Higher HT/HS with lower +100c cSt is the "tell" of a higher performing oil. HT/HS does not put "drag" on the engine, rather higher visc at op temp does. THAT'S what makes an oil like Redline BETTER. LESS drag with adequate HT/HS. Oil 101. Another reason to do your homework.
My open mind wants to try Royal Purple
- Thread starter glxpassat
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Based on what you are saying, Delo straight 30 is just as 'high performing' as GC. They have the same viscosities at 100c and HTHS viscosity at 150c, so that doesn't "tell" me anything. I would guess GC is the higher performing oil with it's group 4 oils.
If you really want to see the difference between them, you need to compare the viscosities at 40c to their HTHS viscosity. Here, Delo is 110 cst and GC is 70 cst, indicating that GC is the oil with the much higher viscosity index and better base oil. Oil 101, better do more homework.
If you really want to see the difference between them, you need to compare the viscosities at 40c to their HTHS viscosity. Here, Delo is 110 cst and GC is 70 cst, indicating that GC is the oil with the much higher viscosity index and better base oil. Oil 101, better do more homework.
So do we have a MSDS for the GC or not? Before trying this oil (running amsoil now) I want to see something telling me its a "real" synthetic. aside from that, did the formula change when it went from green to gold?
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Originally Posted By: glxpassat
Based on what you are saying, Delo straight 30 is just as 'high performing' as GC. They have the same viscosities at 100c and HTHS viscosity at 150c, so that doesn't "tell" me anything.
Oh Delo 30 HT/HS is 3.6cP? If so, that goes back to the monograde thang. Regardless, a 12cSt oil that has 3.5cP IS a HIGH PERFORMANCE FLUID.
I think you have to consider a bit more than that single aspect, like CC and again, the oem specs. Few oils can do it all, none match GC in ALL those respects. Isn't this thread about RP? Got any HT/HS figures on that? My bet is that the 10cSt multigrade 30 weights have the same HT/HS as plain $2 dino oils. Wanna put any money on that? As a teaser, Redline's 20 weight has HT/HS of 3.4cP.
Based on what you are saying, Delo straight 30 is just as 'high performing' as GC. They have the same viscosities at 100c and HTHS viscosity at 150c, so that doesn't "tell" me anything.
Oh Delo 30 HT/HS is 3.6cP? If so, that goes back to the monograde thang. Regardless, a 12cSt oil that has 3.5cP IS a HIGH PERFORMANCE FLUID.
I think you have to consider a bit more than that single aspect, like CC and again, the oem specs. Few oils can do it all, none match GC in ALL those respects. Isn't this thread about RP? Got any HT/HS figures on that? My bet is that the 10cSt multigrade 30 weights have the same HT/HS as plain $2 dino oils. Wanna put any money on that? As a teaser, Redline's 20 weight has HT/HS of 3.4cP.
Youse guys still spittin on this one?
No, I'm bored and done with it.
GLX....I was not trying to debate the HTHS.....just suggesting asking for it....another item of data to use in comparison to other oils of the same viscosity.
I did not see it on their website when I looked.
I don't know that it can be "interpolated" from the other numbers listed.
I am almost afraid to mention.....but I would like to hear back how the oil does in your application.
I did not see it on their website when I looked.
I don't know that it can be "interpolated" from the other numbers listed.
I am almost afraid to mention.....but I would like to hear back how the oil does in your application.
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wiswind, the 5w-40 is A2/A3 rated so I know it's HTHS is at least 3.5 cst, which is what European cars are looking for. I'm sure the 10w40 and 15w40 will be even higher. The 20 and 30 weights are probably typical A1/A5 oils like Mobil-1's 20/30 weights with an HTHS around 3.0 or less.
It will probably be 1-2 months before my next change, and so it's going to be a while before it will be tested, but I will post the results. If I feel/hear any difference in how my motor runs or notice a change in economy after putting it in, I'll post that right away as that's what I'm most interested in knowing anyway.
It will probably be 1-2 months before my next change, and so it's going to be a while before it will be tested, but I will post the results. If I feel/hear any difference in how my motor runs or notice a change in economy after putting it in, I'll post that right away as that's what I'm most interested in knowing anyway.
Mobil 1 0w-40 takes 14cSt @+100c to make 3.5cP@+150c HT/HS
German Syntec 0w-30 takes 12cSt to make 3.5cP@+150c HT/HS
Redline 10w-40 takes 14cSt to make 4.7cP@+150 HT/HS
Royal Purple ????????????????????? It's PURPLE!
"HT/HS or "High Temperature/High Shear" (ASTM D-4683) is an rating that determines the oils stability in a high temperature, high stress conditions. The oil's ability to withstand shearing and tearing is very important especially in a high RPM engine. The oil's ability to protect bearings, cylinder walls and rings, connecting rod bearings, main bearings, cam lobes and lifters, etc. is vital to an engine. For an oil to pass the ASTM D-4683, an oil must have a protective viscosity of 2.9 cP at 302 degrees F."
If Royal Purple beats this, I'll eat my hat....
http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/4.pdf
German Syntec 0w-30 takes 12cSt to make 3.5cP@+150c HT/HS
Redline 10w-40 takes 14cSt to make 4.7cP@+150 HT/HS
Royal Purple ????????????????????? It's PURPLE!
"HT/HS or "High Temperature/High Shear" (ASTM D-4683) is an rating that determines the oils stability in a high temperature, high stress conditions. The oil's ability to withstand shearing and tearing is very important especially in a high RPM engine. The oil's ability to protect bearings, cylinder walls and rings, connecting rod bearings, main bearings, cam lobes and lifters, etc. is vital to an engine. For an oil to pass the ASTM D-4683, an oil must have a protective viscosity of 2.9 cP at 302 degrees F."
If Royal Purple beats this, I'll eat my hat....
http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/4.pdf
Some fun stuff on Delo 30...
Chevron Delo 400 SAE 30 provides improved fuel
economy relative to heavier viscosity grades.
Chevron Delo 400 SAE 30 can be used in powershift
transmissions requiring a Caterpillar TO 2 or an Allison
C4 fluid.
Chevron Delo 400 oils meet:
• API Service Categories
— CI-4, CH-4, CG-4,
— CF, CD1, SG1, SH1
— SL (SAE 10W-30, 20, 30, 40, 50)
— CE1 (SAE 30)
• major diesel engine manufacturers'
requirements
Caterpillar J.I. Case
Cummins John Deere
DAF Komatsu
DaimlerChrysler Kubota
Detroit Diesel (four-stroke)
Deutz Mack
Fiat / Allis Mercedes
Ford MTU
GMC / GM Navistar
International Renault
Iveco Scania
Volvo
• performance requirements of
— Allison C4 Fluids (SAE 10W-30, 10W, 30)
• engine test performance requirements
— DDC/MTU Types/Categories 1 and 2 (SAE 30, 40)
— MAN 270 (SAE 30, 40, 50)
— Mercedes Benz 228.2 (SAE 30, 40, 50)
— Volvo VDS
• manufacturers' performance requirements
— Chrysler MS 6395-G (SAE 10W-30, 30)
Chevron Delo 400 SAE 30 provides improved fuel
economy relative to heavier viscosity grades.
Chevron Delo 400 SAE 30 can be used in powershift
transmissions requiring a Caterpillar TO 2 or an Allison
C4 fluid.
Chevron Delo 400 oils meet:
• API Service Categories
— CI-4, CH-4, CG-4,
— CF, CD1, SG1, SH1
— SL (SAE 10W-30, 20, 30, 40, 50)
— CE1 (SAE 30)
• major diesel engine manufacturers'
requirements
Caterpillar J.I. Case
Cummins John Deere
DAF Komatsu
DaimlerChrysler Kubota
Detroit Diesel (four-stroke)
Deutz Mack
Fiat / Allis Mercedes
Ford MTU
GMC / GM Navistar
International Renault
Iveco Scania
Volvo
• performance requirements of
— Allison C4 Fluids (SAE 10W-30, 10W, 30)
• engine test performance requirements
— DDC/MTU Types/Categories 1 and 2 (SAE 30, 40)
— MAN 270 (SAE 30, 40, 50)
— Mercedes Benz 228.2 (SAE 30, 40, 50)
— Volvo VDS
• manufacturers' performance requirements
— Chrysler MS 6395-G (SAE 10W-30, 30)
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I hear their XPR Racing oils are really good. I`ve often wondered how their single grade oils fare (SAE40,SAE50)?
Every group 1 straight 30w diesel oil has a viscosity of 12 cst @ 100c and HTHS = 3.5. That's where the standard of hths = 3.5 came from, the Europeans believe a straight 30w is the minimum that should be run in their motors.
And sure, it performs great, if you can get your motor to crank! Delo has a viscosity of 105 cst at 40c with a viscosity index of 104. GC performs the same way on the hot end of the scale, but also has great cold weather performance since it has a viscosity index of approx. 180.
So, there's really nothing "high performance" about GC on the hot end of the scale. It's benefits are on the lower end, where "high performance" is not generally a concern, but cranking is.
And sure, it performs great, if you can get your motor to crank! Delo has a viscosity of 105 cst at 40c with a viscosity index of 104. GC performs the same way on the hot end of the scale, but also has great cold weather performance since it has a viscosity index of approx. 180.
So, there's really nothing "high performance" about GC on the hot end of the scale. It's benefits are on the lower end, where "high performance" is not generally a concern, but cranking is.
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So...
5w-30 PCMO=2.9cP
SAE 30 HD=3.5cP
15w-40 HD=4.1cP
But does...
5w-40 PCMO=3.5cP or 4.1?
5w-40 HD = ????
Hard to argue against monogrades if you make long trips and want to save gas. I knew SAE 30 replaced 40 weights in Euro apps.
5w-30 PCMO=2.9cP
SAE 30 HD=3.5cP
15w-40 HD=4.1cP
But does...
5w-40 PCMO=3.5cP or 4.1?
5w-40 HD = ????
Hard to argue against monogrades if you make long trips and want to save gas. I knew SAE 30 replaced 40 weights in Euro apps.
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My open mind wants to try Royal Purple
I want to try Royal Purple!
I want to try Royal Purple!
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
My open mind wants to try Royal Purple
I want to try Royal Purple!
I can't blame you one bit after Amsoil did that to you!!
My open mind wants to try Royal Purple
I want to try Royal Purple!
I can't blame you one bit after Amsoil did that to you!!
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
So...
5w-30 PCMO=2.9cP
SAE 30 HD=3.5cP
15w-40 HD=4.1cP
But does...
5w-40 PCMO=3.5cP or 4.1?
5w-40 HD = ????
All of the 15w-40's I've looked at are around 4.3. I've seen 5w-40's PCMO range from 3.6-3.8 and HD 5w-40 range from D1 = 4.1 to Shaeffer's 9000 = 4.5
So...
5w-30 PCMO=2.9cP
SAE 30 HD=3.5cP
15w-40 HD=4.1cP
But does...
5w-40 PCMO=3.5cP or 4.1?
5w-40 HD = ????
All of the 15w-40's I've looked at are around 4.3. I've seen 5w-40's PCMO range from 3.6-3.8 and HD 5w-40 range from D1 = 4.1 to Shaeffer's 9000 = 4.5
My current fill is rp 5w-30, i like it, so far 4K miles on it. I'm going to try other oils over the next oci's. Go ahead and give it a shot.
Mike
Mike
Diesel specs call for 4.1cP, that's what makes 5w-40 PCMOs odd to be down near the Euro spec 3.5cP. People think of them as similar.
fwiw, Rotella 10w-30 may indeed be a sleeper.
fwiw, Rotella 10w-30 may indeed be a sleeper.
Most PCMO 5W-40'S, like Syntec with an HTHS around 3.6, carry the B3 and/or B4 diesel specs, which are not a HD spec like the E4 spec that D1 has with the HTHS of 4.1.
I've never seen the Rotella 10w-30 here in Alabama, but I think it would be a good one!
I've never seen the Rotella 10w-30 here in Alabama, but I think it would be a good one!
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Here's an oil test that includes around 20 oils including RP. RP showed a smaller wear scar than all the others. I don't know if that means anything or if the testing methodology is valid or not. RP is near the end of the document. Just pointing this doc out for debate:
http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil Tests.pdf
http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil Tests.pdf
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