Need oil term definitions

[Silver]

I thought I found this once, but I can't find it. HTHS, CCS, MRV, etc. I need an explanation of each so I can interpret the specs for oils.

Right now I'm looking for the thinnest syn blend 0W30 or 5W30 HM on the thin side both at startup and at temp. I'll take the fish if you can teach me how to fish at the same time!

 

[oil_film_movies]

There aren't any 0w30 HM oils available, so mark that one off your list. You can "convert" just about any normal oil to an "HM" type simply by adding a half-bottle of LiquiMoly Motor Oil Saver which is mostly seal conditioners.

 

[oil_film_movies]

CCS and MRV will give you oils that are thinnest at very cold temperatures, although they don't really say how thin they will be at say a more typical winter temperature of 20 degF.
I think the way to find an oil that is thinnest when it's cold outside, is to find the thinnest at KV40, and get a "0w" rating on top of that. Instead of a "0w" you can find thinnest KV40 of a "5w" since there are so few 0w30 oils out there. Mobil1 AFE 0w30 is the only one I can think of in the thin-ish SN GF5 types.

Some spec sheets have KV40, many don't. PQIA lists a lot of them but for some old obsolete oils way too often.

 

[PimTac]

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

 

[OilUzer]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
There aren't any 0w30 HM oils available, so mark that one off your list. You can "convert" just about any normal oil to an "HM" type simply by adding a half-bottle of LiquiMoly Motor Oil Saver which is mostly seal conditioners.


Aren't HM oils typically on the thicker side of the spec? Just curious if adding the liqui moly can completely get you there!
Also OP wants the thinnest 5Wx30 HM. Doesn't that defeat the whole idea of using HM? I don't use HM but was under impression that they are on the thicker side of spec as well as higher hths! No? so a thin thick doesn't make sense

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by OilUzer
Aren't HM oils typically on the thicker side of the spec? Just curious if adding the liqui moly can completely get you there!
Also OP wants the thinnest 5Wx30 HM. Doesn't that defeat the whole idea of using HM? I don't use HM but was under impression that they are on the thicker side of spec as well as higher hths! No? so a thin thick doesn't make sense

A well formulated normal non-HM oil has everything you need except maybe (for older engines) a little extra seal conditioners that HM oils market to you.
Sure, some HM oils are a little on the thick side, and some aren't. For example, Valvoline MaxLife full syn 5w30 kv100=10.1, and silver bottle M1 5w30 kv100=11.0, so comparisons vary depending on which brand of HM vs. normal non-HM oil you compare to each other.

For winter, it can be good to look for the thinnest KV40 you can find within your engine's spec recommendation, as it should deliver something that flows better cold on typical 20 degF mornings. ...
------If you're thinking down at super-cold temperatures, then a "0w" is probably is what you should get, like M1 AFE 0w20 or 0w30 is a good choice when its really super cold.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by Silver
I thought I found this once, but I can't find it. HTHS, CCS, MRV, etc. I need an explanation of each so I can interpret the specs for oils.

Right now I'm looking for the thinnest syn blend 0W30 or 5W30 HM on the thin side both at startup and at temp. I'll take the fish if you can teach me how to fish at the same time!


HTHS - High Temp, High Shear. It tests the oil's shear stability, typically at 150*C. It's about as close of a test for MOFT in engine bearings as you'll get. The higher the dynamic viscosity with this test, the thicker the oil film with the trade-off of increased hydrodynamic friction. Below is the typical standards for each grade though keep in mind that they aren't always true. Some specialty 20 grades have a HTHS in 30 grade territory, for example.
--- 20 grade oils = HTHS @ 150*C of 2.6 cP or higher
--- 30 grade oils = HTHS @ 150*C of 2.9 cP or higher
--- 40 grade oils = HTHS @ 150*C of 3.5 cP or higher (3.7 cP for 15w40)
--- 50 grade oils = HTHS @ 150*C of 3.7 cP or higher

CCS - Cold Cranking Viscosity. This measures the pumpability of the oil at extremely cold temperatures in dynamic viscosity. A good example for this is jello. It won't pour out of a bowl, but you can suck it through a straw therefore it is pumpable. The figures below are the minimum temperatures that must be met with less than 6,600 cP dynamic viscosity. In temperatures higher than -15*C, a lower grade tends to not hold any advantage. Also note that a wider spread in the multi-grade (0w-40, 5w-40, 5w-50, etc...), the more viscosity index improvers (VIIs) are required which can tend to lower the HTHS mentioned above.
--- 0w-xx = -35*C
--- 5w-xx = -30*C
--- 10w-xx = -25*C
--- 15w-xx = -20*C
--- 20w-xx = -15*C

Some oils will trend higher in the same grade for a high mileage formula. Chevron Havoline is a good example since their conventional 5w30 non-HM has a kinematic viscosity @ 100*C of 9.85 cSt. The HM version of 5w30 has a kinematic viscosity @ 100*C of 11.75 cSt. However, they both are near the minimum 2.90-3.00 cP HTHS in a running engine. The higher KV100 for the HM is to just help slow leaks in areas that don't see direct oil pressure like valve cover and oil pan gaskets.

 

[Silver]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR


Thank you. Could you elaborate on 100c, 40c or am I ok taking those as self explanatory (cold and hot visc)? Also MRV?

So to explain looking for a "thin thick" I'm looking to run this in an aging engine that was originally spec'd for 5W20.

 

[OilUzer]

Originally Posted by Silver
...
So to explain looking for a "thin thick" I'm looking to run this in an aging engine that was originally spec'd for 5W20.


I see. Good move

one good choice would be Pennzoil Platinum 5Wx30. Not sure if it comes in HM or not. Also some may argue that synthetic may not be the best choice for older cars! Have you always been using synthetic?
You have to do a search on this site. Lots of HM oil discussions ...

 

[ZeeOSix]

I don't think there is enough difference in the 5w30 oils out there to make a real difference to the engine. Now if you were going from a 20 to a 40 or 50, then it might.

 

[Silver]

I bought it used so don't know. I figure if the synthetic loosens up stuff, I'll have the detergents to help the seals.