Nearly 50% of men who have never flown or landed an airplane think they could safely land a passenger airplane

[Just a civilian pilot]

Many, not all, flight attendants come up front and just see us "sitting there" and occasionally make some jealous or ignorant comment about how easy it looks.

Anything is easy when you know how to do it.

A few have asked, "what would happen if both of you died? Could someone else onboard fly and land the plane that has no experience ".

I tell them to read about the FA on the B737.

Not in a million years.

That's not ego, that's reality.

 

[slo town]

I think the "50%" might have enough skill to direct the airplane over an unpopulated area before it cratered. That's where I'd focus my effort if I ended up in this situation - I'd try to save lives on the ground and give my fellow passengers enough time to make some phone calls.

Scott

 

[UncleDave]

Most guys cant back a boat down a ramp.

Land a commercial plane with zero experience - put the pipe down.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

In the words of Clint Eastwood "A man has to know his limitations". LOL

And woman, very true.

 

[PWMDMD]

Freud was a hack, more pseudoscience and platitudes.

It’s just a saying…not an endorsement.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Just checked …..FA actually had a pilot licence, not just some flight training.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

How can this possibly be?

Well, some of these men played some kind of flight simulator either in their childhood, or during their teenage/younger years. Others have a vivid imagination, while some have seen one too many action movies...

Because remember: in a high stress situation, your adrenaline and survival instincts will kick in, and consequently... it'll come to you... almost instantly!

Joking aside, without proper training and experience, landing any kind of airplane, let alone a commercial jet, is absolutely impossible. And that's something those playing flight sims should have already picked up on.

 

[billt460]

In 1998, we bought two new 747-400 simulators. Because we bought two at the same time, we got a deal on them.

It was only $50 million for the pair.

Which doesn’t include things like the 4’ (yes, foot) thick concrete pad, 440v power, and building to house it.

The building in which they were installed could fit 10 full motion simulators. It cost $75 million.

Is it true you can be type rated in a given jet, (airliner), without actually leaving the ground in it? Just because the sims are so real.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

You have defined one of the aspects of a non-pilot trying to land any airplane.


When I was a full-time instructor, 30 years ago, I had a senior 747 captain come into the FBO where I instructed, wanting to get checked out in an Arrow so he could take his family for a ride. I was fairly new at instructing and thought if this guy can fly 747s, then he surly can fly an Arrow. We did the ground work and went up for a flight. All was well until we were on short final. We were getting slow and just as I pointed to the airspeed and said, "we're slow" he started his flare, about 100 feet too high, and at the same time pulled the power to idle. In a piston engine, when you pull the power to idle, it goes to zero thrust immediately. The airspeed got way slow and the stall horn started chirping at us. I went to full power and pushed the nose down, this to save us from stalling and nose diving into the ground. I had to literally jerk the yoke back to try to arrest the fast descent rate. We hit the ground on the rear wheels, nose high, with a pretty high descent rate and slow. Of course we bounced. To make it worse, he never let go of the controls, so I was working against him. This all happened in about 5 seconds. It scared both of us. All because he wasn't familiar with a Piper Arrow. If I hadn't been sitting beside him, I am 100% certain he would have crashed.

We taxied to the hanger in silence. We got out and he walked to the office, paid, and I never saw him again. He didn't log the time or get my signature in his log book. He knew he had no business in small airplanes, unless he was going to get some serious instruction time and he wasn't interested.

The hard landing sheared a bolt in the landing gear. Which wasn't found until the 100 hour inspection about a week later.

I never again assumed anything about any pilot I flew with.

Never assume someone is a great pilot by what plane they fly or how thick their logbook is OR where they got their initial flight training from ( flying club on your own, aviation college, military, ).

I do not care where they came from or how many hours they have.

Any airline pilot that shows up to get checked out on a small aircraft but hasn't flown one for 30 years, etc, watch out.

I haven't flown a light aircraft since the 1980s and I am planning on renting one but I want a very thorough check out and I am not even going to mention I fly for an airline.

 

[wwillson]

Well, some of these men played some kind of flight simulator either in their childhood, or during their teenage/younger years.

I gave an intro ride to a teenager one time, who wanted to get a license. His father spent about 15 minutes telling me how much time his kid spent flying Microsoft flight simulator and how good he was at it. I'm sure he was.

From the moment we took off, the kid's eyes were glued to the instrument panel, he almost never looked outside. Staring at the instrument panel isn't how you learn to fly an airplane. I prompted him several times to look outside and keep the airplane straight and level by looking at the horizon. He completely ignored me, so I covered the instrument panel with a sectional chart and said, "You've had a complete panel failure". He wasn't amused. He did fly the airplane by reference to instruments pretty well, but that's advanced primary stuff, it's not done on an intro ride. Since he wanted to get a license, I figured we would get started correctly. He did take a couple more lessons, but I couldn't get his eyes outside of the airplane, he just kept staring at the instruments. His notion was that you stare at the panel in a real airplane, like you do in Microsoft Flight Sim. We gave up on each other about the same time.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

(to be ultra clear, yes that is a joke)

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Well, some of these men played some kind of flight simulator either in their childhood, or during their teenage/younger years. Others have a vivid imagination, while some have seen one too many action movies...

Because remember: in a high stress situation, your adrenaline and survival instincts will kick in, and consequently... it'll come to you... almost instantly!

Joking aside, without proper training and experience, landing any kind of airplane, let alone a commercial jet, is absolutely impossible. And that's something those playing flight sims should have already picked up on.

I gave an intro ride to a teenager one time, who wanted to get a license. His father spent about 15 minutes telling me how much time his kid spent flying Microsoft flight simulator and how good he was at it. I'm sure he was.

From the moment we took off, the kid's eyes were glued to the instrument panel, he almost never looked outside. Staring at the instrument panel isn't how you learn to fly an airplane. I prompted him several times to look outside and keep the airplane straight and level by looking at the horizon. He completely ignored me, so I covered the instrument panel with a sectional chart and said, "You've had a complete panel failure". He wasn't amused. He did fly the airplane by reference to instruments pretty well, but that's advanced primary stuff, it's not done on an intro ride. Since he wanted to get a license, I figured we would get started correctly. He did take a couple more lessons, but I couldn't get his eyes outside of the airplane, he just kept staring at the instruments. His notion was that you stare at the panel in a real airplane, like you do in Microsoft Flight Sim. We gave up on each other about the same time.

Very true.

IIRC, the very first lesson we gave was “ attitude and movements “, all relative to looking outside.

 

[Astro14]

I think the "50%" might have enough skill to direct the airplane over an unpopulated area before it cratered. That's where I'd focus my effort if I ended up in this situation - I'd try to save lives on the ground and give my fellow passengers enough time to make some phone calls.

Scott

View attachment 146427

Ah, the 747-400.

It's been 20 years since I flew that wonderful airplane - still remember every switch in the cockpit.

It's a great shot as well in this conversation - While landing gear handle, yoke, and throttles, are obvious - which buttons do you press to be able to talk on the radio? Which one is the autopilot? How do you direct the autopilot to maintain level flight? Or change heading? Or even change speed or altitude?

This last question is particularly germane - because the flight attendant on the Helios flight was unable to get the airplane to a lower altitude - even with an autopilot engaged. He couldn't figure it out.

He couldn't figure out the radio, either, despite his flight training. We only know about him because the two intercepting F-16s observed him in the cockpit. So, a person with flight training, on the flight deck of an airliner couldn't figure out the radio.

And that radio is key to the fantasy of "being talked down".

A trained pilot, particularly with some Boeing experience, would probably be able to figure it out enough to get the airplane under control - and that is the crux of the issue - we are talking about untrained people trying to figure this machine and this flight deck out.

Even if you could figure out the radio, and even if, by some miracle, you got a pilot qualified on that airplane to answer, they simply cannot impart enough understanding over the radio to manage everything that would need to be done to accomplish a safe landing - and by safe, I mean everyone lives.

 

[LDB]

That's not a yes, that's a one in a million chance, which isn't really a chance.

It's a yes. And it's a chance. Only zero is no chance. Somebody has to be the one to beat the odds. Might as well be me.

 

[Dave P.]

I can't even figure out how to turn the heat on in my wife's car. I'm thinking landing a passenger jet isn't going to end well with me at the controls.

 

[LDB]

If Kurt Russell can do it, I can do it.

 

[wwillson]

Ah, the 747-400.

It's been 20 years since I flew that wonderful airplane - still remember every switch in the cockpit.

It's a great shot as well in this conversation - While landing gear handle, yoke, and throttles, are obvious - which buttons do you press to be able to talk on the radio? Which one is the autopilot? How do you direct the autopilot to maintain level flight? Or change heading? Or even change speed or altitude?

This last question is particularly germane - because the flight attendant on the Helios flight was unable to get the airplane to a lower altitude - even with an autopilot engaged. He couldn't figure it out.

He couldn't figure out the radio, either, despite his flight training. We only know about him because the two intercepting F-16s observed him in the cockpit. So, a person with flight training, on the flight deck of an airliner couldn't figure out the radio.

And that radio is key to the fantasy of "being talked down".

A trained pilot, particularly with some Boeing experience, would probably be able to figure it out enough to get the airplane under control - and that is the crux of the issue - we are talking about untrained people trying to figure this machine and this flight deck out.

Even if you could figure out the radio, and even if, by some miracle, you got a pilot qualified on that airplane to answer, they simply cannot impart enough understanding over the radio to manage everything that would need to be done to accomplish a safe landing - and by safe, I mean everyone lives.

Exactly. As I said in my previous post, I knew what I wanted the airplane to do, I just didn't know how to make it do that. I know the controls on a Cessna or Piper, but not a 767. Even with all the instruction I've given and all the time I have in single engine land, It would have been a small miracle to land a 767 without the answer man sitting beside me. With the answer man in the right seat, which enabled the airplane to be set up correctly, I was able to land in perfect conditions. Maybe if we fly the sim again, we will see if I could land it with zero help, even with the familiarization I already have. Add in low ceilings, turbulence, wind, darkness, etc and the chance is low, very low.

 

[Zee09]

I can't even figure out how to turn the heat on in my wife's car. I'm thinking landing a passenger jet isn't going to end well with me at the controls.

Always a braggart in the crowd...

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

I've seen Airplane. If Ted Striker can, I can

 

[Revving2Redline]

All right let's have a little fun with this. I did play the Ace combat with the PlayStation VR and it was fun. I also scored pretty well on the super Nintendo version of pilot wings back in the early 90s. Now on to reality, my aunt and uncle in Alaska have a puddle jumper and I could probably fly that but there's two realities.. nobody in their right mind would get in an airplane with me and I don't want to risk the safety of other people by not having the proper training. I think it would be nice to know how to do just in case you needed to know how to do it but I highly doubt that that situation is going to come in front of me in anytime soon. I take enough heart medication and every other medication that I don't need to be that high off the ground with my blood pressure. If I was meant to fly then the almighty would have given me wings. Just like Clint Eastwood said on heartbreak ridge there's nothing natural about jumping out of a perfectly good airplane.