Negative experience with EBC Ultimax2 Brake Pads

[vavavroom]

Wait BMW has software controlled brake fade? I thought brake fade was brake fluid boiling and not stopping because you know bubble bubble toil and trouble.

BMW has brake fade compensation. As brake fade is detected the brakes are proportionally boosted more and more. The driver still gets the spongy feedback that signals brake fade.

 

[Craig in Canada]

BMW has brake fade compensation. As brake fade is detected the brakes are proportionally boosted more and more. The driver still gets the spongy feedback that signals brake fade.

What I really want to know is HOW it is detected. And is there a possibility of incorrect "detection" because it is actually inference, or calculated.

The only sensors at the wheels are wheel speed sensors, which won't tell you about fade. A pressure drop in a branch detected by DSC could detect fluid boil, but not pad fade. Reduced calculated deceleration despite continuous brake fluid pressure could do it.

And, ultimately, are there coding options available for this and other subjective characteristics of braking. For instance, could I change a coding value in my F10 to get firmer, "sportier" brake pedal feel and increasing brake torque more like my E90 had. I've read lots of things about coding F30s for the "correct" brakes when you do a retrofit and pedal feel changing. I've seen no discussion on F10s because there are not so many buyer choices of brake package per model.

 

[LordNilesStandish]

What I really want to know is HOW it is detected. And is there a possibility of incorrect "detection" because it is actually inference, or calculated.

The only sensors at the wheels are wheel speed sensors, which won't tell you about fade. A pressure drop in a branch detected by DSC could detect fluid boil, but not pad fade. Reduced calculated deceleration despite continuous brake fluid pressure could do it.

And, ultimately, are there coding options available for this and other subjective characteristics of braking. For instance, could I change a coding value in my F10 to get firmer, "sportier" brake pedal feel and increasing brake torque more like my E90 had. I've read lots of things about coding F30s for the "correct" brakes when you do a retrofit and pedal feel changing. I've seen no discussion on F10s because there are not so many buyer choices of brake package per model.

It's the first I've heard of it as well.
Bimmer Code or Bimmer Link would work?

 

[vavavroom]

What I really want to know is HOW it is detected. And is there a possibility of incorrect "detection" because it is actually inference, or calculated.

Brake fade is calculated based on pressure changes in the brake hydraulic system and on ABS and wheel speed sensor data. With this data, decreased deceleration can be detected. It also seems to me the car boosts the brakes more as it is driven more aggressively.

The only sensors at the wheels are wheel speed sensors, which won't tell you about fade. A pressure drop in a branch detected by DSC could detect fluid boil, but not pad fade. Reduced calculated deceleration despite continuous brake fluid pressure could do it.

And, ultimately, are there coding options available for this and other subjective characteristics of braking. For instance, could I change a coding value in my F10 to get firmer, "sportier" brake pedal feel and increasing brake torque more like my E90 had. I've read lots of things about coding F30s for the "correct" brakes when you do a retrofit and pedal feel changing. I've seen no discussion on F10s because there are not so many buyer choices of brake package per model.

Just turn it off if you go on the track.

 

[Nesterenko]

Semi-metallic pads regardless are they track or street , will create dust, whether you brakes aggressively or not.

He was referring to Organic pads, maybe different compound than semi -metallic.

 

[LordNilesStandish]

And, ultimately, are there coding options available for this and other subjective characteristics of braking. For instance, could I change a coding value in my F10 to get firmer, "sportier" brake pedal feel and increasing brake torque more like my E90 had. I've read lots of things about coding F30s for the "correct" brakes when you do a retrofit and pedal feel changing. I've seen no discussion on F10s because there are not so many buyer choices of brake package per model.

If you could do it probably BimmerCode in expert mode would be the way.
I doubt though you will ever get a F10 to feel like a e90. The f10 is deliberately a very refined driving experience.
If you want sportier go a G30.

 

[Craig in Canada]

If you could do it probably BimmerCode in expert mode would be the way.
I doubt though you will ever get a F10 to feel like a e90. The f10 is deliberately a very refined driving experience.
If you want sportier go a G30.

My bigger question is what if there are any FDLs relating to brakes to change on an F10. Generally I find that nothing is spoken of and there are zero hits on google, because there aren't options from the factory (except the high speed euro braking package, I suppose).

All the action is on F30s and other 3ers which are available with several options when ordered, and dealer retrofits are available which require coding when installed. I've read accounts online (which I find interesting) where F30 owners upgraded from the baseline floating piston calipers to M Performance 4 pot fixed calipers and "still found them mushy". Then they remembered to code the retrofit and the pedal firmed up and braking was fantastic. Was it just brake balance? If the hardware upgrade didn't fix the brake feel, would it be possible to change the coding and get the better feel even without the hardware upgrade?

Tons of info out there on gimmicks like auto-folding your side mirrors, but very little on coding for actual driving experience.

I'm not buying a G30 just in case it has a firmer brake pedal, nor am I changing FDLs all over the place in DSC with no guidance just to see what happens.

 

[edyvw]

If you could do it probably BimmerCode in expert mode would be the way.
I doubt though you will ever get a F10 to feel like a e90. The f10 is deliberately a very refined driving experience.
If you want sportier go a G30.

I don't think coding is going to improve the feel. Coding used for different brakes is to adjust EBD. I coded brakes on E90 when I installed Brembo brakes. There is an option called Sport Package Brake Retrofit (SPBR) that adjusts EBD.
However, it seems that there is SPBR available on F models:
https://www.bimmerscene.com/showthread.php?tid=324

 

[edyvw]

My bigger question is what if there are any FDLs relating to brakes to change on an F10. Generally I find that nothing is spoken of and there are zero hits on google, because there aren't options from the factory (except the high speed euro braking package, I suppose).

All the action is on F30s and other 3ers which are available with several options when ordered, and dealer retrofits are available which require coding when installed. I've read accounts online (which I find interesting) where F30 owners upgraded from the baseline floating piston calipers to M Performance 4 pot fixed calipers and "still found them mushy". Then they remembered to code the retrofit and the pedal firmed up and braking was fantastic. Was it just brake balance? If the hardware upgrade didn't fix the brake feel, would it be possible to change the coding and get the better feel even without the hardware upgrade?

Tons of info out there on gimmicks like auto-folding your side mirrors, but very little on coding for actual driving experience.

I'm not buying a G30 just in case it has a firmer brake pedal, nor am I changing FDLs all over the place in DSC with no guidance just to see what happens.

Maybe SPBR function on F models increases pressure. MC on F models is electronically controlled unlike E models where it is independent and to get good feel one must go from 328/335 MC to M3 MC and SPBR coding.

 

[LordNilesStandish]

Maybe SPBR function on F models increases pressure. MC on F models is electronically controlled unlike E models where it is independent and to get good feel one must go from 328/335 MC to M3 MC and SPBR coding.

What about m5 coding? Is that floating around in there somewhere?

 

[LordNilesStandish]

I had to move both cars this evening ahead of a storm.
I drove the G30 with 2NH brake option then the f10 with std brakes.
There was not a huge difference between them just driving normally. Both were good.
Is everything up to scratch? No air in lines or bad pads, leaks,?

 

[edyvw]

What about m5 coding? Is that floating around in there somewhere?

Not sure. Whatever software works best with certain series, I would go through options and check.

 

[edyvw]

Not sure. Whatever software works best with certain series, I would go through options and check.

Actually, I was thinking about this. I would say M5 won't have SPBR. For example, SPBR was only available on E90 325/328/330. 335 and M3 already had EBD tuned for larger brakes.

 

[D1dad]

We just put two new front calipers and ebc green all the way around on my nephews Silverado. The rears don’t make a sound but the fronts clunk. We swapped out the old calipers with the new pads and hardware and pins and just about everything you can think of trying to chase it down. It seems like a caliper issue. These are TRQ calipers. Pads are tight, everything’s torqued to spec. At this point I’d trade it in.

 

[edyvw]

We just put two new front calipers and ebc green all the way around on my nephews Silverado. The rears don’t make a sound but the fronts clunk. We swapped out the old calipers with the new pads and hardware and pins and just about everything you can think of trying to chase it down. It seems like a caliper issue. These are TRQ calipers. Pads are tight, everything’s torqued to spec. At this point I’d trade it in.

TRQ is something I would get if it is like, plastic piece in trunk. Like decorative piece.

 

[D1dad]

TRQ is something I would get if it is like, plastic piece in trunk. Like decorative piece.

I used a couple of their parts back when they were 1a auto and they were just OK. I refused to pay $700 for a Cv shaft and it filled the bill on my Volvo. I can’t for the life of me figure out this clunk The pads ears fit tight enough and everything is tightened to spec

 

[Rust_Belt_Pete]

I used a couple of their parts back when they were 1a auto and they were just OK. I refused to pay $700 for a Cv shaft and it filled the bill on my Volvo. I can’t for the life of me figure out this clunk The pads ears fit tight enough and everything is tightened to spec

Are you 100% sure its the pads? Can you replicate that sound on the lift?

 

[PandaBear]

I used Axxis / EBC ultimate around 15-20 years ago, same experience as your 1) and 3). It is a pad with a lot of bite and squeal, chew through rotors, but the bite "feels" great. I won't use it again due to the dust and how fast it chew through the rotors.

 

[edyvw]

I used Axxis / EBC ultimate around 15-20 years ago, same experience as your 1) and 3). It is a pad with a lot of bite and squeal, chew through rotors, but the bite "feels" great. I won't use it again due to the dust and how fast it chew through the rotors.

You must have appropriate rotors for them. They are good with EBC Sport rotors.
But, Pagid makes pads for Toyota, at least, and they have excellent bite. Nit sure about rotor longevity with those.

 

[D1dad]

Are you 100% sure its the pads? Can you replicate that sound on the lift?

It was the pads. He went to advance and bought a set of platinums for the front and the pad knock is gone. I had ultimax 2s on one of my cars that had pad clunk when backing out and then the 1st initial stop going forward. I switched to brembos and the sound was gone. I figured it was a fluke, I’ve ran ebc on my 21 since the oems came off and perfect. Seems like ebc misses the mark on a few models. To much money and pain when you can’t just run up town and return them. He emailed ebc so it’s a waiting game now.