NASA can’t get two screws out…

Except for the contamination of the sample.

Look, this is an asteroid sample.

So, no solvents, no heat, no drilling or the hundreds of millions spent getting the sample is lost when the sample is contaminated.
I get that, but if lid could still be clamped shut, presumably any chips could be removed? I get it, now you have debris in a clean room but it seems like they could grind the screw heads away under a vacuum. I would assume that everything inside the cannister is behind some o-ring seal, still perfectly sealed away. Plus if they detect the screw material in the sample, they could overlook that (what are the odds of finding stainless steel or whatever alloy it is in deep space?).

I don't get a sense of time scale here, if they went to open it yesterday, found two stuck screws, then sat back and decided to call a team meeting about best path to proceed... lot of ado over nothing. It's not quite like finding a rusty bolt in the northeast, where 60 seconds later its torched off. Something like this, when some procedure does not go to plan, everything stops.

Makes me wonder what the implication here will be. Lessons learned. Most of NASA's stuff is one time use. Not sure how many missions have returned material like this. So what is the DFMEA going to be like, for review of future containers? no threaded retainers? must be easily fractured in one plane? Spring loaded clamps?
 
Not one of the respondents here has ever dealt with this problem. Not one.

Rusty brake bolts? Torch it? “Here’s what I would do” “This is simple”. 🤦‍♂️

Zero, and I mean zero, applicability to this situation. This is spaceflight. This is very high end science.

The assumptions made in this thread to hand-wave away the technical challenges and scientific requirements are laughable.

Like a kid with a sewing kit advising a vascular neurosurgeon.

Cute.

But not relevant.
 
Not one of the respondents here has ever dealt with this problem. Not one.

Rusty brake bolts? Torch it? “Here’s what I would do” “This is simple”. 🤦‍♂️

Zero, and I mean zero, applicability to this situation. This is spaceflight. This is very high end science.

The assumptions made in this thread to hand-wave away the technical challenges and scientific requirements are laughable.

Like a kid with a sewing kit advising a vascular neurosurgeon.

Cute.

But not relevant.

You're right of course. But I do wonder how much experience in the world "wrenching" would have played into this for the engineers. I'd never choose philips screws for anything, they are second to slot heads for the absolute worst choice of screw heads. Robertson, torx, hex, all of these are far better choices in harsh environments.

In my construction days we avoided philips like the plague. They are absolutely terrible at rounding out even when brand new, never mind with some good ole weathering going on.
 
Really unusual to have Philips screws on a one-off piece of Big Science equipment. They're almost always hex. Torx is now a consumer item. I would think that a siezed Torx screw would wring the head off before the slot stripped.

Also flat-heads aren't recommended for major fastenings. They're usually relegated to trim, heat shields, and other very light duty attachments.
 
While I use plenty of Philips at work, it's all non-vibration, non-mission critical stuff. Seems odd to use it here.

Hard to see what the head is:
1698524615739.jpg


But
1698524660638.jpg


It looks like it might be a "Mortorq".
1698524688551.jpg


Wikipedia would make this sound a correct application, or what we might expect to find here.
The Mortorq drive, developed by the Phillips Screw Company, is a format used in automotive[36] and aerospace applications. It is designed to be a lightweight, low-profile and high-strength drive, with full contact over the entire recess wing, reducing risk of stripping.[37] This low recess was able to create a shorter head height compared to other screws at the time of its development. This shorter head height was able to reduce the weight of this drive type. The Mortorq was originally designed for aerospace applications. This reduction of weight within the head height was able to create lighter assemblies for many aerospace projects. The materials used in aerospace applications are expensive, and the reduction of weight cuts down on the cost of production of these parts. This will allow thinner materials to be used for the screws. The shorter head height allows more "Clearance for internal parts and more design flexibility".[38] This allows the Mortorq drive to work in smaller and more complex builds.

Datasheet: https://www.phillips-screw.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/PSC-Data-Sheet-Mortorq.pdf
They sure make it sound good!
1698524939979.jpg

1698524971235.jpg


In case you want to volunteer to help, Amazon has a set, as does Snap-on.

Best I can tell, from a casual search, these scews/bolts appear to be custom made. As in, not finding in stock at Amazon/Ebay etc. But the tools are all over the place!

Anyhow. Seems dubious that it's "just a Philips" screw, it appears to have probably been selected for low weight and reduced cam-out issues.
 
While I use plenty of Philips at work, it's all non-vibration, non-mission critical stuff. Seems odd to use it here.

Hard to see what the head is

It looks like it might be a "Mortorq".

Best I can tell, from a casual search, these scews/bolts appear to be custom made. As in, not finding in stock at Amazon/Ebay etc. But the tools are all over the place!

Anyhow. Seems dubious that it's "just a Philips" screw, it appears to have probably been selected for low weight and reduced cam-out issues.

I found a higher resolution photo from another source prior to my earlier post, and they're definitely the Torq-set screws. OP gets the gold star.

But this situation may not be the best endorsement for them ;)
 
While I use plenty of Philips at work, it's all non-vibration, non-mission critical stuff. Seems odd to use it here.

Hard to see what the head is:
View attachment 185627

But
View attachment 185628

It looks like it might be a "Mortorq".
View attachment 185629

Wikipedia would make this sound a correct application, or what we might expect to find here.


Datasheet: https://www.phillips-screw.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/PSC-Data-Sheet-Mortorq.pdf
They sure make it sound good!
View attachment 185630
View attachment 185631

In case you want to volunteer to help, Amazon has a set, as does Snap-on.

Best I can tell, from a casual search, these scews/bolts appear to be custom made. As in, not finding in stock at Amazon/Ebay etc. But the tools are all over the place!

Anyhow. Seems dubious that it's "just a Philips" screw, it appears to have probably been selected for low weight and reduced cam-out issues.

I have no experience with the mortorq, but my 2 second gut feeling is that this would be even worse due to the shape. Driving them in would be great, lots of perpendicular angles for max contact, but when you're backing it out the other side of each tooth looks to be rounded and would probably make the driver slip out of the head very fast.
 
I wonder if the fasteners and lid ring are metallurgically compatible?

I hope they didn't weld themselves in the cold of space. 🥵
Could be cold welded! The screws could have had some oxide removed by the first few turns of the threads , and then it was really metal to metal, the cold of space fused the metal.
 
Could be cold welded! The screws could have had some oxide removed by the first few turns of the threads , and then it was really metal to metal, the cold of space fused the metal.
What is the mechanism behind cold welding? never been in space, nor a space buff, so I’ve not heard of this. Dissimilar metal reaction, yes, but not this.
 
Really unusual to have Philips screws on a one-off piece of Big Science equipment. They're almost always hex. Torx is now a consumer item. I would think that a siezed Torx screw would wring the head off before the slot stripped.

Also flat-heads aren't recommended for major fastenings. They're usually relegated to trim, heat shields, and other very light duty attachments.
Hex shapes attract aliens
 
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