My Winter Tire thread

[stevejones]

Just got done shelling out $1K for two new sets of winter tires, thought I'd start a thread to give my impressions as the season progresses. First set are the Nokian Hakka 7 in a 205/55/R16 flavor. The car is a 2008 Pontiac G5 coupe, 2.2l & M5 tranny. This will be my daily driver unless things get out of hand. Tires were made in Russia & obtained through Discount Tire. They are replacing a set of CS5 Ultras, which I've saved for next summer as they're in good shape. Initial impressions are sans snow. The tires exhibit a little more road noise and less precise handling, but nothing alarming nor unexpected. The tread blocks are relatively squishy in 40F temperatures. No appreciable loss in fuel economy in the first 400 miles or so. 2nd are the Cooper WeatherMaster WSC in a 215/55/R17 size. The car is a 2010 Chevy Malibu with the 2.4l auto trans. This is a new-to-me ride, and will be my son's daily to college & work. Tires were made in England (no kidding) and bought locally through a mom & pop tire shop. They are replacing the OEM TPC spec Firestone FR710 which were worn out & destined for the scrap pile. Again, initial impressions are under dry conditions. They're actually quieter & ride better than the original tires; no surprise there given the age and condition of the 710s. Tread blocks are firmer than the Hakkas; and it's too early to judge fuel economy impact. Both tires are studdable, but local legislators have deemed road longevity is more important than the safety of their constituents....so the only stud in this story is me. That's all for now!

 

[Kira]

Are you saying that studded snow tires are illegal where you live? UNRELATED: Has anyone ever seen a tire studder? Is it a syringe type tool?

 

[old1]

I used to have a tire studder. It was air powered. It spread the hole and pushed the stud in.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

If you're showing threads on your winter tires, it's time for new ones. Goes along with your stud comment

 

[stevejones]

Originally Posted By: Kira

Are you saying that studded snow tires are illegal where you live?

No, my state DOT says they are illegal.

 

[Bandito440]

I love the Hakkas; has them on my first car, which was an old Volvo 740. At the time, they were similar in cost to other brands. When I looked last year, they were the most expensive by a wide margin. I wish they were still more reasonable.

 

[WishIhadatruck]

I really like the look of the Cooper Weather-Master WSC's. I have the same size tire on my Cruze, 215/55R17, but Cooper's website doesn't show that as an available size. I might need to ask about them at the tire store if true next time I need tires. I hate my Michelin Xice Xi3 tires due to the fact that they are horrible in slush, they just slide around. Worst tires I've ever had for that. I look forward to hearing how they work for you, they look like they would cut thru the slush pretty well. They aren't rated quite as well as the top tier winter tires in snow and ice, but have better mild weather qualities. They are still a good snow and ice tire still from the tests I've seen. Cooper Weather-Master WSC

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Studded tires are useless in almost all conditions except very wet ice very close to freezing point. In all other cases, studless FAR outperforms them! And in those **RARE*** conditions where the studs are actually useful, you can always carry a pair of chains, and take them off as soon as the road is clear again. A modern studless tire like the Nokian Hakka R2 or even the Dunlop Winter Maxx will be MUCH better for your intended usage Cooper used to make some awesome studless winter tires like the Weathermaster Snow and WM-SA2. They were also made in England, in the Avon factory (Cooper owns Avon). And AFAIK, studded tires are illegal in the UK where they're made Also, the Nokian Hakka 8 uses two types of studs in the same tire, and they are supposed to more road-friendly. I'm not sure about the older Hakka 7, though. Nokian's studded tires are the only ones with modern tire tech. The rest are old technology with or without the studs. I didn't know the Hakka 7/8 was available without the studs. I've only seen them pre-studded. But the R2 will probably outperform a non-studded 7 or 8 The two tire sizes you use, 205/55-16 and 215/55-17 have a LOT of choices and are among the most common tire sizes out there

 

[anl0109]

Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog

I didn't know the Hakka 7/8 was available without the studs.

The non-studded Hakka 7 is a DT-only offering. Read a press release about it about a year ago. Normally, 7's were sold studded from the factory. DT must have made a deal with Nokian to resurrect old equipment/molds and make this tire again. Probably pretty inexpensive for Nokian. When rebates are offered, a set of 7's can be had from DT for a pretty good price. I have two sets in 205/55R16 and 215/60R16. Haven't used them in much snow yet. They are noisy and ride is a bit more bouncy than my all-seasons but braking is good in cold weather and tread depth of 12/32" is nice. Really looking forward to some snow.

 

[EdwardC]

Make sure the Hakka 7 tire you want is in stock though, I tried buying a set of them earlier this year, but they said it was discontinued (the size I wanted was out of stock). If they have the size you want, go for it.

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: anl0109

...The non-studded Hakka 7 is a DT-only offering. Read a press release about it about a year ago. Normally, 7's were sold studded from the factory. DT must have made a deal with Nokian to resurrect old equipment/molds and make this tire again. Probably pretty inexpensive for Nokian...

Nokian also recently started offering the old Hakka7 tread design in their "affordable" Nordman tire lineup. https://www.nokiantyres.com/company/news...winter-weather/

Quote:

Nokian Tyres is renewing its Nordman product family. The new, reliable and durable Nokian Nordman 7 and Nokian Nordman 7 SUV studded tyres utilise a unique stud technology that offers safe and comfortable winter driving. The carefully tried and tested technological solutions ensure that new Nokian Nordman tyres are a reliable choice for the varying Northern conditions in terms of safety as well as overall economy……...The key markets for Nokian Nordman studded tyres are in the Nordic countries, Russia and North America. The comprehensive size selection of these new products will be available to consumers in the autumn of 2017.

 

[anl0109]

SubLGT: Thanks for posting. That was news to me. It's interesting that Nokian is bringing back the 7 via DT and its entry-level line when it seems like it's a pretty old design by now. Maybe they've always done it: old Hakka = new Nordman?

 

[krzyss]

Nordman is quite recent invention of Nokian, maybe after building a factory in Russia. They recycle their old designs under budget brand name. Similar to Continental, which uses General as their budget brand. Krzyś

 

[SubLGT]

I believe General shares some tread designs with Gislaved winter tires.

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT

I believe General shares some tread designs with Gislaved winter tires.

Yes, General tires in North America gets hand-me-downs from Gislaved winter tires. Gislaved gets some hand-me-downs from Continental brand itself.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog

Studded tires are useless in almost all conditions except very wet ice very close to freezing point. In all other cases, studless FAR outperforms them! And in those **RARE*** conditions where the studs are actually useful, you can always carry a pair of chains, and take them off as soon as the road is clear again. A modern studless tire like the Nokian Hakka R2 or even the Dunlop Winter Maxx will be MUCH better for your intended usage Cooper used to make some awesome studless winter tires like the Weathermaster Snow and WM-SA2. They were also made in England, in the Avon factory (Cooper owns Avon). And AFAIK, studded tires are illegal in the UK where they're made Also, the Nokian Hakka 8 uses two types of studs in the same tire, and they are supposed to more road-friendly. I'm not sure about the older Hakka 7, though. Nokian's studded tires are the only ones with modern tire tech. The rest are old technology with or without the studs. I didn't know the Hakka 7/8 was available without the studs. I've only seen them pre-studded. But the R2 will probably outperform a non-studded 7 or 8 The two tire sizes you use, 205/55-16 and 215/55-17 have a LOT of choices and are among the most common tire sizes out there

The new EcoStuds are much better. They retract into the tire when they make contact with pavement. You get the best of both worlds. I wish studs were not outright illegal here. We should do like the EU countries, and just say studs can not damage pavement. That is why Ecostuds were created. Had a set of Hakka studded winter tires on my smart car. They had unbelievable grip in all conditions. Nothing could touch me from a light in slippery conditions.

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog

...Studded tires are useless in almost all conditions except very wet ice very close to freezing point. In all other cases, studless FAR outperforms them! ……...Also, the Nokian Hakka 8 uses two types of studs in the same tire, and they are supposed to more road-friendly…..Nokian's studded tires are the only ones with modern tire tech. The rest are old technology with or without the studs….

You have to have temps down at around 10F or colder before a premium studless tire can match a premium studded tire in braking on ice, based on the tests I have read over the last 10 years. When conditions are the most treacherous and dangerous, with smooth, wet ice near 30F, a premium studded tire will have a HUGE advantage over a premium studless tire. Also revealed by these tests is that, in general, studded tires have shorter braking distances on wet pavement than studless tires. The only BIG advantage studless has over studded is in tire noise. The Hakka9 uses 2 types of studs, not the Hakka8. Nokian is not the only winter tire with "modern tech". Continental, Michelin, Goodyear, and even Hankook are equal to Nokian in technology. (I own studless Nokian R2s because the noise of Hakka8 or 9 studded tires would drive me crazy.)