says a lot about their owners manual's recommended maintenance intervals!
Yep, money saved from the lower cost of maintenance goes right to something else. Thats the whole point of marketing long(overdue) maintenance intervals by automakers. Automakers have no problem taking your money by tossing on the options, financing the vehicle forever, producing bloated vehicles, producing disposable vehicles, and/or selling you a new one every 3-5 years
You're saving so much money ignoring simple cheap maintenance
Most oil filters are too cheap not to change at every oil change. If you're cheap, by all means follow your owners manual. You probably won't keep the vehicle long enough to worry about it. Marketing/advertising has your mind fully brainwashed.
IMO, an oil change is hack worth if a filter isn't changed. If you don't plan on keeping the car for a reasonable time, then why bother maintaining it at all
Here is something to think about. If an automaker gave you a lifetime warranty on every mechanical component, what do you think the maintenance intervals would be? what do you think the fluid quality would be? filtration quality?
Automakers are bragging about vehicle recyclability. That says a lot about their owners manual's recommended maintenance intervals!
So can you give an actual reason to change the filter every time or will you simply play the cheap maintenance card? There are alot of people in this thread who seem to know a secret but are unwilling to share it with the rest of us. If there is absolutely no reason to buy a new filter then why buy it? We have enough evidence built up here to support the filter at least every other oci strategy.
A filter collects wear and blowby carbon particles. Unless you can quote the capacity of your filter, and wear/soot production of your engine, why the #@$%! wouldn't you change it?
An old filter is also filled with dirty oil. How good is an oil change if you purposely leave a pint of old oil in the engine?
Because of drainplug location, oil passages, and other oil collection areas, we leave plenty of old oil in the engine every time anyway. I prefer to remove as much as possible.
Where is the data/evidence to support alternating OCI filter changes?
I haven't seen any info saying that replacing the oil filter every other change is good. Show me the particle counts.
Assuming 7.5k OCIs and 15k filter changes, if you have the 15k filter UOA with particles counts that are better then the UOA/PC with same filter at 7.5k, then please post the data!
If you don't have the PC/UOA data for your filter and engine, then change it at every oil change.
Will there be exceptions? Sure, if you change your oil every 1k-3k miles, or if you paid $10-$20 for some boutique fancy oil filter, or if you use a bypass filter, you probably don't need to change the filter every time. But, the majority market share are cheap cellulose media filters.
An old filter is also filled with dirty oil. How good is an oil change if you purposely leave a pint of old oil in the engine?
Because of drainplug location, oil passages, and other oil collection areas, we leave plenty of old oil in the engine every time anyway. I prefer to remove as much as possible.
Where is the data/evidence to support alternating OCI filter changes?
I haven't seen any info saying that replacing the oil filter every other change is good. Show me the particle counts.
Assuming 7.5k OCIs and 15k filter changes, if you have the 15k filter UOA with particles counts that are better then the UOA/PC with same filter at 7.5k, then please post the data!
If you don't have the PC/UOA data for your filter and engine, then change it at every oil change.
Will there be exceptions? Sure, if you change your oil every 1k-3k miles, or if you paid $10-$20 for some boutique fancy oil filter, or if you use a bypass filter, you probably don't need to change the filter every time. But, the majority market share are cheap cellulose media filters.
Dummy, I wish I could find you some particle counts but there have been hardly any posted. I was going by solids and there are many people running 15K on a filter with great results. You could probably not use a filter at all and never notice a difference. If you really want to change it every time then go ahead. The only difference between you and I is that I will have 5 dollars extra.
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I don't have PC or UOA ..but my test of a 10k used PureOne told me that loading isn't an issue in those instances where mileage is used for the criteria of the OCI. Now that doesn't mean the 3k type person where 3k IS the OCI he/she should be doing. If you're doing 7.5k in 6 months, you're doing very few heating/fuel enrichment cycles per mile.
Whether or not I had PC or UOA, that PureOne filter didn't evidence saturation due to loading. As good or as bad as it was, it was not showing the effects.
There's no doubt in my mind that it would have made 15k easy. I only saw the PSID that I did due to the heavy oil that I used in subfreezing temps. If I had been running a synth of a 30 weight designation, I doubt that I would have seen much at startup (as it was I saw only 10 PSID for a short amount of time - this is below the PureOne's threshold) and lower than the 2PSID I saw afterwards heading toward full warmup.
Very few that I have observed here have taken any OCI to its limits without the presence of some fuel issue or whatever. Even these instances aren't much more than a blip on the radar in terms of life shortening wear marker elevation. I just don't see residuals being all that much of an issue. We have lots of engines that cache sizable amounts of oil due to coolers and whatnot. They don't seem to suffer from that too much. I don't think a 1/2 pint to a pint is going to make all that much difference in a 4-6 quart sump.
Most filters suffer from other insults besides loading. They suffer from moisture contamination that fouls the media and degrades it. If you're doing 15k a year ..I can't see how that could be the case. Maybe a 3.1 family engine with coolant contamination issues ..but that's a whole problem in itself that won't be solved with changing your fitler 5X as often.
..but ..do it ..don't do it ...the choice is yours
Whether or not I had PC or UOA, that PureOne filter didn't evidence saturation due to loading. As good or as bad as it was, it was not showing the effects.
There's no doubt in my mind that it would have made 15k easy. I only saw the PSID that I did due to the heavy oil that I used in subfreezing temps. If I had been running a synth of a 30 weight designation, I doubt that I would have seen much at startup (as it was I saw only 10 PSID for a short amount of time - this is below the PureOne's threshold) and lower than the 2PSID I saw afterwards heading toward full warmup.
Very few that I have observed here have taken any OCI to its limits without the presence of some fuel issue or whatever. Even these instances aren't much more than a blip on the radar in terms of life shortening wear marker elevation. I just don't see residuals being all that much of an issue. We have lots of engines that cache sizable amounts of oil due to coolers and whatnot. They don't seem to suffer from that too much. I don't think a 1/2 pint to a pint is going to make all that much difference in a 4-6 quart sump.
Most filters suffer from other insults besides loading. They suffer from moisture contamination that fouls the media and degrades it. If you're doing 15k a year ..I can't see how that could be the case. Maybe a 3.1 family engine with coolant contamination issues ..but that's a whole problem in itself that won't be solved with changing your fitler 5X as often.
..but ..do it ..don't do it ...the choice is yours
And it simply amazes me that following the manufacturer's recommended maintenance schedule is considered "cutting corners." If I listen to some on these boards, OEM parts are the gold standard but the OEM-recommended maintenance schedule is programmed neglect - a curious attitude, IMO.
As I said before, I am doing the every-other-change filter change on our Accord, as the manual directs. unDummy can wonder aloud why I bother changing my oil at all then if he wants, but I have every confidence that I'm maintaining the car just fine, thanks.
I'm the one following the manufacturer's recommended schedule, so absent any reason not to I'll retain my confidence. And I haven't seen any, besides "It doesn't seem right," sentiments and ridiculous arguments about mixing used and new oil. Come on - even if you do switch the filter there's still a good bit of old oil remaining; I really think this is worrying about nothing.
Change your own filters as often as you want. But I take great exception to being accused of abusing or neglecting my car because I follow the stinkin' factory schedule.
I took a vacation from BITOG and am catching up on some old threads.
One reason for not changing a filter every time, if it is not necessary, is that on some cars the filter is very hard to get to. Take for example, the 1990-1996 Infiniti Q45. The filter is on the front of the engine, under the air filter box and under the charcoal canister. There is no way to get to it from the top without removing the air filter box lid, and the charcoal canister, which, once removed, is not real easy to get back on.
The filter is better accessed from the bottom, but then to really get to it easier requires a lift.
So, I bring the car to the dealer for a change of oil and filter every other time, and in between, I just change the oil without changing the filter.
I must be doing something right. I have 250K miles on this car with no oil consumption and it is just as powerful (to me) as when new.
One reason for not changing a filter every time, if it is not necessary, is that on some cars the filter is very hard to get to. Take for example, the 1990-1996 Infiniti Q45. The filter is on the front of the engine, under the air filter box and under the charcoal canister. There is no way to get to it from the top without removing the air filter box lid, and the charcoal canister, which, once removed, is not real easy to get back on.
The filter is better accessed from the bottom, but then to really get to it easier requires a lift.
So, I bring the car to the dealer for a change of oil and filter every other time, and in between, I just change the oil without changing the filter.
I must be doing something right. I have 250K miles on this car with no oil consumption and it is just as powerful (to me) as when new.
Infiniti Q45's are amazing cars. Their transmissions are like a rock, too
Glad to have some evidence that changing the filter every other change isn't going to kill your car, too. My manual recommends every other change, and i'm thinking of doing that when my stash gets smaller.
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I would much rather have a Pure One changed every 15,000 mi than a Premium Plus changed every 7,500 mi. Just my opinion...
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