Neighbor got car jacked.

[c502cid]

The US is a pretty safe place by and large so defensive gun uses are pretty low. Statistically most people carrying will never have to pull their weapon and even less will have to actually use it if pulled. So no I don’t believe good guys are just blasting folks left and right. And I do believe very much in the right to carry.

However I do think the gun community does bad job focusing on anything but the gun. Soft skill and hand to hand capabilities are completely ignored by most when it comes to training. Most people only focus on the gun and ignore any skill except getting better with the gun.

The gun is the last line of defense. There should be a lot of focus on it. I've taken 5 defensive firearm courses in my life. The biggest focus, and first topic is always situational awareness. Then followed by the best course of action, removing yourself from the situation. But make no mistake, the focus on the firearm carries a lot of weight, because when it comes to the first two subjects failing you, you better know how to protect yourself and your family with what you have in your hand.

 

[edyvw]

Sir, with all due respect, someone aiming a deadly weapon in anyone's direction is more than "perceived", thereby justifying the use of deadly force to defend the lives of yourself and/or family. Thanks for your input.

The problem is that the average individual won't ever face that scenario. But it will use a weapon because road rage, minor altercations etc.
Also, I know law enforcement officers always argue when carjacking is in question to escalate things. Everyone is living life like they are going to O.K. Corral, not Costco.

 

[edyvw]

Everyone doesn’t think that way. Shooting someone is the last thing I want to do, but to protect myself and my family you better believe I’d do it. I’m all for de-escalation but sometimes that simply doesn’t work. And those kids in your car are the best reasons in the world to carry a firearm.

What if you shoot someone who is not arm, like IN THIS CASE? It started with carjacking with no mention of firearms, to concealed carry. What you think is dangerous might be way out of proportion, lending you in jail, maybe injuring other people, who will then sue you.
That is why generally, we relay on law enforcement.

 

[Sandstorm]

My neighbor's car was jacked a few months ago. They bought a brand new Honda CRV and a week later, it was gone.

 

[Vern_in_IL]

It´s pretty hard to shoot someone that already has their deadly weapon out... you will be seconds too late to engage.

 

[Cujet]

It is interesting that everyone thinks that if they have a gun, they will just shoot their way out of situation.

It is my sincere hope to go to my grave, never having harmed anyone. That is why I did my very best to get away from what seemed to be a classic "YouTube video" carjacking attempt. As that was my very first though, this sure looks like what I see on YouTube.

As a very competent driver there are tools and methods available that don't involve standing your ground and shooting your way out.

 

[Starman2112]

What if you shoot someone who is not arm, like IN THIS CASE? It started with carjacking with no mention of firearms, to concealed carry. What you think is dangerous might be way out of proportion, lending you in jail, maybe injuring other people, who will then sue you.
That is why generally, we relay on law enforcement.

A person doesn’t necessarily have to be armed for you to justifiably shoot them. The law says if you reasonably believe you are in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm then you can do what you need to do to stop the threat. Ever hear of disparity of force? I think that may very well apply IN THIS CASE.

And I’m sorry, but relying on the cops to protect you is just naive. I have the utmost respect for law enforcement. But when seconds count, the police are minutes away.

 

[ATex7239]

The gun is the last line of defense.

But it isn’t the only line of defense. Yet it seems to get the most attention. As posted earlier, in the situation presented in the article shooting the robber very likely would not have been justified.

There should be a lot of focus on it. I've taken 5 defensive firearm courses in my life. The biggest focus, and first topic is always situational awareness. Then followed by the best course of action, removing yourself from the situation.

Sounds like good training.

But make no mistake, the focus on the firearm carries a lot of weight, because when it comes to the first two subjects failing you, you better know how to protect yourself and your family with what you have in your hand.

You’re kind of making my point. It’s all about the firearm. There are many ways to protect yourself and family including but limited to a gun. I have not once suggested a person cannot or should not protect themselves with a firearm. But the situation presented in the article doesn’t warrant deadly force.

 

[Pew]

What if you shoot someone who is not arm, like IN THIS CASE? It started with carjacking with no mention of firearms, to concealed carry. What you think is dangerous might be way out of proportion, lending you in jail, maybe injuring other people, who will then sue you.
That is why generally, we relay on law enforcement.

When I was jumped, the three attackers didn't have guns; or at least didn't show they had guns. If I was carrying, are you saying it's unjustified for me to defend myself at that point?

 

[ATex7239]

A person doesn’t necessarily have to be armed for you to justifiably shoot them. The law says if you reasonably believe you are in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm then you can do what you need to do to stop the threat. Ever hear of disparity of force? I think that may very well apply IN THIS CASE.

“The suspect allegedly ran up behind a customer standing near her vehicle [and] attempted to grab her cellphone from her hand,” SBSD said. “The victim was able to hold on to her phone, but the suspect grabbed her 2014 Mustang GT car keys from her and pushed her to the ground.”

Bad guy came up from behind, grabbed her things, pushed her down and ran to the car to steal it. Do you seriously think that warrants deadly force? Or more importantly do you seriously think that would fly in court under reasonable belief of grave harm or danger needed to apply the disparity of force defense. I have serious doubts shooting in this instance is justified.

 

[Starman2112]

“The suspect allegedly ran up behind a customer standing near her vehicle [and] attempted to grab her cellphone from her hand,” SBSD said. “The victim was able to hold on to her phone, but the suspect grabbed her 2014 Mustang GT car keys from her and pushed her to the ground.”

Bad guy came up from behind, grabbed her things, pushed her down and ran to the car to steal it. Do you seriously think that warrants deadly force? Or more importantly do you seriously think that would fly in court under reasonable belief of grave harm or danger needed to apply the disparity of force defense. I have serious doubts shooting in this instance is justified.

I said it may. It largely depends on where you are. In states that are soft on criminals like NY, NJ, CA, CO & MA… definitely not.

 

[edyvw]

A person doesn’t necessarily have to be armed for you to justifiably shoot them. The law says if you reasonably believe you are in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm then you can do what you need to do to stop the threat. Ever hear of disparity of force? I think that may very well apply IN THIS CASE.

And I’m sorry, but relying on the cops to protect you is just naive. I have the utmost respect for law enforcement. But when seconds count, the police are minutes away.

oh yes, that will fly In court.
Like I said, reading this feels like people are shopping in O.K. Corral.

 

[edyvw]

I said it may. It largely depends on where you are. In states that are soft on criminals like NY, NJ, CA, CO & MA… definitely not.

The crime is way down compared to two years ago, and way, way down compared to 30+ years ago.
What is different is that now you hear about car jacking in San Bernardino bcs. internet. I teach this law enforcement in terrorism and counter terrorism strategies. The perception among people few years back was that terrorism is way off the charts etc. In reality, terrorism was far more common in 60’s and 70’s. But, what you didn’t have back than is phone that you get your news on 24/7.
By the way, by far, most dangerous cities are those that pride themselves being tough on crime, starting with St. Louis.

 

[edyvw]

When I was jumped, the three attackers didn't have guns; or at least didn't show they had guns. If I was carrying, are you saying it's unjustified for me to defend myself at that point?

That would be determined at the court. However, I don’t think you would get a pass if you shot them. But, you were not armed. And I remember that. The problem is You don’t know whether they have guns and you just escalated situation from physical altercation to armed one, where you might be one against three armed persons. Now, if situation is escalated from car jacking to life death struggle, yes, I would pull gun too. But, again, huge majority of people won’t ever end up in that scenario.
Everyone wants to discuss this as clear cut scenario, when that rarely happens.
What does happen a lot is that people are more willing to enter altercations as they are armed, road rage etc.

 

[Starman2112]

The crime is way down compared to two years ago, and way, way down compared to 30+ years ago.
What is different is that now you hear about car jacking in San Bernardino bcs. internet. I teach this law enforcement in terrorism and counter terrorism strategies. The perception among people few years back was that terrorism is way off the charts etc. In reality, terrorism was far more common in 60’s and 70’s. But, what you didn’t have back than is phone that you get your news on 24/7.
By the way, by far, most dangerous cities are those that pride themselves being tough on crime, starting with St. Louis.

I know this doesn’t fit your narrative, but maybe crime is down because more people than ever are arming themselves.

 

[edyvw]

I know this doesn’t fit your narrative, but maybe crime is down because more people than ever are arming themselves.

I am not so sure based on this, but hey, perception is reality:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm

 

[bbhero]

What if you shoot someone who is not arm, like IN THIS CASE? It started with carjacking with no mention of firearms, to concealed carry. What you think is dangerous might be way out of proportion, lending you in jail, maybe injuring other people, who will then sue you.
That is why generally, we relay on law enforcement.

LAW ENFORCEMENT is just about NEVER when a crime is actually taking place..

You don’t magic KNOW another person’s intent either…

 

[bbhero]

This is why I don't believe in people carrying without proper extensive classes on when and how to properly use a firearm.

EDIT: With that said, this situation warranted a use of a firearm.

I’m sure the gangbangers, drug dealers, and other criminals are going to be packing those classes…

 

[wemay]

The crime is way down compared to two years ago, and way, way down compared to 30+ years ago.
What is different is that now you hear about car jacking in San Bernardino bcs. internet. I teach this law enforcement in terrorism and counter terrorism strategies. The perception among people few years back was that terrorism is way off the charts etc. In reality, terrorism was far more common in 60’s and 70’s. But, what you didn’t have back than is phone that you get your news on 24/7.
By the way, by far, most dangerous cities are those that pride themselves being tough on crime, starting with St. Louis.

100% on the mark.

 

[Pew]

I’m sure the gangbangers, drug dealers, and other criminals are going to be packing those classes…

The criminals were never going to take classes but an untrained law abiding citizen with a weapon is just as bad. It's not too keep carrying away from citizens; moreso that they receive proper training on when and how to use it. Proper training prevents piss poor performance.