NANKANG vs Mastercraft vs KINFOREST vs Mayrun

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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Why are you going for the cheapest possible tires?
All of these are going to be of unkown quality.


I find it funny that the OP, a driver of a "premium" car, is trying to cheap so far out on tires.


Well he's noted that the vehicle isn't actually his but that of an acquaintance.

Still though, no Chinese rubber for me, that's for sure. Particularly when you can get a brand-name tire for not much more.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Why are you going for the cheapest possible tires?
All of these are going to be of unkown quality.


I find it funny that the OP, a driver of a "premium" car, is trying to cheap so far out on tires.


Well he's noted that the vehicle isn't actually his but that of an acquaintance.

Still though, no Chinese rubber for me, that's for sure. Particularly when you can get a brand-name tire for not much more.

When my dad was teaching me how to drive (and he was rally driver) he told me one thing that I still religiously stick to:
Never save on tires, brakes and steering components!
 
It sounds like the OP bought tires already, but if it's not too late to change plans, consider the Cooper CS5 Ultra Touring from the 4th of July sale at DTD. With three rebates---you have to apply for and use the DTD credit card, but they approved me so you should be good to go---a set of four costs $310, shipping included, in 215/50R17 XL 95V. (580 AA)

See: http://is.gd/6J1jiC

You can't beat getting four quality tires in that size and speed rating installed for less than $400.
 
Guys... we're doing this all wrong. We need to *expand* our knowledge of the tires out there, and not just stay with what we think is a safe bet.

We need someone to buy, mount, and use a set of Maylast tires, and someone else to do the same with a set of Kinforage tires... that way we're expanding our knowledge base.

I went from Michelin LTX's to a set of Discoverer CTS's, as not a lot was known about the CTS... and can tell you that I never realized that the wet and snow traction of the LTX was that bad. I should have taken those miserable tires off some time ago.

So... who is going to try the Mayskid tires first?
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I see a ton of cars with the Chinese knockoff tires ... they must be doing something right.


Yeah, they are providing something that looks like a tire at dirt cheap prices. It doesn't make them good, it doesn't even make them a good value. But they are certainly able to capitalize on the "I will buy the cheapest piece of [censored] possible" mentality that seems prevalent in North America
smirk.gif



Actually, I see many used by people who DEMAND value: commercial trucks! A local outfit uses Roadmaster & Westlake tires...you may have heard of them, they go by "Budweiser"!


So because they are Budweiser, that makes their use of sub-par Chinese tires by Westlake bright? As noted, the Roadmaster tires are a Cooper product.

Perhaps they are part of the reason many innocent people in passenger cars are faced with massive damage caused by truck tire carcasses?

Just because something is inexpensive doesn't make it a good value. And just because Budweiser uses something doesn't mean that they aren't doing so solely because they get them for rock-bottom prices. The guys making the purchasing decisions aren't the guys driving the trucks. It isn't their lives riding on those tires.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Perhaps they are part of the reason many innocent people in passenger cars are faced with massive damage caused by truck tire carcasses?

Just because something is inexpensive doesn't make it a good value. And just because Budweiser uses something doesn't mean that they aren't doing so solely because they get them for rock-bottom prices. The guys making the purchasing decisions aren't the guys driving the trucks. It isn't their lives riding on those tires.


Which brings up the question of cheaper (Chinese made) virgin tires versus retreads...?
 
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Perhaps they are part of the reason many innocent people in passenger cars are faced with massive damage caused by truck tire carcasses?

Just because something is inexpensive doesn't make it a good value. And just because Budweiser uses something doesn't mean that they aren't doing so solely because they get them for rock-bottom prices. The guys making the purchasing decisions aren't the guys driving the trucks. It isn't their lives riding on those tires.


Which brings up the question of cheaper (Chinese made) virgin tires versus retreads...?

My friend owns trucking company (small business like 10-15 semi's).
I was talking to him about tires, and they always buy retreads from Michelin, but front tires he says they are always new, not retreads.
Since Michelin is extremely expensive, they stick to Firestone or Cooper. I think he would seriously laugh at Budwiser's decision considering he knows each driver and their families.
But then again, as I said, quality of tires on their trucks is comparable to their beer!
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Perhaps they are part of the reason many innocent people in passenger cars are faced with massive damage caused by truck tire carcasses?

Just because something is inexpensive doesn't make it a good value. And just because Budweiser uses something doesn't mean that they aren't doing so solely because they get them for rock-bottom prices. The guys making the purchasing decisions aren't the guys driving the trucks. It isn't their lives riding on those tires.


Which brings up the question of cheaper (Chinese made) virgin tires versus retreads...?


Yup, it does
smile.gif
And like with the virgin/new tires, I think who is making the retread likely plays a big role. IE, a Michelin or Goodyear retread is probably better than a new Chinese tire but perhaps a low-tier retread may be a poorer product than a new Chinese tire
21.gif


I'm sure there's been a study of some sort done on this.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Perhaps they are part of the reason many innocent people in passenger cars are faced with massive damage caused by truck tire carcasses?

Just because something is inexpensive doesn't make it a good value. And just because Budweiser uses something doesn't mean that they aren't doing so solely because they get them for rock-bottom prices. The guys making the purchasing decisions aren't the guys driving the trucks. It isn't their lives riding on those tires.


Which brings up the question of cheaper (Chinese made) virgin tires versus retreads...?


Yup, it does
smile.gif
And like with the virgin/new tires, I think who is making the retread likely plays a big role. IE, a Michelin or Goodyear retread is probably better than a new Chinese tire but perhaps a low-tier retread may be a poorer product than a new Chinese tire
21.gif


I'm sure there's been a study of some sort done on this.

I was at an airshow recently and got a good look at the tires on a KC-10. It was a whole bunch of mismatched tires and some retreads. I recognized all the names though. It was odd seeing the Michelin label on the cap over a Bridgestone carcass. Of course I'm thinking the standards for an aircraft retread is much, much higher.
 
Originally Posted By: ram_man
You get what you pay for. Tires is not something to go cheap on in my opinion.

There is a matter of diminishing returns, especially with a vehicle that isn't driven that much. My parents don't need the absolute best performance tires nor the most expensive touring tires.

I remember I got a pair of Falkens for less than $50 each for my wife's Civic. In that size it was a whole bunch of tires in a similar price range, then Michelin Defenders for $100 each.
 
Truck tires (retread or otherwise) will come apart when they are run low on air, heat up and throw the tread. ANY truck tire will throw it's tread - retreads actually throw their treads less in these cases.

It's super easy for a truck driver to do, too. Especially with all of the "Do you have a heart beat - you can drive a truck!!" places that are putting people that don't have any business behind the wheel of a compact car in a truck.

When my father was a truck driver, nearly all trailers he took had more than one tire that would leak. If you weren't paying attention, it's quite easy to end up missing one.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I see a ton of cars with the Chinese knockoff tires ... they must be doing something right.


Yeah, they are providing something that looks like a tire at dirt cheap prices. It doesn't make them good, it doesn't even make them a good value. But they are certainly able to capitalize on the "I will buy the cheapest piece of [censored] possible" mentality that seems prevalent in North America
smirk.gif



Actually, I see many used by people who DEMAND value: commercial trucks! A local outfit uses Roadmaster & Westlake tires...you may have heard of them, they go by "Budweiser"!


So because they are Budweiser, that makes their use of sub-par Chinese tires by Westlake bright? As noted, the Roadmaster tires are a Cooper product.

Perhaps they are part of the reason many innocent people in passenger cars are faced with massive damage caused by truck tire carcasses?

Just because something is inexpensive doesn't make it a good value. And just because Budweiser uses something doesn't mean that they aren't doing so solely because they get them for rock-bottom prices. The guys making the purchasing decisions aren't the guys driving the trucks. It isn't their lives riding on those tires.


If they weren't a good value, a fleet would not use them.

Please describe, in detail, your experience with Westlake tires. Be specific.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Yeah, they are providing something that looks like a tire at dirt cheap prices. It doesn't make them good, it doesn't even make them a good value. But they are certainly able to capitalize on the "I will buy the cheapest piece of [censored] possible" mentality that seems prevalent in North America
smirk.gif



Actually, I see many used by people who DEMAND value: commercial trucks! A local outfit uses Roadmaster & Westlake tires...you may have heard of them, they go by "Budweiser"!


So because they are Budweiser, that makes their use of sub-par Chinese tires by Westlake bright? As noted, the Roadmaster tires are a Cooper product.

Perhaps they are part of the reason many innocent people in passenger cars are faced with massive damage caused by truck tire carcasses?

Just because something is inexpensive doesn't make it a good value. And just because Budweiser uses something doesn't mean that they aren't doing so solely because they get them for rock-bottom prices. The guys making the purchasing decisions aren't the guys driving the trucks. It isn't their lives riding on those tires.


If they weren't a good value, a fleet would not use them.

Please describe, in detail, your experience with Westlake tires. Be specific.


My friends experience is this: They are smooth, do well in the rain and hold up to highway travel. IE - he drives 80MPH for 2 or 3 hours on end on trips, on the hot asphault.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Why are you going for the cheapest possible tires?
All of these are going to be of unkown quality.
Why not consider a lower-tier name brand?
General, Cooper, Hankook and Kumho all offer some inexpesive tires that hold up pretty well.
If you must have a low-end tire, I'd price Primewells.
These have come new on a couple of used cars we've bought and while I wouldn't go out and buy a set, they're not bad.
Walmart also has the Goodyear Integrity at rock-bottom prices, but I'm not sure they'd be available in your size.


+1!
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle

If they weren't a good value, a fleet would not use them.


If they are getting Westlake tires for 1/3 the price of Michelin and they last 1/2 as long, on paper, they are less expensive. On paper, they look like a better value. But if they are more prone to air-outs, leaks, delaminations.....etc, despite what the numbers say, they are putting the lives of everybody operating a motor vehicle in the vicinity of that truck at higher risk. That negates the value part and just means they got away with running cheap tires because the bean counters say so.

Quote:
Please describe, in detail, your experience with Westlake tires. Be specific.


Why would I use a Chinese tire like Westlake? I am not a person who puts the lives of my family members at risk over the cost of the rubber on my vehicle. If that's how you roll, well then I guess that's your choice then isn't it? I on the other hand will continue to buy the best tires I can afford.

I'll leave you with the CTV advisory for Westlake tires however:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/tires-recalled-in-u-s-still-sold-in-canada-1.246732

Quote:
The Chinese plant that manufactures the tires has been accused of neglecting gum strips -- the material that helps hold the belts of tires together.


And a few other links:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/feds-order-at-least-4-tire-brands-recalled/


Note that the company that actually manufactured the tires didn't recall them. When Goodyear/Michelin/Cooper....etc discover they've screwed up, they recall a product. In this case it is the Government having to do it because the guy selling you the dirt cheap fresh off the boat tires doesn't have the resources to actually perform a recall, let alone inspect the product he's selling you. And the company that makes them doesn't care.

Quote:
The head of the federal National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) told a Senate committee last month that federal safety regulations are not adequate to deal with motor vehicle equipment importers refusing to recall defective products.

Tires made by Hangzhou Zhongce were imported to the U.S. by Foreign Tire Sales but the New Jersey company says it is unable to conduct a thorough recall because of a lack of money.


There is no responsibility or accountability here. That is a HUGE issue. Just like with the poison pet food, lead paint on children's toys, melamine tainted milk products....etc, there is so much RISK associated with using Chinese-sourced products, but you continue to see these things because it is hard to turn down the idea of padding your bottom-line when given the opportunity.

Companies that are successful in utilizing inexpensive Chinese labour for manufacture have gone to GREAT expense to ensure consistent quality control with multiple checks in place. Companies like Apple and Cisco, both of which have been using Chinese labour for quite some time are responsible corporate entities that can be held accountable for the quality and performance of their products. Their products are not brokered through some fly-by-night sales operation looking to undercut everybody in the business with no regard for what they are selling, which is exactly what happened with the Westlake tire situation.
 
The company that always has commercial's during the Super Bowl about patriotism etc, is using Chinese tires that are not safe? Cannot believe it
sleep.gif
 
If you think only Chinese companies sweep problems under the rug, you are dreaming. Goodyear has done it, and Michelin has CERTAINLY done it! many of the China tires are fine...we even have some at work that Bandag & Oliver have capped.

Also note: new school buses are being shipped with Chinese tires (Doublecoin) right now!
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
If you think only Chinese companies sweep problems under the rug, you are dreaming. Goodyear has done it, and Michelin has CERTAINLY done it! many of the China tires are fine...we even have some at work that Bandag & Oliver have capped.

Also note: new school buses are being shipped with Chinese tires (Doublecoin) right now!


It isn't about sweeping problems under the rug (which wasn't the case here), it is about accountability and the ability to do things like recalls.

All of the well-known tire brands, have, at some point in time (some even recently, like Michelin) recalled a tire or tires for a defect. Note that this is the MANUFACTURER of the tires performing the recall, NOT the distributor.

What happened with Westlake was that there was a defect that the company quite obviously didn't report or discover through either negligence or improper QC. The company didn't issue a recall. The company, which is not a global operation with offices in major countries in fact didn't do anything. Because the company's products are brokered through some small chains, it was THOSE CHAINS that were liable for recalling the product that THEY SOLD, and they DO NOT have the resources to:

A. Check the product they are selling for quality and consistency
B. Recall a product that they've determined to be defective after the fact

This is why the government had to step in.

There's no recourse through the manufacturer nor through the distributor. With a company like Goodyear, there is. But with a company like Goodyear, they are going to recall their own products! Which is exactly what happens.

Let me see if I can make another example here:

Say we have two jacks:

Jack A is a Stanley, which the parent company is actually manufacturing in China

Jack B is a WestCreek, distributed through a local Dollar-Mart chain who brokers the products.

Now, both jacks are discovered to have a serious safety flaw! They will randomly collapse. Now, we know that we are ALWAYS supposed to use Jack Stands but we also know there are many that don't.

Stanley discovers this issue and puts out a nation-wide recall for their products. Jack unfortunately got crushed by his NOVA and his family has sued Stanley, the manufacturer, for 10 million dollars. Money they will receive.

Bill is not so lucky. He gets crushed by his Chevelle. So does Jim. And Pete and Martin and....etc. It becomes apparent that there is a serious safety issue with the WestCreek jack at this point and the small chain that sells it performs a cease-sale but cannot recall the products, they lack the resources! And the families of those crushed by the jack will sue Dollar-Mart, but they will quickly bankrupt the company, which doesn't have much in the way of assets and ultimately receive nothing but their legal fees. Meanwhile, there are still those defective jacks out there somewhere.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Jarlaxle said:
Companies that are successful in utilizing inexpensive Chinese labour for manufacture have gone to GREAT expense to ensure consistent quality control with multiple checks in place. Companies like Apple and Cisco, both of which have been using Chinese labour for quite some time are responsible corporate entities that can be held accountable for the quality and performance of their products. Their products are not brokered through some fly-by-night sales operation looking to undercut everybody in the business with no regard for what they are selling, which is exactly what happened with the Westlake tire situation.

Companies like Apple aren't going to China because the labor is that much cheaper. Labor is a small part of the cost. They're going to China because those factories are run by Foxconn, Quanta, and Asus. Their ability to manufacture on-time and on-budget is why. Those contractors run an extremely tight ship. If you custom order something from Apple, there's a good chance it comes shipped straight from China.
 
Originally Posted By: y_p_w

Companies like Apple aren't going to China because the labor is that much cheaper. Labor is a small part of the cost. They're going to China because those factories are run by Foxconn, Quanta, and Asus. Their ability to manufacture on-time and on-budget is why. Those contractors run an extremely tight ship. If you custom order something from Apple, there's a good chance it comes shipped straight from China.


The cost of manufacture is cheaper. Labour is part of that and why these Taiwanese companies (Foxconn, ASUS, Quanta...etc) have setup massive manufacturing facilities in China. Cheap labour and its abundance is why these companies are there. So while perhaps labour costs were not the direct driver for Apple having its gear manufactured in China, it was certainly one of the primary reasons Foxconn located facilities there and subsequently netted Apple as a customer.

Of course we are speaking specifically about companies that contract out production here like Apple. The other side of that are companies that built manufacturing facilities for their products there and I would argue that cheap labour is one of the primary drivers behind that decision.

smile.gif
 
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