Need oil for 1935 Plymouth

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kevm14

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The 292 question was just a warm-up
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My next door neighbor has a 1935 Plymouth PJ Business Coupe and I have volunteered to be the car's mechanic. Her late husband left her the car over 5 years ago, after he restored it to resemble his first car as a young man. It is in great shape and fortunately I have been able to get everything working, reliably. I drive it whenever I can.

With that said, I have no data to suggest that it's had its oil changed since her husband died. The level is great, the oil looks great and there is no smoke, so the engine is in good health. I'd like to change the oil but I was completely unsure what to use. I'd guess they specified something like a 30W originally but after reading the replies in my 292 thread, I am thinking Rotella T 10W-30 might do a great job in this Plymouth. It is a flat-head inline 6. Thoughts?

By the way, I am sure someone will be curious. Here is the car: http://kevinallenmoore.com/photo/v/F40fd/35Plymouth/
 
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Does the engine have a filter? Do you know if the engine has ever used modern detergent motor oil? If the answer to either is no, you should probably stick with a non-detergent 30W. The Valvoline VV265 30W is a good choice in the old engines.

Switching an old engine that has always had 30W to a modern oil will "clean" the engine. Sounds like a good thing, but it will cause the engine to start using oil in many cases. You may also have to change it more frequently since the deposits will be getting cleaned out and suspended in the oil. If the engine has been rebuilt or converted in the past to a modern detergent oil, you could use something like the 15W-40 you mentioned or a good 10W-40.
 
Originally Posted By: Sunstealer
Does the engine have a filter? Do you know if the engine has ever used modern detergent motor oil? If the answer to either is no, you should probably stick with a non-detergent 30W. The Valvoline VV265 30W is a good choice in the old engines.

Switching an old engine that has always had 30W to a modern oil will "clean" the engine. Sounds like a good thing, but it will cause the engine to start using oil in many cases. You may also have to change it more frequently since the deposits will be getting cleaned out and suspended in the oil. If the engine has been rebuilt or converted in the past to a modern detergent oil, you could use something like the 15W-40 you mentioned or a good 10W-40.


I'm sorry, but a ND oil in a gasoline engine? Why on earth? I wouldn't even use a ND oil in a lawnmower!

To OP: Castrol GTX 10W-30? Maybe something with a little more ZDDP for that old engine.
 
Yes, ND in a 1935 engine if that is what it has always had. I thought that was common knowledge, it is in the antique car and tractor world anyway. I have friends that use it with no problems in their antiques. I have never had an engine that old, so I have never personally used it.

Also, if the engine has no oil filter, using a detergent oil will clean the deposits off the engine internals, but there will be no filter to clean them out of the oil. So, they will just be circulating through the oiling system.
 
Originally Posted By: Sunstealer
Yes, ND in a 1935 engine if that is what it has always had. I thought that was common knowledge, it is in the antique car and tractor world anyway. I have friends that use it with no problems in their antiques. I have never had an engine that old, so I have never personally used it.

Also, if the engine has no oil filter, using a detergent oil will clean the deposits off the engine internals, but there will be no filter to clean them out of the oil. So, they will just be circulating through the oiling system.


Using a detergent oil will break down sludge, and other things. Oil filters generally are there to clean insolubles out of the oil (dirt, etc) these will get in the oil regardless of if it is a ND or not. Just because they used ND oil back then doesn't mean it should be used now. At the time, that was all they had. A modern PCMO, or HDEO would protect the engine much better than any ND oil would. ND would probably result in relatively fast build up of varnish, and formation of sludge.
 
I agree with you on the buildup. My point is that if the engine has not been rebuilt, the sludge and varnish is already there. A detergent oil will just stir it up and possibly cause blocked oil passages, knocks, etc.

If it were my car, I would switch it to a modern oil and change it several times in a relatively short period of time until I was sure all the deposits are cleaned out. Depending on how easy, I would also pull the oil pan and clean it out good. If I were changing it for a friend or neighbor (as the original poster said), I would stick with what I was fairly sure would not cause other problems. The Valvoline is rated SB, so you still get some additives beyond the SA that would have been more authentic for a car that old.
 
i have one of those chrysler I-6 and it has had 15w-40hdeo run through it for at least the last 15+ years with no issues.

prior to the 15w-40 we run straight 30 diesel oil, and when i was a little kid i remember dad using ND (early 70's), so its been off of ND for many years.
fleetguard makes a filter for these flathead chryslers, so ther're readily available
 
Looking at some of the engine pics you can see the engine has gone through and is probably as clean inside then it was when it was new. I see alot of post war fasteners and I don't know when they started using grade 5 markings. & zinc plated bolts I wouldn't hesitate running the oil you suggest and I think its a very adequate choice. Its a flat head so there is no oiling going on up top. You need to take advantage of the modern oil you have accessible to you.
 
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I would use either a HDEO (10W30 or 15W40) or a HM oil (10W30 or 10W40). Since it's been rebuilt, I'd lean toward a 10W30 HDEO myself. I've always liked the mid-late 30's Plymouths! Nice car!
 
From MoToR's Auto Repair Manual(covering all American cars built between 1935 and 1949)...

1935 Plymouth PJ:

Crankcase capacity: 5 quarts

Grade of oil above +32 F. = 20
Grade of oil above +10 F. = 20W
Grade of oil above -10 F. = 10W

The transmission takes 2 3/4 pints of 90 summer or winter

The differential takes 3 1/4 pints of 140 in the summer and 90 in the winter
 
The original oil was probably straight 20 and may have had a recommendation for for cutting it with kerosene in the winter. Oil change intervals would have been 500-1000 miles.

I would stray from the manufacturers recommendation on this one.
 
Thanks for the pics. Is that a rumble seat coupe or a trunk space above the spare tire? The oil filter looks identical to the one in my 1937 Dodge (D5 sedan). It takes a Purolator P-70 element or equivalent.FWIW--Oldtommy
 
Use Rotella 30wt, 15w40 or 10w30 HDDO in that car and not worry about it. Its going to be super easy on oil. It doesnt have half the loads put on it like modern engines of today with all the pollutants getting put back into the motor. Anyone that said to use a non detergent oil is wrong, that doesnt even say its motor oil, its lubricating oil. Any oil that is SA or SB is not oil designed for older cars, its a oil rating that is a obsolete oil rating, all the new oil ratings such as SL, SM exceed the rating before it. Therefore they would be the best oil to put in, the new oil out is state of the art designed with technology not avaiable in the 1930s. Its better than ever. Have you ever heard of something too good to use. Being a old engine has nothing to do with the oil put in it. It is going to have the same combustable activities going on as any modern engine. The point that you say how clean the oil looks, tells me that the pollutants and by products of combustion now get to go out the exhaust instead of back into the engine to confine them and keep the EPA happy.
 
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