Michelin Brand Warrenty MEANINGLESS!
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Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: supton
Sounds like buying cheap tires makes sense. I read the other thread, so I understand it's not the op's car. Seems odd to use cheap tires tho. But it may be a decent move, esp for a car which may age out tires anyhow.
That tread wear tho seems like it was ran under inflated. That would not have helped any predisposition to cracking.
I've never had cheap tires on a car. Or at the very least never some funky brand like Prime Well. I got some Falken tires for my wife's car at an extremely low price, but I consider them to be reputable since they're owned by Sumitomo.
I frankly see a lot of luxury and expensive high performance cars with these oddball branded tires here. I mean - someone spent upwards of six figures for a vehicle and then cheaps out on the tires? I suppose the status for them is the vehicle, and they don't think anyone will think they're cheap because they had some cheapie tires installed.
There are a lot of 10 year old Benz, BMWs around here riding around on PrimeWell and Crosswind tires. But ... I know a few people that run them and they never have any problems.
Originally Posted By: supton
Sounds like buying cheap tires makes sense. I read the other thread, so I understand it's not the op's car. Seems odd to use cheap tires tho. But it may be a decent move, esp for a car which may age out tires anyhow.
That tread wear tho seems like it was ran under inflated. That would not have helped any predisposition to cracking.
I've never had cheap tires on a car. Or at the very least never some funky brand like Prime Well. I got some Falken tires for my wife's car at an extremely low price, but I consider them to be reputable since they're owned by Sumitomo.
I frankly see a lot of luxury and expensive high performance cars with these oddball branded tires here. I mean - someone spent upwards of six figures for a vehicle and then cheaps out on the tires? I suppose the status for them is the vehicle, and they don't think anyone will think they're cheap because they had some cheapie tires installed.
There are a lot of 10 year old Benz, BMWs around here riding around on PrimeWell and Crosswind tires. But ... I know a few people that run them and they never have any problems.
Michelin treated you more than fairly. What were you expecting? A brand new set of tires free of charge?
So, to recap:
1. You had a weird defect in a tire that is easily attributable to abuse.
2. You tried to call in the warranty at stores and the stores didn't serve you.
3. Michelin responded per the terms of the warranty.
4. You didn't like the remedy so they gave you an avenue to air your grievance, but you didn't like that either.
5. The fact that they don't want to see the tire worries you.
6. Based on the above, you decided to take your money elsewhere.
Sounds like you just didn't feel the tire was worth your money. I think that's a bit of an overreaction, but fair enough. That's a different thing from claiming that the warranty is meaningless, wouldn't you say?
1. You had a weird defect in a tire that is easily attributable to abuse.
2. You tried to call in the warranty at stores and the stores didn't serve you.
3. Michelin responded per the terms of the warranty.
4. You didn't like the remedy so they gave you an avenue to air your grievance, but you didn't like that either.
5. The fact that they don't want to see the tire worries you.
6. Based on the above, you decided to take your money elsewhere.
Sounds like you just didn't feel the tire was worth your money. I think that's a bit of an overreaction, but fair enough. That's a different thing from claiming that the warranty is meaningless, wouldn't you say?
- That tire looks MUCH older than Nov 2010..emphasis on much. Was it actually mounted on a car or just left face-up in the Sun?
- Your photo shows the inside of the tire, that faces away from the Sun. If it looks that bad, the outside must look much worse.
- Under-inflation causes tire temp to rise as the rolling resistance really drops...leading to over-heating.
- Who-ever your friend is, they need an alignment, need to keep an eye on tire pressure, and should shop around for a better price. Further, a little tire-prep/month would go a long way to promoting longevity.
- I've used Michelins for decades...in Texas...where it's hotter than Florida and none of my tires has ever looked that bad and they're older than that.
- The saying "You can pay me now or you can pay me later" comes to mind...
- The Michelin rep offered you a Pilot HX for $96/tire? And you turned him down? I wish I could get that price.
- Is this Carnoobie?
The prorate policy is typical, and the installation charges not included is typical as well. You can probably ask them to prorate the installation charges but that's about it.
The problem is really Michelin being overpriced in your opinion, and you want to switch to another brand. I think most brands won't do that.
The problem is really Michelin being overpriced in your opinion, and you want to switch to another brand. I think most brands won't do that.
ya whats the date code?
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: supton
Sounds like buying cheap tires makes sense. I read the other thread, so I understand it's not the op's car. Seems odd to use cheap tires tho. But it may be a decent move, esp for a car which may age out tires anyhow.
That tread wear tho seems like it was ran under inflated. That would not have helped any predisposition to cracking.
I've never had cheap tires on a car. Or at the very least never some funky brand like Prime Well. I got some Falken tires for my wife's car at an extremely low price, but I consider them to be reputable since they're owned by Sumitomo.
I frankly see a lot of luxury and expensive high performance cars with these oddball branded tires here. I mean - someone spent upwards of six figures for a vehicle and then cheaps out on the tires? I suppose the status for them is the vehicle, and they don't think anyone will think they're cheap because they had some cheapie tires installed.
There are a lot of 10 year old Benz, BMWs around here riding around on PrimeWell and Crosswind tires. But ... I know a few people that run them and they never have any problems.
However, the drivers seem to be image conscious. I only see a small fraction of these vehicles being driven anywhere near their performance capability. More than likely I'd see someone in a Mercedes S-Class driving under the speed limit like an 80 year old grandma.
I mean - it almost seems like some rich person showing off status at a fancy gym, but then doing so wearing a pair of shoes from Payless Shoe Source. They've got all the trappings of being well off, like fancy clothes and designer luggage, but then choose the cheapest possible tires. It's not that I'd think the majority of drivers will have an issue with the reliability or performance, but that someone image-conscious driving a luxury vehicle isn't going to want to give off the vibe of being cheap.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: supton
Sounds like buying cheap tires makes sense. I read the other thread, so I understand it's not the op's car. Seems odd to use cheap tires tho. But it may be a decent move, esp for a car which may age out tires anyhow.
That tread wear tho seems like it was ran under inflated. That would not have helped any predisposition to cracking.
I've never had cheap tires on a car. Or at the very least never some funky brand like Prime Well. I got some Falken tires for my wife's car at an extremely low price, but I consider them to be reputable since they're owned by Sumitomo.
I frankly see a lot of luxury and expensive high performance cars with these oddball branded tires here. I mean - someone spent upwards of six figures for a vehicle and then cheaps out on the tires? I suppose the status for them is the vehicle, and they don't think anyone will think they're cheap because they had some cheapie tires installed.
There are a lot of 10 year old Benz, BMWs around here riding around on PrimeWell and Crosswind tires. But ... I know a few people that run them and they never have any problems.
However, the drivers seem to be image conscious. I only see a small fraction of these vehicles being driven anywhere near their performance capability. More than likely I'd see someone in a Mercedes S-Class driving under the speed limit like an 80 year old grandma.
I mean - it almost seems like some rich person showing off status at a fancy gym, but then doing so wearing a pair of shoes from Payless Shoe Source. They've got all the trappings of being well off, like fancy clothes and designer luggage, but then choose the cheapest possible tires. It's not that I'd think the majority of drivers will have an issue with the reliability or performance, but that someone image-conscious driving a luxury vehicle isn't going to want to give off the vibe of being cheap.
Originally Posted By: Kool1
I've used Michelin tires for almost 35 years and have never seen them crack like that. YIKES!
Those look BETTER than the tires two guys I work with had to throw away. As I expected, Michelin refused to lift a finger for either of them, instead accusing them (and it WAS an accusation!) of using "unapproved" tire dressings.
I will run 4 different brands of used Chinese tires before I will give ONE CENT to Michelin under any circumstances!
I've used Michelin tires for almost 35 years and have never seen them crack like that. YIKES!
Those look BETTER than the tires two guys I work with had to throw away. As I expected, Michelin refused to lift a finger for either of them, instead accusing them (and it WAS an accusation!) of using "unapproved" tire dressings.
I will run 4 different brands of used Chinese tires before I will give ONE CENT to Michelin under any circumstances!
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
I thought the pro-rated credit was a good deal.
Sounds like your tire store guy was trying to take care of you.
Good luck getting 50,000 miles out of the Mastercrafts.
The Avenger GT's on my mother's Sable had about half the tread remaining with ~35,000 miles.
I thought the pro-rated credit was a good deal.
Sounds like your tire store guy was trying to take care of you.
Good luck getting 50,000 miles out of the Mastercrafts.
The Avenger GT's on my mother's Sable had about half the tread remaining with ~35,000 miles.
Yokohama tires are my # 1 choice for a mid ranged quality tire.
I just want to comment on the concept of "Authorized Dealer".
Disclaimer - I am not a lawyer. I am sure there are interesting twists and quirks I am going to gloss over. If an attorney wants to help fill in the gaps - or correct some misconception on my part, please do so.
Taking automobiles as an example, the manufacturer gives the dealer the right to buy vehicles, and with that right comes certain responsibilities - like having a service department equipped with certain tools. The vehicle manufacturer has the right to pull the franchise agreement if these conditions are not met. It a stick and carrot approach that can work beautifully. But it can also work very poorly. Both parties have to want to make it work.
But pretty much every other product is handled differently - including tires. While people use the phrase "Authorized Dealer", it has very little real meaning in the tire world. ANY tire dealer can sell ANY brand of tires. All he has to do is buy them from the distributor.
What comes along with this is that some tire dealers don't like to do warranty work. They say it is not cost effective ...... that the tire manufacturer doesn't always honor the warranty ..... that the tire dealer doesn't get anything out of the exchange. I completely disagree. I think a tire dealer doing warranty work has an opportunity to show his commitment to customer service in a very positive way. He could make a customer for life if he handles it correctly.
The tire manufacturer can be persuaded to give a little if the tire dealer is willing to bend a little. It's a 2 way street, one where everyone can win.
Disclaimer - I am not a lawyer. I am sure there are interesting twists and quirks I am going to gloss over. If an attorney wants to help fill in the gaps - or correct some misconception on my part, please do so.
Taking automobiles as an example, the manufacturer gives the dealer the right to buy vehicles, and with that right comes certain responsibilities - like having a service department equipped with certain tools. The vehicle manufacturer has the right to pull the franchise agreement if these conditions are not met. It a stick and carrot approach that can work beautifully. But it can also work very poorly. Both parties have to want to make it work.
But pretty much every other product is handled differently - including tires. While people use the phrase "Authorized Dealer", it has very little real meaning in the tire world. ANY tire dealer can sell ANY brand of tires. All he has to do is buy them from the distributor.
What comes along with this is that some tire dealers don't like to do warranty work. They say it is not cost effective ...... that the tire manufacturer doesn't always honor the warranty ..... that the tire dealer doesn't get anything out of the exchange. I completely disagree. I think a tire dealer doing warranty work has an opportunity to show his commitment to customer service in a very positive way. He could make a customer for life if he handles it correctly.
The tire manufacturer can be persuaded to give a little if the tire dealer is willing to bend a little. It's a 2 way street, one where everyone can win.
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Originally Posted By: oldoak2000
Look to me like it was run underpressure for long time to heat-up the sidewalls like that. Surprised they didn't blow out sooner.
Lasted 3.5 years and 27k of mistreatment. good tire.
"since I don't own the car and don't know how it is driven" - How is it that Michelin owe's you anything other than the time of day ? Sounds to me like Michelin being pretty generous offering you 1/2 proration for tires you didn't pay for and don't know anything about.
I guess I didn't go into the back story in this post. This car belongs to a family member and if any money came from Michelin, it would have been to given to them. It wasn't like I bought a car with bad tires and then tried to get money. As far as the under-inflation goes, I doubt it was under inflated. I would periodically check the tire pressure when I do oil changes, and I saw receipts for other oil changes and warranty recall work in the glove compartment. This family member keeps everything, even have the original window sticker from when she bought the car 10 years ago.
Oh and I should mention, when I got the front tires replaced the day before I found out about the back tires, the form they gave me said the tire pressure on the back ones were good (32 psi).
Look to me like it was run underpressure for long time to heat-up the sidewalls like that. Surprised they didn't blow out sooner.
Lasted 3.5 years and 27k of mistreatment. good tire.
"since I don't own the car and don't know how it is driven" - How is it that Michelin owe's you anything other than the time of day ? Sounds to me like Michelin being pretty generous offering you 1/2 proration for tires you didn't pay for and don't know anything about.
I guess I didn't go into the back story in this post. This car belongs to a family member and if any money came from Michelin, it would have been to given to them. It wasn't like I bought a car with bad tires and then tried to get money. As far as the under-inflation goes, I doubt it was under inflated. I would periodically check the tire pressure when I do oil changes, and I saw receipts for other oil changes and warranty recall work in the glove compartment. This family member keeps everything, even have the original window sticker from when she bought the car 10 years ago.
Oh and I should mention, when I got the front tires replaced the day before I found out about the back tires, the form they gave me said the tire pressure on the back ones were good (32 psi).
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Originally Posted By: Nate1979
I'm not sure I am understanding the point of the OP. Are you saying they are not following the terms of their warranty or that you don't like the terms of the warranty? As far as I can see they are following the terms of the warranty.
I guess my point was at I had assumed the benefits of buying " premium" brand tires was that they would be free of defects and if said defects were discovered, they would go far beyond just prorating for another tire of the same exact type. Even no name brands have prorated warren ties, heck even exclusively made for walmart tires have prorated warranties. Also, I wasn't asking for a complete tire replacement for free. I was merely asking for that prorated amount in cash since I wanted to go with another tire brand.
I'm not sure I am understanding the point of the OP. Are you saying they are not following the terms of their warranty or that you don't like the terms of the warranty? As far as I can see they are following the terms of the warranty.
I guess my point was at I had assumed the benefits of buying " premium" brand tires was that they would be free of defects and if said defects were discovered, they would go far beyond just prorating for another tire of the same exact type. Even no name brands have prorated warren ties, heck even exclusively made for walmart tires have prorated warranties. Also, I wasn't asking for a complete tire replacement for free. I was merely asking for that prorated amount in cash since I wanted to go with another tire brand.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
nothing but praise here for Michelin. I buy several sets each year and they tend to perform flawlessly for us.
The OP's photo suggests severe under inflation, not a warranted issue.
Looks like premature wear on the shoulder, and down to the wear bars. I can't think of any tire seller that will warranty a tire with tread down to the wear bars. One look at that and it's pretty obvious that it wasn't properly maintained.
I'm not sure how you got premature wear on the shoulder? Is it the white stuff in the pictures? I think that is from when I flipped the tires over to show the both the tech at SAMs and at Sears and it was laying on the white concrete, The treads were pretty good, I think she still has the tires in her garage and will see if I can get some more pictures.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
nothing but praise here for Michelin. I buy several sets each year and they tend to perform flawlessly for us.
The OP's photo suggests severe under inflation, not a warranted issue.
Looks like premature wear on the shoulder, and down to the wear bars. I can't think of any tire seller that will warranty a tire with tread down to the wear bars. One look at that and it's pretty obvious that it wasn't properly maintained.
I'm not sure how you got premature wear on the shoulder? Is it the white stuff in the pictures? I think that is from when I flipped the tires over to show the both the tech at SAMs and at Sears and it was laying on the white concrete, The treads were pretty good, I think she still has the tires in her garage and will see if I can get some more pictures.
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OP, if you look at the pictures, you can see that tire wear on the shoulder is almost down to the base rubber (or "bald").
Regardless of all of that...when you get down to brass tacks, you have a 50,000 mile tire that you (or your friend) received 27,000 miles of service from. Michelin is offering you a new tire at right at half the cost of a new one, which is how pro-rated tire warranties work. The "free replacement" period of almost every tire warranty ends at 12 months or 2/32" of tread wear. It doesn't matter if this tire is a Michelin, a Goodyear, a Bridgestone, or a Mastercraft...if that tire needs replacing due to a defect after you've gotten half of the life out of it, the manufacturer will offer you half off a new tire (which Michelin did here).
I don't know if you expected a free replacement here. If so, I don't think you'll find satisfaction with any tire warranty. That's just not how they work.
Either way, I do sincerely believe, based on the pictures and based on your description of the tires having 6/32" of tread somewhere on them, that the car has a severe alignment problem or the tires were severely under-inflated. If you regularly checked inflation and it was good, then there has to be a mechanical problem with the car for the tires to wear like that.
Regardless of all of that...when you get down to brass tacks, you have a 50,000 mile tire that you (or your friend) received 27,000 miles of service from. Michelin is offering you a new tire at right at half the cost of a new one, which is how pro-rated tire warranties work. The "free replacement" period of almost every tire warranty ends at 12 months or 2/32" of tread wear. It doesn't matter if this tire is a Michelin, a Goodyear, a Bridgestone, or a Mastercraft...if that tire needs replacing due to a defect after you've gotten half of the life out of it, the manufacturer will offer you half off a new tire (which Michelin did here).
I don't know if you expected a free replacement here. If so, I don't think you'll find satisfaction with any tire warranty. That's just not how they work.
Either way, I do sincerely believe, based on the pictures and based on your description of the tires having 6/32" of tread somewhere on them, that the car has a severe alignment problem or the tires were severely under-inflated. If you regularly checked inflation and it was good, then there has to be a mechanical problem with the car for the tires to wear like that.
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
I just want to comment on the concept of "Authorized Dealer".
Disclaimer - I am not a lawyer. I am sure there are interesting twists and quirks I am going to gloss over. If an attorney wants to help fill in the gaps - or correct some misconception on my part, please do so.
Taking automobiles as an example, the manufacturer gives the dealer the right to buy vehicles, and with that right comes certain responsibilities - like having a service department equipped with certain tools. The vehicle manufacturer has the right to pull the franchise agreement if these conditions are not met. It a stick and carrot approach that can work beautifully. But it can also work very poorly. Both parties have to want to make it work.
But pretty much every other product is handled differently - including tires. While people use the phrase "Authorized Dealer", it has very little real meaning in the tire world. ANY tire dealer can sell ANY brand of tires. All he has to do is buy them from the distributor.
What comes along with this is that some tire dealers don't like to do warranty work. They say it is not cost effective ...... that the tire manufacturer doesn't always honor the warranty ..... that the tire dealer doesn't get anything out of the exchange. I completely disagree. I think a tire dealer doing warranty work has an opportunity to show his commitment to customer service in a very positive way. He could make a customer for life if he handles it correctly.
The tire manufacturer can be persuaded to give a little if the tire dealer is willing to bend a little. It's a 2 way street, one where everyone can win.
Thanks for posting this explanation very informative especially regarding warranty service.
And to be clear, my comment about Sam's was base entirely on what the OP said this Sam's response was and that Michelin told him to go to Sears. I have no idea if the OP mentioned that he purchased them at Sam's when he called Michelin or not. It seemed implied based on Michelin's recommendation that Sam's was not "authorized", whatever that meant. Perhaps Sam's looked at the tires and agreed with all the comments posted on this thread and thus said, nothing they can do. But my comments were based on the OP's explanation.
Fwiw, I completely agree with CR, warranty work is a chance to develop goodwill and bring in return business. DT has done that for me many times, for that service and complete experience of going out of their way they have won my tire business.
I just want to comment on the concept of "Authorized Dealer".
Disclaimer - I am not a lawyer. I am sure there are interesting twists and quirks I am going to gloss over. If an attorney wants to help fill in the gaps - or correct some misconception on my part, please do so.
Taking automobiles as an example, the manufacturer gives the dealer the right to buy vehicles, and with that right comes certain responsibilities - like having a service department equipped with certain tools. The vehicle manufacturer has the right to pull the franchise agreement if these conditions are not met. It a stick and carrot approach that can work beautifully. But it can also work very poorly. Both parties have to want to make it work.
But pretty much every other product is handled differently - including tires. While people use the phrase "Authorized Dealer", it has very little real meaning in the tire world. ANY tire dealer can sell ANY brand of tires. All he has to do is buy them from the distributor.
What comes along with this is that some tire dealers don't like to do warranty work. They say it is not cost effective ...... that the tire manufacturer doesn't always honor the warranty ..... that the tire dealer doesn't get anything out of the exchange. I completely disagree. I think a tire dealer doing warranty work has an opportunity to show his commitment to customer service in a very positive way. He could make a customer for life if he handles it correctly.
The tire manufacturer can be persuaded to give a little if the tire dealer is willing to bend a little. It's a 2 way street, one where everyone can win.
Thanks for posting this explanation very informative especially regarding warranty service.
And to be clear, my comment about Sam's was base entirely on what the OP said this Sam's response was and that Michelin told him to go to Sears. I have no idea if the OP mentioned that he purchased them at Sam's when he called Michelin or not. It seemed implied based on Michelin's recommendation that Sam's was not "authorized", whatever that meant. Perhaps Sam's looked at the tires and agreed with all the comments posted on this thread and thus said, nothing they can do. But my comments were based on the OP's explanation.
Fwiw, I completely agree with CR, warranty work is a chance to develop goodwill and bring in return business. DT has done that for me many times, for that service and complete experience of going out of their way they have won my tire business.
Originally Posted By: Hollow
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I will run 4 different brands of used Chinese tires before I will give ONE CENT to Michelin under any circumstances!
Please stay off public roads.
]
By your logic, it's much safer to be running around on a set of overpriced, bald michelins in a snowstorm than it is to be on 4 brand new chinese tires with full tread?
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I will run 4 different brands of used Chinese tires before I will give ONE CENT to Michelin under any circumstances!
Please stay off public roads.
]
By your logic, it's much safer to be running around on a set of overpriced, bald michelins in a snowstorm than it is to be on 4 brand new chinese tires with full tread?
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