New Amsoil OE 15W-40

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3


Ah - there you have it. Although I didn't contact them directly, I'll take jmimac351 at his word. Apparently Amsoil is indicating that the OE products (in HDEO) are decontended, for a lack of a more acceptable term.

So, let's review. I suspected that the OE product was "decontended"; seems I was right.


NO you are NOT right. Different does not mean "decontented" - please stop using such an ignorant term. It's not even a real word and it makes no sense in this discussion. This is why people see that you are throwing your bias around.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/decontented

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Decontent

Amsoil is using different base oils and a different additive package. You may not like Amsoil's price point, but there it is. You've said your piece in full glory in the first post and you keep going on and on.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: dnewton3


Ah - there you have it. Although I didn't contact them directly, I'll take jmimac351 at his word. Apparently Amsoil is indicating that the OE products (in HDEO) are decontended, for a lack of a more acceptable term.

So, let's review. I suspected that the OE product was "decontended"; seems I was right.


NO you are NOT right. Different does not mean "decontented" - please stop using such an ignorant term. It's not even a real word and it makes no sense in this discussion. This is why people see that you are throwing your bias around.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/decontented

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Decontent

Amsoil is using different base oils and a different additive package. You may not like Amsoil's price point, but there it is. You've said your piece in full glory in the first post and you keep going on and on.


Pablo:

Third-party perspective here: You need to take a breather.

I didn't see dnewton's post as a knock at the product, or AMSOIL at all! He's simply saying that the OE product is a "dumbed down" (he's using the term "decontended") product compared to their higher end, extended drain offerings. Given that it is recommended for a shorter OCI, and uses a Group III base instead of AMSOIL's usual PAO base that they use for their higher end offerings, this would be correct would it not? that it is not as "robust" (and hence, not recommended for the same length of OCI) as their premium products?

And it is offered at a lower price point because of this!

To me, that's all he seems to be pointing out?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


Pablo:

Third-party perspective here: You need to take a breather.

I didn't see dnewton's post as a knock at the product, or AMSOIL at all! He's simply saying that the OE product is a "dumbed down" (he's using the term "decontended") product compared to their higher end, extended drain offerings. Given that it is recommended for a shorter OCI, and uses a Group III base instead of AMSOIL's usual PAO base that they use for their higher end offerings, this would be correct would it not? that it is not as "robust" (and hence, not recommended for the same length of OCI) as their premium products?

And it is offered at a lower price point because of this!

To me, that's all he seems to be pointing out?


Funny that I'm the one who needs the breather.

I think dnewton3 typed something like this "there is little or no need for this product at all" among gems like "For a lack of better terms, this oil is a "decontented" version so that people who want to use Amsoil brand (either for bragging rights or some other emotional response..." and "then there would be no Amsoil aura to enjoy ..." in some pretty long posts.

I think it's pretty clear to all of the folks who have been here more than a few months what Amsoil OE oils are all about. We are certainly all allowed our opinions, but we are also allowed to logically discuss the opinions. dnewton3 can fully express his opinions. I have no problem with that, I never have actually. But I can challenge him on his words and his word choice.

You'll notice I am making no claims for this oil. It has no track record in the market. I am actually not judging the oil either way. dnewton3 seems to want to fire up the "rumor mill now"

I'll just leave it at this. dnewton3 always has interesting words about Amsoil, it's entertaining!

I'm taking a breather now!!

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: dnewton3


Apparently Amsoil is indicating that the OE products (in HDEO) are decontended, for a lack of a more acceptable term.

So, let's review. I suspected that the OE product was "decontended"; seems I was right.


NO you are NOT right. Different does not mean "decontented" - please stop using such an ignorant term. It's not even a real word and it makes no sense in this discussion. This is why people see that you are throwing your bias around.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/decontented

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Decontent

Amsoil is using different base oils and a different additive package. You may not like Amsoil's price point, but there it is. You've said your piece in full glory in the first post and you keep going on and on.


Paul,

You're picking on the words I use, and yet completely agreeing with my assessment.

I used the words "for a lack of a better term". "Decontented" is not a word; I know that. But it implies a concept that clearly fits this situation. "Decontented" was to imply "differnt" and "reduced" together. Sorry if it did not imply the intended concept. But I think most folks here understood what I meant.


Here's what I said in my first post:
"Why is it so much cheaper? Some thoughts here:
1) it's not group IV, but perhaps III?
2) reduced add-pack to make the minimum OEM OCI, and not more
3) some combination of #1 and #2"

Here's what you just stated:
Amsoil is using different base oils and a different additive package.

And yet you state this: "NO you are NOT right."
How is that not the EXACT same concept? You are in agreement with me, even if you don't want to admit it. Does that not make me right? (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/right)

You don't like the words I use or make up? Fine.
I'll restate it again, differently. Amsoil is using a reduced add-pack and modified base stock to meet a marketing target, all while charging a higher pecentage of money for a lower pecentage of capability, as being defined as less OCI potential.

So the FACTS support exactly what I've been saying about it. You are picking on the delivery terms and the person, rather than admitting the context and content were spot on.

As for the price point, it really doesn't matter if I like it. I'm sure there are some people that will, and they'll buy it. That's called "marketing" (a word I just checked to make sure is in the dictionary - it fits).

BTW - If using a "different" add-pack and base stock are acceptable concepts for normal OCIs, then how does using conventional oils not make sense here? For "normal" OCIs (being defined by OEM intervals), there is clear UOA evidence that quality conventional oils perform just as well in wear protection and vis retention, etc as do synthetics.

"But I can challenge him on his words and his word choice." Yes, you can. And that's OK; I'm used to it. When I'm on the stand, it's common to have the defense atty attack the officer rather than stick to the facts; it's a diversionary tactic. Keeps the focus off the topic.

The FACTS are that the product has a reduced add pack, a differnt base stock, costs 1/3 less money but exhibits 2/3 less OCI potential. That makes me "right" (as being defined as correct).

 

[Pablo]

You still aren't quite getting it.

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
reduced add-pack


No not "reduced". I will simply not let these words slip by.

Reduced could equal different, only because "different" can be a more vague term, but in this case it's not a matter of less additives, it's a matter of cost reduction via different set of additives and a different mix of base oils. It's really that simple.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
You still aren't quite getting it.

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
reduced add-pack


No not "reduced". I will simply not let these words slip by.

Reduced could equal different, only because "different" can be a more vague term, but in this case it's not a matter of less additives, it's a matter of cost reduction via different set of additives and a different mix of base oils. It's really that simple.


Oh - I think I get it alright. You choose to not admit that I was correct in concpet, and want to play word games with my grammer.

So "differnt" is not reduced in this case? Is that your contention? Inputs vs outputs; I'll accept that the oil is "differnt" if you'll accept that it's not as capable. "Capable" meaning it cannot offer as great an OCI. Therefore, people can pay 1/3 less money for 2/3 less OCI potential.

Still cannot lock onto the topic, and have to dance around with the words games ...

Regardless - have a great Memorial Day.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Oh - I think I get it alright. You choose to not admit that I was correct in concpet, and want to play word games with my grammer.

Regardless - have a great Memorial Day.


I'm not playing word games here. With CJ-4 as a limit on SAP, (ash really) - please tell us what is "reduced" in OED? Why would lower cost oils push the limit of the additive package and Amsoil just simply just meet the content requirements by reducing additives vs. their other CJ-4 oils?

Quote:
SERVICE LIFE
AMSOIL OE 15W-40 Synthetic Diesel Oil is recommended for the intervals stated by the original equipment manufacturer (OEM). Refer to the owner’s manual for specific oil change interval recommendations. AMSOIL recommends the oil filter be replaced at each oil change as recommended by the OEM. When using an AMSOIL By-Pass Filtration System, refer to the By-Pass Oil Filter data bulletin (G498) for more information.


I was never challenging the fact that this isn't a long drain oil any more than any other CJ-4 oil isn't a long drain oil. I mean what do other CJ-4 oil companies say about drain intervals. Extend with a maintenance program that includes UOA's.

Have a great day off!! Good Memorial Day and thoughts to all who served.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Mike_dup1
Question:
Why did AMSOIL develop AMSOIL OE 15W-40 Synthetic Diesel Oil?
Answer:
Many vehicle owners are interested in the significant benefits of AMSOIL synthetic lubricant technology but want to maintain their vehicles by changing their oil at manufacturer recommendations. AMSOIL recognized a need for these vehicle and equipment owners to have a full synthetic AMSOIL product meeting their unique performance and pricing requirements.
In addition, due to persistent fuel dilution issues in 2007 and newer light duty turbo diesels and certain Caterpillar heavy duty engines, AMSOIL Premium 5W-40 Synthetic Diesel Oil (DEO) and Premium 15W-40 Synthetic Diesel Oil (DME) cannot be used for extended oil drain intervals for these popular vehicles. AMSOIL OE 15W-40 Synthetic Diesel Oil (OED) is a cost effective alternative for these owners/operators who desire the benefits of AMSOIL synthetic oil but are not able to extend oil drain intervals because of persistent engine oil fuel dilution issues.


Diesel fleets and installers have been asking for an oil like this.


This should have been the last post in this thread. It explains AMSOil's rationale for designing the OE oil. Once they decided to design an oil for manufacturer-recommended OCI's, the need for long-duration adpaks went away. Furthermore, since they are designing to a price point, I wouldn't be surprised if more G3 base stock is in there to make the oil cost-effective for the customer on the short OCI.

Pablo and dnewton3 are just giving me a headache arguing semantics, but most of the time, I like reading their stuff.

 

[Pablo]

I agree. Well said.

I have a headache as well. Sorry - you are correct. This thread should have just ended much earlier.

 

[-SyN-]

Price is about the same as T6 per gallon... Just might have to switch to this for 1yr OCI with the Donaldson ELF7405 oil filter...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


Pablo:

Third-party perspective here: You need to take a breather.

I didn't see dnewton's post as a knock at the product, or AMSOIL at all! He's simply saying that the OE product is a "dumbed down" (he's using the term "decontended") product compared to their higher end, extended drain offerings. Given that it is recommended for a shorter OCI, and uses a Group III base instead of AMSOIL's usual PAO base that they use for their higher end offerings, this would be correct would it not? that it is not as "robust" (and hence, not recommended for the same length of OCI) as their premium products?

And it is offered at a lower price point because of this!

To me, that's all he seems to be pointing out?


Funny that I'm the one who needs the breather.

I think dnewton3 typed something like this "there is little or no need for this product at all" among gems like "For a lack of better terms, this oil is a "decontented" version so that people who want to use Amsoil brand (either for bragging rights or some other emotional response..." and "then there would be no Amsoil aura to enjoy ..." in some pretty long posts.

I think it's pretty clear to all of the folks who have been here more than a few months what Amsoil OE oils are all about. We are certainly all allowed our opinions, but we are also allowed to logically discuss the opinions. dnewton3 can fully express his opinions. I have no problem with that, I never have actually. But I can challenge him on his words and his word choice.

You'll notice I am making no claims for this oil. It has no track record in the market. I am actually not judging the oil either way. dnewton3 seems to want to fire up the "rumor mill now"

I'll just leave it at this. dnewton3 always has interesting words about Amsoil, it's entertaining!

I'm taking a breather now!!

Good

You just sounded a bit fired up in your previous posts. The above sounds a lot more relaxed.

 

[jmimac351]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3

BTW - If using a "different" add-pack and base stock are acceptable concepts for normal OCIs, then how does using conventional oils not make sense here? For "normal" OCIs (being defined by OEM intervals), there is clear UOA evidence that quality conventional oils perform just as well in wear protection and vis retention, etc as do synthetics.


And maybe I'm zeroing in on the answer to my question...

"What I'll have to decide on is, is it better to spend $20/gal on this stuff or $10-$12/gal on Delvac, Rotella, etc. At almost twice the price, and shorter drain interval than the other synthetic, I'm not so sure."

 

[-SyN-]

jm: you have figured it out!! That is the same choice all of us have to make...

I figure if you spend the extra money on a high end synthetic and expect to do extended drains? You best install a good quality Oil Filter by-pass System... To keep that expensive oil very clean...But those filters can't help keep those additives replenished...

Or Use regular HDEO-->Delvac-Delo-Rotella--->And change it between 5K-10K miles and feel good about your choice as you go to bed every night...

Your choice depends on the amount of money in your bank account or how anal you are about what goes into your truck or car...Or you realize maybe it really will never make that big of difference?

Maybe the main thing is just to keep it fresh and clean?

Each of us have to make our own decision...

I have accepted that the really only advantage to synthetics is cold weather pump ability...Which is critical in my mind... If you live in a very cold climate... Todays HDEO are awesome... You can't go wrong with any of them... Sad thing is our Trucks will probably outlive us...

Good Luck in your Quest!!

 

[dnewton3]

Let's see. Hmmmmmm ....

Buy dino, run a normal OEM OCI.
or
Buy the OE Amsoil, and run an normal OEM OCI.

Either way, you'll likely experience the same good detergent efforts, the same UOA results, and the same performance at all but the the most e-x-t-r-e-m-e temps (well past what 99% of us see). Remember, these are OEM OCIs were talking about.

But one of them costs 2x more money.

Really? It's a hard decision?

As much as I'm labeled an Amsoil hater, those of you who know me well know that I'd claim T6 and other such products to be a waste of money here as well. Those of you that follow my logic realize that I'm not down on Amsoil, I'm against waste at all levels, with all brands. ANY synthetic is overkill here, and there is no logical use for them in these conditions.

Read back through my posts here. I said this was good marketing for Amsoil, as they are now getting into a niche that other brands have already discovered. It's good for Amsoil; it's smart for them.

But, it's primarily a waste for the user. It satisfies a want, not a need. That is true of Amsoil, T6, TDT or any other syn used in "normal" circumstances.

A "benefit" that you cannot use nor capitalize upon is a waste. You might claim that syn's have more cold-pump abilities, but that's moot for darn near all of us. You might claim that the add pack is "better" in the syn, but when even the dino is more than enough, anything past "enough" is a waste. You spend 1/3 less money for 2/3 less OCI? Spending a little less money for a whole lot less "benefit" is not smart.

 

[Pablo]

Is T6 $10 gallon?

 

[dnewton3]

No. Why?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
No. Why?


Quote:
But one of them costs 2x more money.

 

[-SyN-]

Mr Newton: I have respect for everyone within this great website and always will...And you sir have given me information over the yrs that have made me more knowledge able about the oil that I buy and use...

Have I wasted money on oil? Maybe? I really don't have time too worry about it much..
I'm sure I waste more money on electricity and water ea day, and over my life time I could probably save 100K dollars or more...If I had time to worry about it... And I dang well should because by the time my grand children are born and of age, there might not be enough to go around...

We all make choices and decisions each second of each day...Do I worry about what others think of my choices and decisions? ah No! If I had that much time on my hands I would feel pretty pathetic.

I just hate seeing people some what ridiculed for the choices they make on something as simple as the oil that they put in their auto... It's their Choice! It's their hard earned money going into their hard earned auto...Why worry about what they are doing? If they ask for an opinion? Give yours and leave it be...

This is not directed at anyone, I just think there are important things to worry about, besides how much **** payed for that qt or gallon of oil he is pouring in his auto...

 

[jmimac351]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
No. Why?


Quote:
But one of them costs 2x more money.


Pablo, I think dnewton was comparing a dino oil to the Amsoil OE product, cost and otherwise.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: jmimac351
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
No. Why?


Quote:
But one of them costs 2x more money.


Pablo, I think dnewton was comparing a dino oil to the Amsoil OE product, cost and otherwise.


Yup. Seemed pretty clear to me.
"Buy dino, run a normal OEM OCI.
or
Buy the OE Amsoil, and run an normal OEM OCI."