Nearly arrested

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
So who did I steal it from? It was abandoned property left at a dump. Its not like I took it from somebody's garage.

If I took 5 quarts of used motor oil would it be a big deal? After all, I could put it in my car and save $25 in cost of oil.


Wow. Are you serious? If yes then you might want to explore property ownership laws as you may not be as lucky the next time.


Ok, I'll call. I am serious. I was at a dump facility that I pay taxes to have exist. That I use by virtue of the taxes I pay.

First tell me what is so wrong with taking 5 qts of used oil for my hypothetical beater, and then we can move onto the batteries which do have some bona fide value.

Last I looked at the borough's balance sheet, income from the public dump (which again specifically says oil only) was not a line item. And I pay nearly $8k a year in property tax. Trust me, if scrapping batteries helped the bottom line and were somehow magically "town's property" after being disposed of, I'd have donated my 214 lbs of batteries to the cause.

You make it out as if I'm so lucky. There could be a sign there that states that people cannot remove items from the dump. The cop could have merely said that and I'd had just as quickly put the batteries back. But to say that I'm lucky and should be happy giving out my SSN because I was taking something from a dump that was illegally left there, in a facility that I pay for is a bit far fetched.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
So who did I steal it from? It was abandoned property left at a dump. Its not like I took it from somebody's garage.


You must be stealing from the landfill employees that likely would have done the same thing anyhow.

I don't see a problem with it. I'm no big environmentalist, but I see you as trying to do the environment a favour, while making a couple bucks at it. The batteries aren't supposed to be there. They are supposed to be disposed of properly. They weren't disposed of properly, and you were trying to remedy that situation.

What's next? Are we going to complain about the old, retired guys picking up empties from the ditches?

 

[buickman50401]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
In most cases smart people cooperate. It's generally a good idea.

Disagree. Smart people shut their mouths and answer questions as shortly and directly as possible, preferably in a YES/NO fashion.

Doesn't matter what you were doing (illegal or not) giving cops anything beyond the bare information/answers necessary to keep you out of the hoosegow is the wise choice.

Anything beyond the bare minimum given to a cop is simply setting yourself up for a fishing expedition.

No, never been a cop. Yes have worked in corrections. Ask any attorney and they'll tell you to keep your mouth shut as much as possible regardless of if you were doing anything illegal.

Even when calling the cops to report something or dealing with them when a crime has been committed against you, its best to mind your P's and Q's and pay close attention to what is coming out of your mouth.

Edit:
It's particularly smart practice these days with the shrinking budgets of public entities having turned much of "policing" into an exercise in revenue generation to supplement budget shortages.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: buickman50401
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
In most cases smart people cooperate. It's generally a good idea.

Disagree. Smart people shut their mouths and answer questions as shortly and directly as possible, preferably in a YES/NO fashion.

Doesn't matter what you were doing (illegal or not) giving cops anything beyond the bare information/answers necessary to keep you out of the hoosegow is the wise choice.

Anything beyond the bare minimum given to a cop is simply setting yourself up for a fishing expedition.

No, never been a cop. Yes have worked in corrections. Ask any attorney and they'll tell you to keep your mouth shut as much as possible regardless of if you were doing anything illegal.

Even when calling the cops to report something or dealing with them when a crime has been committed against you, its best to mind your P's and Q's and pay close attention to what is coming out of your mouth.

Edit:
It's particularly smart practice these days with the shrinking budgets of public entities having turned much of "policing" into an exercise in revenue generation to supplement budget shortages.


Good advice.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Good advice.

Yep, pretty much the professional advice I was given.
In response to: "If you can't trust the police, who can you trust"
My degree of Trust depends on what I could loose!
For instance: I might Trust a guy on this site yo pay-up $20 if I sell some oil filters, But I might not 'Trust' the same guy to pay several K$ on a larger purchase.
Too much at stake.
With a Cop, I can easily loose my liberty!

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Ok, I'll call. I am serious. I was at a dump facility that I pay taxes to have exist. That I use by virtue of the taxes I pay.

First tell me what is so wrong with taking 5 qts of used oil for my hypothetical beater, and then we can move onto the batteries which do have some bona fide value.

Last I looked at the borough's balance sheet, income from the public dump (which again specifically says oil only) was not a line item. And I pay nearly $8k a year in property tax. Trust me, if scrapping batteries helped the bottom line and were somehow magically "town's property" after being disposed of, I'd have donated my 214 lbs of batteries to the cause.

You make it out as if I'm so lucky. There could be a sign there that states that people cannot remove items from the dump. The cop could have merely said that and I'd had just as quickly put the batteries back. But to say that I'm lucky and should be happy giving out my SSN because I was taking something from a dump that was illegally left there, in a facility that I pay for is a bit far fetched.


I think the argument of "I'm a tax payer so I own everything that the government or public own" has been abused for way too long.

I don't like to listen to these kind of statement in general, but tolerate to some extend if it is regarding to government spending. But this is the first time I've seen someone use this argument for a right to make profit off stuff dropped off at the county that doesn't belong to the individual.

Since I do not live in the same county as you do and am not a tax payer, I'll leave it at that.

I'm not targeting your particular action but this sort of argument has been abused by individual on anything that doesn't go their ways. You are being defensive right now and it is not going to score you any brownie points.

 

[JHZR2]

I'm not making an "I pay the taxes so I rule the world" type claim... But again, it's my town, it's hazmat that is NOT supposed to be abandoned there, and somehow I'm to blame?

Again, I ask if it would be so bad if I was taking 5 qts of used motor oil to put into my jalopy?

 

[Shannow]

Law down here is that title transfers to the municipality as soon as both hands are taken off the object at the depot.

They are trying to do the same for roadside collection as well, but struggling.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I'm not making an "I pay the taxes so I rule the world" type claim... But again, it's my town, it's hazmat that is NOT supposed to be abandoned there, and somehow I'm to blame?

Again, I ask if it would be so bad if I was taking 5 qts of used motor oil to put into my jalopy?


It wouldn't have mattered whether it was the battery, used oil or a pebble. You were not the title holder of any of these items and you cannot unilaterally transfer the title to yourself. There should be a consent by the current owner for the transfer.

Did the recycling center have a sign authorizing for people to take anything (a consent)? If not then no one has right to take anything away.

Imagine the following scenario - you drive your car to the recycling center and have batteries in it. You are out there scavenging for used batteries. A passer by sees the batteries in your car, thinks that batteries should not be recycled there. To save the county time, he removes those batteries from the car that is parked at the recycling center thinking that he might make a few bucks while helping the county.

How would you react to that? It's theft, isn't it, even though there is a very good explanation for what the Good Samaritan citizen did.