My Viper Truck - Oil related Musings

[jamesyarbrough]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: GutsyGecko
Here's my thing, after a few (10) laps at the track, if you pull into the pits 0w-40 M1 will set the low oil pressure warning lights off. I've seen 360F oil temps before, and that's the norm for track use age. It rides like a dream at 160. With 50wt HOT oil pressure at idle is 22 ish psi. (Lights turn on at 20 psi). The cam manufacturer recommends the 15w-50 or equivalent.



With oil temps at 360F I'd be using that 10w-60 redline you acquired and I'd be looking for more.
Even a straight 60 grade if the truck is a warm weather only vehicle.
Amsoil makes a v-twin oil in the straight 60 grade.
Because of the insane oil temps you are experiencing I'd look to a motorcycle specific oil. They are made for the extreme heat that can easily creep up on a big cube air cooled v-twin when moving slow or stuck in traffic.
Then I'd add a friction modifier like mos2 just to help because v-twin oils have lots of zddp but no moly,and I dropped 40f using mos2 in my Harley based on using my temp gun pointed at the heads.
With oil temps that high you need a fan cooled oil cooler and a serious oil.
Try that redline you suggested right off the bat. Get a few used oil analysis done to establish trends then thicken or thin based on the collected data.
I'd stick with a redline product and if they've got limited options then I'd go with a v-twin oil from amsoil.
Those are insane oil temps. You need something that is overkill,redline products are formulated with overkill already inside.
And being poe/pao is a definite requirement and redline has it.


I have a friend who runs a straight 70 in his promod. I think he said it was Kendall synthetic.....but hes running a blown2500 hp alky drinking hemi.

 

[GutsyGecko]

Thanks for the advice guys. The truck isn't even started unless weather is above 60F. Anything less its pushed by hand to its other parking spots. The stock fan is run off the power steering pump and is pretty weak for what it is, but it does move air over the coolers. The truck is only really driven to car shows or to and from the track. I have other toys more suited to daily trips. I will definitely do a UOA of the redline 10w-60 after 2k tracked miles, and again at 4k if black stone thinks I can run it that long. Something about a 515 cubic inch big block that turns 6k rpm and creates this much heat tears up oil like no other.

 

[Bandito440]

360F... mother of god.

Red Line 10w-60?
Amsoil Dominator Racing SAE60?
Royal Purple Nitro Plus SAE70 cut with roofing tar?

 

[GutsyGecko]

It gets there, but only after 15-20 minutes of foot to the floor circuit track racing. It's something like 30-140 WOT, followed by all in braking for 10 seconds, and them running it back up WOT straight for 20 minutes.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Why is everyone here discussing different oils?

Folks, if he's only holding 22psi @ idle (especially with 15w-50), and supposedly hitting 360°F, there are serious problems here that no oil is going to fix.




I'm inclined to agree here. Needs bigger coolers or something.

 

[Triton_330]

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
360F... mother of god.

Red Line 10w-60?
Amsoil Dominator Racing SAE60?
Royal Purple Nitro Plus SAE70 cut with roofing tar?


Hahahaha... Oh geez. On a serious note, and sorry if this is naive, but what exactly do you mean "cut with roofing tar?"

 

[turtlevette]

I know a bit about track days having done many in my old vette. It's hard to believe that you're getting 10 quarts of oil with oil coolers that hot in a 20 minute session. Most tracks I know don't have that many long straights.

If there are thermostats on the coolers, I'd check them or remove them. Else you need bigger oil coolers. Running a 60 weight oil is a bandaid. You want to keep the oil under 300.

If not a larger oil cooler, get a windshield washer pump with pushbutton in cab. Have it dribble a mix of water/alcohol on the oil coolers. Latent heat of vaporization provides a good heat sump.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: GutsyGecko
I will definitely do a UOA of the redline 10w-60 after 2k tracked miles, and again at 4k if black stone thinks I can run it that long. Something about a 515 cubic inch big block that turns 6k rpm and creates this much heat tears up oil like no other.


I missed this on the first pass. Where are you getting that much track time? That's great. You probably need to change the oil every 500-1000 miles. Racing and running down the highway at 70 are not comparable.

 

[285south]

How about using Dodge Viper oil?

Edit - I'm not joking here. I'm sure if you find out and let us know. For these beast type engines I would be using what Lamborghini, Bentley, or Mclaren mp4-12c use in theirs and try that.

 

[SteveSRT8]

The tune may be a contributor. Is this a real tweaked dyno tune or a canned tune?

These engines are known to be marginal on cooling for track use, but who takes a pickup to the track? Why, SRT10 owners, that's who! But seriously, there may be an oil cooler problem here, as a friend of mine owns an 800 hp version with twin turbos by Hennesey that has never seen much over 300 degrees or so. This engine may have been damaged somehow, cam and tune suggests abuse to me.

I have a ton of track time in six speed manual versions of these trucks at Homestead when Skip Barber used to host the SRT Experience there. What a monster.

 

[440Magnum]

You really need more oil cooling (air flow, most likely), or a tune that doesn't waste so much heat. SRT engines run the oil fairly hot, but 360F is excessive. 300F is perfectly normal, but you're 60F above that. Fix that, and then use the correct grade oil (though for mostly track use, a 15w50 would be OK and Redline ester-based oil would be an excellent thing to look at). Part of it is just that the Viper V10 was made to push a very, very slick supercar around at 200 mph all day... not really to haul a 5500-lb wind-brick around at 160 all day... although it does it remarkably well ;-)

285South: M1 0w40 (up till ~2010, now PU 10w40) IS "Dodge Viper oil."

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I know a bit about track days having done many in my old vette. It's hard to believe that you're getting 10 quarts of oil with oil coolers that hot in a 20 minute session. Most tracks I know don't have that many long straights.

If there are thermostats on the coolers, I'd check them or remove them. Else you need bigger oil coolers. Running a 60 weight oil is a bandaid. You want to keep the oil under 300.

If not a larger oil cooler, get a windshield washer pump with pushbutton in cab. Have it dribble a mix of water/alcohol on the oil coolers. Latent heat of vaporization provides a good heat sump.



This^^^.
If you have two oil coolers on your truck that are larger than the 2' x 1.5' grill opening, and the oil temperature is 360F, I would say you need to do some work to feed more air to the coolers, get better coolers, and/or assure that your oil filter base is feeding oil to the coolers. Since engine bearings don't really like to run above ~400F, you are pushing the temperature too high. (Assuming leaded bronze bearings; lead melts at 400F. Bad news.) I would NOT run a conventional oil in this application until you can get the oil temp controlled to 300F. Redline oil is the way to go when temps get that high, but using 60-weight and higher viscosity is just putting a band-aid on the problem of having an oil cooling system that isn't working. You should have been doing UOA's from the first time your oil temp went above 300F.

 

[Bandito440]

Originally Posted By: Triton_330
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
360F... mother of god.

Red Line 10w-60?
Amsoil Dominator Racing SAE60?
Royal Purple Nitro Plus SAE70 cut with roofing tar?


Hahahaha... Oh geez. On a serious note, and sorry if this is naive, but what exactly do you mean "cut with roofing tar?"

I was just being humorous, suggesting that 70 wasn't thick enough and required the addition of roofing tar.

Seriously though, are those oil coolers working?

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Running a 60 weight oil is a bandaid.


Another thing- with really thick oil, you can experience a dramatic drop in flow through the coolers. The oil is at its coolest IN the coolers, and therefore at its thickest and hardest to move. Going thicker and thicker hits a wall of diminishing returns at some point- it can't be pumped through the coolers as effectively as a thinner oil can.

I'm definitely on the bandwagon of getting more oil cooling. Or finding out why its so hot in the first place.

 

[NHHEMI]

Sounds like a classic case where a racing oil is called for. I would also work on increasing the cooling. Are you running coolers with their own electric fans on them?

http://www.usmotorworks.com/DE_FanMountedOilCoolers.php