New Castrol GTX label?

[Oziyak]

Hi...

I own a dodge intrepid with the 2.7L engine in it... and it's very prone to sludge.

I was in the Canadian Tire today and saw a new label on Castrol GTX conventional oil saying that it won't sludge up. Can anyone comment on this.

I've been using synthetic to stop sludge from occuring... but the castrol is sooo much cheaper... especially cause my engine burns oil!

did they change the oil... or add something to it?

thanks for any info

Mark

 

[TR3-2001SE]

Maybe some of the experts will chime in but I believe it is just advertizing. While Castrol makes good oil if I where you I stick with the synthetic oil. Synthetic will sludge but it takes a real problem engine and a long change interval to do it.

 

[Quest]

Before you call yoru engine "very prone to sludge", have you replaced your PCV valve yet?

 

[55Test]

Use a 15w40 diesel engine oil for the summer months.

 

[55Test]

Use a 15w40 diesel engine oil for the summer months.

 

[va3ux]

I too have the 2.7L, so I'm always looking at this stuff.

If you look carefully at the label it says something more like "resists sludging" or "provides maximum protection against sludging". But it does not say that your motor "won't sludge up".

Note that the product data sheets for most of the oils on the market use similar wording. However it does seem like Castrol is certainly going out of their way to promote the anti-sludging properties of GTX so they may well have something better than the competition. There was a Castrol guy on BITOG a while ago and he did say that Castrol had indeed recently changed the additive package in GTX, hence the new labelling. But it is difficult to know whether it's just marketing fluff with no real substance behind it, or a real significant change.

I've run a lot of GTX through my 2.7. It currently has 243,000 Km (151K miles). Standard oil change interval for any conventional oil on this engine is 5000 km (3000 miles)- max. Anyone that says otherwise does not know this engine. Do not follow any advice for 4000 or 5000 mile OCI on conventional oil for the 2.7. Even grpIII synthetic oil is pretty much shot after just 4000 miles (6500 km) in the 2.7.

quote:

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Before you call yoru engine "very prone to sludge", have you replaced your PCV valve yet?

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Quest - this engine is prone to sludging even with a good working PCV system. The skin temps on the heads are higher than normal by design, and the presence of 3 timing chains adds significant shear and oxidation loading to the oil. The thermostat is on the inlet to the water pump, rather than at the exit from the block. Typical coolant temps leaving the block are 220 to 230 F, whereas they are typically around 195F or less in most other engines.

Phil

 

[mechtech]

It sounds like va3ux knows what he's talking about!
If I had that engine, I'd carefully consider his advice.

 

[dodge1]

I have a question I have a dodge ram 3.7 v6 and is this engine prone to sludge as the 2.7 you are talking about? thanks

 

[Quest]

LOL va3ux!

I guess we have our fair share of poor designs.

For those engines, I would just keep the OCI level down or switch to full synthetics....

Q.

p.s. no wonder our local black cab no longer runs those Chrysler Intrepid taxi cabs on the road (mostly VW TDI, corollas and Prius)...maybe all sludged up badly?

 

[arkainzeye]

i own this engine also. i have been doing 7500 oci using Mobil 1. recently i started using Mobil 1 Extended Performance and im going to do 10,000 Oci. the car currectly has 90,000+ miles on it. no issues.

chris

 

[Oziyak]

Wow guys... thanks for the great posts... especially you va3ux!... great post!

I think I"m definatly going to give the gtx a try... cause in all honestly.. the Mobil 1 is just too expensive to be burning off (poor valve stem seal problem).

I do change my oil every 5000km, but usually dont' care how long it takes to get there. I think it only took me 3 months this time... but sometimes a little longer.

is there any type of coolant that will work better at taking care of this excessive heat our engines put out? Should I look into something that will keep it cooler?

thanks again for the great response guys...

Mark

 

[pscholte]

Just some food for thought...as any of you know who visit the Elvish village on this forum, I am a unabashed fan of GC...however, my loyalty does not necessarily run to all Castrol products, so I would give you this perspective. Advertising CAN be related to a really great product or product attribute that a seller is trying to let the world know about. It CAN ALSO be an attempt to recover from a bad reputation or to convince buyers that a problem does not exist, i.e., maybe Castrol has developed a rep (justified or not) for sludging and so they go on the defensive or engage in damage control. Or maybe they are letting people know we really do have a legitimate sludging problem fixed. All I am saying is you never REALLY know what the truth is except through experience (potentially hazardous to your engine's health) or independent testing whether this is a legitimate claim or not.

 

[Oziyak]

point taken... now one last question from me I guess... some people have said that you should switch back to conventional oil after sythetic..

should I be worried about this... or just go ahead and switch back..

also... is it alright for me to top up my engine oil with synthetic... and make my own type of syth blend?

what about mixing grades? 10w30, 5w30... I think I even have some 5w50 syntec lying around...

any problem with that?

thanks everyone

 

[dave1251]

Yes you will be fine making your own blend. Dont worry about mixing a little 5W-50 with your 5w-10w-30. You will just thicken it tad. You will be fine. Tallpaul you listing on this?

 

[Ray H]

Before the mere mention of any hint, let alone suggestion, that Castrol may've had past sludging issues that could rapidly spin out of control as yet another rampaging BITOG urban myth, I'm gonna stress I've never come across any verified claim that Castrol's conventional oils were any more subject to sludging than any other formulator's. In fact Castrol was first out of the chute with their claims that GTX was less susceptible to thermal breakdown before other companies got on that bandwagon. I suspect the current labeling change merely reflects enough of an additive improvement change to forestall sludging that BP felt justified in soft-pedaling it to the public as evidence of the company's continuing commitment to product improvement. If you're a Castrol GTX user, enjoy being so notified, but don't obsess. It'll be interesting to compare used oil analysis of the "new" brew as they're posted against those of already archived SM Castrol GTX.

 

[va3ux]

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dodge1
Member # 10224 - posted July 04, 2006 08:47 AM I have a question I have a dodge ram 3.7 v6 and is this engine prone to sludge as the 2.7 you are talking about? thanks

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Dodge1 - I'm sorry but I don't know much about the 3.7L. I haven't heard of any sludge issues yet. Chrysler might have learned their lesson with the 2.7. They started gradually correcting the problems with this engine in 2000 or 2001, with significant additional changes in 2003 or 2004 (apparently).

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Quest
Member # 5730 - posted July 04, 2006 10:10 AM LOL va3ux!

I guess we have our fair share of poor designs.

For those engines, I would just keep the OCI level down or switch to full synthetics....

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Absolutely right Quest. This engine is an exception to much of the standard advice floating around here.

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arkainzeye
Member # 1653 - posted July 04, 2006 10:31 AM i own this engine also. i have been doing 7500 oci using Mobil 1. recently i started using Mobil 1 Extended Performance and im going to do 10,000 Oci. the car currectly has 90,000+ miles on it. no issues.

chris

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Chris - if you've been doing this from the start then you're on the right track and your engine should be in good shape. However I would still advise a used oil analysis even with the EP at 10K miles. This engine is really hard on oil and you may or may not get the same results that others have using Mobil 1 Extended Performance w/10K mi OCI. Try to get oxidation and nitration done with the analysis and then submit to Mr. Dyson for evaluation.

For all Chrysler 2.7L owners, be aware that even though you might have a clean engine, you can still have catastrophic failure from a failure of the main timing chain - which is quite common. Chrysler "suggests" replacing at around 100k miles; a Chrysler Master Tech has told me that the average life of the Main chain is 150K miles in a well looked after engine; typically a lot less than this is an average engine. This is an interference engine. Bent valves aren't the only casualty in these cases : the tops of the pistons are only 3mm thick. If the chain fails at highway speeds, the valves usually punch right through the the tops of some the pistons, thereby trashing the entire engine. When replacing the main chain, also replace the main hydraulic tensioner, *at a minimum*. For max reliability, replace all 3 chains AND all 3 tensioners. And while you're at it, replace the water pump because it's inside the engine (driven by the main timing chain). If the water pump fails and seizes, you're engine will be trashed - even if you've run Mobil 1 Extended Performance for it's entire life and just changed all the chains and tensioners yesterday.

The Chrysler 3.2L and 3.5L engines do not have the timing chain and water pump issues/concerns that the 2.7 does. But they are belt-driven DOHC interference engines that still need periodic attention.

There's a lot to be said for the good 'ol reliable pushrod engines.

That's all for now folks.

Phil
2001 Chrysler (Dodge) Intrepid w/243K km (151K miles) - timing chains about to be replaced

 

[va3ux]

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Oziyak
Member # 12422 - posted July 04, 2006 12:30 PM

is there any type of coolant that will work better at taking care of this excessive heat our engines put out? Should I look into something that will keep it cooler?
Mark

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Mark - I forgot to address the last part of your question. The answer at the moment is "No" - there's nothing you can do about the operating temp of the engine. The PCM and ECU are designed and programmed for the high, existing temps. Part of the reason for the excellent gas mileage with this engine is the high thermal efficiency - which means keeping as much heat inside the engine as possible. Any attempt to lower the operating temp will result in horrible gas mileage and probably a constant flood of engine trouble codes.

As far as coolant : use only Mopar Long Life coolant or Zerex G-05. These are the same product; the only difference is the color. The Mopar stuff is orange; the Zerex stuff is yellow; but they have the same chemistry. DO NOT use GM or Havoline DEXCOOL, which is also orange. DO NOT use any green coolants.

The cooling system and the material of the water pump impeller, and the water pump seals, was actually designed around the coolant. Using anything than Mopar LL coolant or Zerez G-05 is asking for trouble with the water pump. And you don't want that because the water pump is inside the engine. If the secondary pump seal leaks, it leaks right into the crankcase. You want to see sludge and a destroyed engine ? Wait 'til you leak 0.5 - 1.0 liters of coolant into an engine that is like a blender with it's 3 timing chains.

PCV - change it every 6 months ! It's only a couple of bucks. And it really matters on this engine. If your engine is pre-2001, it won't have the PCV heat exchanger installed. Get this done if it doesn't have it.

Phil