Negotiating with a dealership for a used car.

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Originally Posted By: Kuato


Sounds like subconsciously you need more information on the claim prior to making your decision.


I don't think I'll get the info. The original owner traded it in, and the doubt the dealer would tell voluntarily give it up, even if they knew.
 
Lowered from $25,000-$23,000 means nothing, they probably paid $17K or less for it. We always asked at least $5K more than we paid for a trade or an auction car. Now factor in $9,000 in hail damage makes it a RUN, don't walk away from the deal.
 
Originally Posted By: kkreit01
What SUV? Certainly there are others of the same type in your area. I'd walk. That much damage is always going to hurt resale down the road.


Expedition EL, if you look at the sheer size of the roof, it's not hard to imagine that amount of hail dent damage.

Guys on the local forum with Civics had $4000-$5000 in dent damage, fixed by Paintless Dent Repair.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: D189379
Originally Posted By: kkreit01
What SUV? Certainly there are others of the same type in your area. I'd walk. That much damage is always going to hurt resale down the road.


Expedition EL, if you look at the sheer size of the roof, it's not hard to imagine that amount of hail dent damage.

Guys on the local forum with Civics had $4000-$5000 in dent damage, fixed by Paintless Dent Repair.


Right, but you don't know that it was fixed with paintless dent repair, and that's why it's not worth as much as one with a clean history.

To be honest, I'd be looking to pay fair price for one with no damage history, or offer significantly less for this. Can you find one with no damage history that's similar, tell this dealer you want a couple grand off for the damage history and get a deal in the 17~19 range?
 
Also consider what they'll give you for your trade. They may agree to $20k for the Expedition, but low-ball you on your trade to make up the difference.

With the hail damage, I'd look for another vehicle unless you can get it for $18k or less with a fair trade value for your vehicle.

You said their used car prices are high to begin with. I never go to those dealerships.
 
Sadly, I think you should continue your search. I have worked at a car dealer my entire adult life. The hail damage would be enough to scare me off. That combined with the substantially inflated price are a sign this vehicle is a project. Pre-owned dealers work hard to own their vehicles right so that they can sell them right. If the dealer is unwilling to sell the vehicle at or near book it means they own it for too much. Dealers are rarely willing to sell units for less than they cost; it is a business after all. Usually when a dealer owns a vehicle for too much it means they spent too much money on it repairing something after they purchased it. The right move here is to move on.
 
Considering the damage and the time that car has been on the lot, I wouldn't buy it. There must be very similar vehicles available in the area. I know when I was searching I used a 100 mile radius on my search for a vehicle I was going to buy.

Just do your research and take into account how long they've had the vehicle. Car buying isn't nearly the hassle is used to be - or needs to be. Both parties have huge amounts of information available to know what a car is worth. It should be one price, one buyer offer and one counter offer at the max. Any more than that, given all the information and inventory available, is wasting both of your times.
 
When buying a car, especially used from a dealer, do your home work. Offer them what you want to pay. Don't worry about fair. If they make a reasonable counter, buy it. If not, tell them thank you, and leave.
 
Some dealers if they made enough on a sale to you or the prior (sale)trade, even if they lose some on your trade they can asorb it. So if you end up on the right end you could get that price way lower then you think. Especially if they feel its not a popular vehicle & they want to earn your busieness.

The dealers I dislike are the ones who will send a car to auction vs giving a customer a good deal?
 
So the consensus seems to be either I get a very deep discount on this unit or move on. What do you guys think is a realistic price considering the 17,000 to 20,000 trade in value? This obviously doesn't account for the $8000 hail claim, which is the only unknown.

That's more or less what I'm trying to figure out.

I should add, there is another one almost identical nearby, minus navigation, listed for $25000. It has a bit lower mileage as well. Trade in value on this one is 20,000 to 23,000.
 
You're putting a lot of money on the line in faith of three sets of experts: the dealer, the blue book researchers, and us.

IDK where KBB comes up with their trade in price bias with hail damage.

However, dealers will absorb most of the benefit of the low price of the salvage/rebuilt/dirty title or accident history on a clean title, and sell the vehicle to some rube who can't or won't check it out thoroughly.

In other words, you already know this car is a turkey. But they know someone will come along who can't spot it for the lemon that it is, and will pay (finance) near their asking price.

Some time later after the ink drys the customer will discover this car's history. If they're particularly unlucky they'll make the last payment in 2019 then get a rebuilt title in the mail to thank them for their efforts.

Move along. You can lowball them if you wish but they won't bite. If it helps you mentally you can remember this car as "they wouldn't play ball" instead of "I didn't want it."
 
Originally Posted By: D189379
So the consensus seems to be either I get a very deep discount on this unit or move on. What do you guys think is a realistic price considering the 17,000 to 20,000 trade in value? This obviously doesn't account for the $8000 hail claim, which is the only unknown.

That's more or less what I'm trying to figure out.

I should add, there is another one almost identical nearby, minus navigation, listed for $25000. It has a bit lower mileage as well. Trade in value on this one is 20,000 to 23,000.


Unless you plan on running this thing into the ground and you can get a smokin' deal on it I would pass. You're just never going to be able to get a fair amount for it with the damage history.

Honestly, it sounds like you're OK with paying $21K. If I were you I would go to the second dealer and try to work them down from $25K.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
You're putting a lot of money on the line in faith of three sets of experts: the dealer, the blue book researchers, and us.

IDK where KBB comes up with their trade in price bias with hail damage.

However, dealers will absorb most of the benefit of the low price of the salvage/rebuilt/dirty title or accident history on a clean title, and sell the vehicle to some rube who can't or won't check it out thoroughly.

In other words, you already know this car is a turkey. But they know someone will come along who can't spot it for the lemon that it is, and will pay (finance) near their asking price.

Some time later after the ink drys the customer will discover this car's history. If they're particularly unlucky they'll make the last payment in 2019 then get a rebuilt title in the mail to thank them for their efforts.

Move along. You can lowball them if you wish but they won't bite. If it helps you mentally you can remember this car as "they wouldn't play ball" instead of "I didn't want it."


Well to be fair, the dealer did include the carproof report attached to their ad and the claim shows up bright as day, so they aren't trying to throw smoke here.
 
The only real way is to find all the comps in the area and work from there. I'll say that you are finding some smoking deals up there, we were 10k more on a 2010 Limited in Texas.
 
When I was in the business we prayed for hail, you get the repair profit, plus you advertise the "hail damage" specials. You make out on both ends.
Dealers make the most on used transactions.

You buy you pay, such is life.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Make sure there are no "dealer fees" on top of the asking price.


Easiest way to deal with pricing is to offer an all-inclusive "out the door" price. I have done that several times successfully. It is kind of fun to sit and watch them work backwards.
 
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Easiest way to deal with pricing is to offer an all-inclusive "out the door" price. I have done that several times successfully. It is kind of fun to sit and watch them work backwards.


+1

But you would be surprised how they still try to add those "dealer fee's" and such even after quoting an OTD price.
 
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Easiest way to deal with pricing is to offer an all-inclusive "out the door" price. I have done that several times successfully. It is kind of fun to sit and watch them work backwards.


+1

But you would be surprised how they still try to add those "dealer fee's" and such even after quoting an OTD price.


No problem. In that case I'm "out the door." Never have made it to the parking lot yet before they understand the concept.
 
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