New Amsoil 5w-40 (DEO)

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Southern NJ
http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/deo.aspx
Quote:
Synthetic 5W-40 Premium Diesel Oil may be used in pre-2007 diesel engines, but for increased protection and performance for extended drain intervals, AMSOIL continues to recommend Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel& Marine Motor Oil (AME), Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Diesel Oil (HDD) or Synthetic 10W-30/SAE 30 Diesel Oil (ACD).
 

JHZR2

Staff member
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IMO, this will be a good PCMO for new model vehicles (and old ones), due to the fact that it is a viscosity that is quite good, without excessive zinc and similar adds... and likely some of the newfangled stuff that seems to give some other oils their magic. Granted, the price tag is a bit steep... JMH
 
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Ellicott City, MD
Since when was Amsoil worried about the API standards? Where's the proof that the present levels of metallics in oils harm the the EGR systems and exhaust particulate filters. I think this is speculation. I hope the other Amsoil 5W40 goes back to the older, more robust add packs. I don't use Amsoil because they are API approved, but because they are not, and are not because they are better.
 

buster

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I think as Amsoil has grown, they have been a bit more compliant with the API. Not certifying, but being a bit more mindful of it. I don't have an issue with that although I do get the sense that most lubrication engineers feel SM is a downgrade in wear performance. Redline still touts ZDP as the best anti-wear additive available.
 
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5,785
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Dixie
Bruce381 described API/CJ-4 to me as API/SL performance, but with better dispersancy and oxidation resistance. That makes sense for a HD diesel oil.... This oil will be fine for 5w-40, API/SM or ACEA A3/B4 applications, however I would not expect it to have quite the extended drain capability of the 12 TBN Amsoil formulations like AMO or AME, or even their 40wt, four stroke oils. At some point I'll run this oil for 10k miles in my 1.8L, 225 Hp Audi TT and see just how robust it actually is.
 
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Fairfield, PA
Quote:
Since when was Amsoil worried about the API standards? Where's the proof that the present levels of metallics in oils harm the the EGR systems and exhaust particulate filters. I think this is speculation. I hope the other Amsoil 5W40 goes back to the older, more robust add packs. I don't use Amsoil because they are API approved, but because they are not, and are not because they are better.
Everywhere. I have been to alot of state and federal level meeting's about diesel particulate filters and every manufacturer of these filters I have spoken with has said that their filters would NOT perform with older grade oils and the higher sulpher fuel. It's a fact, not a myth. If you would like proof I would suggest going to the MECA website and viewing their publications section. There are numerous other studies and test available online from the epa's website and all the major filter manufacturers that show that the new particulate filters plug up and are clogged if older grade oils and fuel is used.
 
Quote:
http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/deo.aspx
Quote:
Synthetic 5W-40 Premium Diesel Oil may be used in pre-2007 diesel engines, but for increased protection and performance for extended drain intervals, AMSOIL continues to recommend Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel& Marine Motor Oil (AME), Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Diesel Oil (HDD) or Synthetic 10W-30/SAE 30 Diesel Oil (ACD).

I TRULY think that Amsoil is telling the customer that this is the BEST they can do, with the limitations placed on the Formulation of this specification of oil! Amsoil would like to see the older diesel engines run on the GOODSTUFF AME ACD HDD. Only time will tell how the new class of Diesel oils will hold up.
 
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I'd expect Amsoil will reformulate their 15w-40/PCO synblend as an API licensed, CJ-4 product, once the market demand is there (3-4 years). TS
 

buster

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Quote:
I TRULY think that Amsoil is telling the customer that this is the BEST they can do, with the limitations placed on the Formulation of this specification of oil!
Correct. That is what they are saying. As I said in a previous thread, Amsoil has grown a lot over the years and I think they have warmed up to the API requirements for some of these reasons. It's now possible to have extended drain oils with little ZDDP. Then, you have to take into consideration that many have cars under warranty and are concerned about using the right oil. Only your true racing oils are using lots of ZDDP.
 
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272
Location
Ellicott City, MD
Quote:
Quote:
Since when was Amsoil worried about the API standards? Where's the proof that the present levels of metallics in oils harm the the EGR systems and exhaust particulate filters. I think this is speculation. I hope the other Amsoil 5W40 goes back to the older, more robust add packs. I don't use Amsoil because they are API approved, but because they are not, and are not because they are better.
Everywhere. I have been to alot of state and federal level meeting's about diesel particulate filters and every manufacturer of these filters I have spoken with has said that their filters would NOT perform with older grade oils and the higher sulpher fuel. It's a fact, not a myth. If you would like proof I would suggest going to the MECA website and viewing their publications section. There are numerous other studies and test available online from the epa's website and all the major filter manufacturers that show that the new particulate filters plug up and are clogged if older grade oils and fuel is used.
I still think this is bunk. An easy way for the manufacturer to get out of installing something REALLY effective in limiting black soot in diesel exhaust.
 
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N/A
Quote:
IMO, this will be a good PCMO for new model vehicles (and old ones), due to the fact that it is a viscosity that is quite good, without excessive zinc and similar adds... and likely some of the newfangled stuff that seems to give some other oils their magic.
So, I was looking at the viscosity specs for this oil and comparing it to the specs for Amsoils 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel and Marine oil. I'm trying to figure out what makes this oil a 5W oil?
Quote:
AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-40 Premium Diesel Oil (HDD) Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 15.3 Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 92.6 AMSOIL Synthetic SAE 15W-40 Heavy-Duty Diesel (AME) Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 14.4 Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 89.7
The 15W-40 is thinner at both 100 and 40 degrees C. Am I missing something here? -Bryan
 
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47,776
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Everson WA - Pacific NW USA
Mr. Walton from Wilton, Quick answer: because the "W" rating is not determined by the 40°C Kinematic Viscosity of the oil. I've got to dash right now, so I can't look all the numbers up.
 
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5,785
Location
Dixie
The CCS viscosity of the Amsoil 5w-40/DEO is approx 5800 Cp @ -30C/-22F, so it falls in the 5w-xx range according to the SAE J300 specification. The 15w-40/AME is approx 4000 Cp @ -20C/-4F, so it's an SAE 15w-xx (Note: it would probably qualify as a 10wt, but 15w-40 is still the standard for HD diesels) In technical terms, the viscosity/temp relationship of all multigrade engine oils is "non-linear", ie they're a series of curves and not straight lines. TS
 
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47,776
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Everson WA - Pacific NW USA
Dang - TS beat me too it! That guy I tell you.... I wanted to post: Actually the 40°C vis speaks well of both oils. The DEO is a well shouldered base oil. The AME is just the king sleeper of of old tech 15W-40 HDEO's. The more I learn about DEO the more I like it. I am surely tempted to dump the ACD in the Volvo and throw the DEO in there!!! (Insert what TS wrote about the low temp props of both) And add that the cutoffs are (per J300): 6600 cP @ -30°C for a 5W rating 7000 cP @ -20°C for a 15W rating
 

buster

Thread starter
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34,159
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Southern NJ
Do you guys know of any chemistry/PDS update for 0w-30 TSO? The PDS is from 2/05. It still looks like the same oil through UOA's and nothing like the ASL/ATM which now use significant borate esters.
 
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1,412
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Falls Church VA
Jeez, guys. The PDS is a year and half old. Just maybe the formulations really haven't changed in that time. Maybe they made a really good oil that didn't have to be tweaked yet. As the Lubrizol rep said a few years back, after laying out the changes in formulations required by the next diesel update---"You guys have been selling oils which surpassed these requirements for several years now."
 
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2,918
Location
Georgia/Retired
Which product was Amsoil selling several years ago that qualified as a low SAPS product? I certainly haven't seen reduced additive technology from Amsoil in years passed. In fact, it's been quite the opposite.
 
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5,785
Location
Dixie
Buster, The additive chemistry you see in the UOA of the 2003 Vibe that was recently posted, IS the API/SM version of the Series 2000, 0w-30. You'll note how closely they hit their 800 ppm phosphorus target, ie the chemical limit for P as spelled out by the API. The add pack looks very much like what was used in their original European 5w-40 Formulation. I don't think that's by accident.... Fowvay is correct...these versions of the Amsoil 0w-30/5w-30/10w-30 are their first gas engine oils I can remmember formulated with much lower levels of ZDDP. Of course the older SL and SJ specs did allow 1000/1200 ppm respectively of phosphorus. The first version of the 5w-40 was basically a HD diesel oil chemistry and probably had SA in the 1.5% range like AME or HDD. I called tech services yesterday and asked about updated spec sheets on the two Series 2000 oils. I understand they are in the pipeline. There are no big changes for the S2000 except that the viscometrics of the basestock blend have changed very slightly: Vis @ 100C, 10.5 Cst Vis @ 40C, 54 Cst VI 187 HT/HS of 3.3 Cp API/SM, ACEA A5/B5 and VW 503.00 (their 30,000km/2 yr, Longlife spec) Ratio of kinematic viscosity to HT/HS viscosity: 10.5/3.3 = 3.18 (that's extremely good in terms of shear stability) I'm running the latest version of the S2000 in my 2002 Audi TT (combined w/ an EAO-34 oil filter). It looks cleaner than I can remember after about 2500 miles with essentially no oil consumption. TS
 
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