My oil-in-freezer test.
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my Mobil 1 ow-30 passes the -30 freezer test every winter
Originally Posted By: jstutz
well, i exported some of the excell sheet and made it a photo so i could share it with you guys, i cant figure out how to post a picture
Upload the Excel Sheet here
http://www.filepanda.com/
Or upload the picture here
http://www.tinypic.com/
Then you can use the link here.
well, i exported some of the excell sheet and made it a photo so i could share it with you guys, i cant figure out how to post a picture
Upload the Excel Sheet here
http://www.filepanda.com/
Or upload the picture here
http://www.tinypic.com/
Then you can use the link here.
Last edited:
http://www.filepanda.com/file/nkamoiibyexo/
Well see if that works for you all. I posted my raw excell sheet so it is not formatted to share but i think you will get the point. I have used the program talked about above to include graphs of some popular oils
Well see if that works for you all. I posted my raw excell sheet so it is not formatted to share but i think you will get the point. I have used the program talked about above to include graphs of some popular oils
Thanks!
Well this is disappointing. I just did my winter oil change on the truck with M1 0w30 for the first time in hopes that it would be nice and thin when cold. I've noticed over the years of using M1 5w30 that it doesn't seem particularly thin based on the speed of crank-over on cold winter mornings.
Minimum pumping temperature is a better real world measurement. The 40C test, while interesting is of little value.
Originally Posted By: Nayov
Well this is disappointing. I just did my winter oil change on the truck with M1 0w30 for the first time in hopes that it would be nice and thin when cold. I've noticed over the years of using M1 5w30 that it doesn't seem particularly thin based on the speed of crank-over on cold winter mornings.
dont worry about it I run mobil 1 0w30 in one of my vehicles and its fine in ultra low temps, I get 20-30 below zero all winter. It will have better cold weather properties than the mobil 1 5w30
Well this is disappointing. I just did my winter oil change on the truck with M1 0w30 for the first time in hopes that it would be nice and thin when cold. I've noticed over the years of using M1 5w30 that it doesn't seem particularly thin based on the speed of crank-over on cold winter mornings.
dont worry about it I run mobil 1 0w30 in one of my vehicles and its fine in ultra low temps, I get 20-30 below zero all winter. It will have better cold weather properties than the mobil 1 5w30
So how do they come up with that first number? Is it related at all to pour point? Or maybe the 40 C viscosity?
Originally Posted By: stranger706
So how do they come up with that first number? Is it related at all to pour point? Or maybe the 40 C viscosity?
The 0Wxx, 5Wxx, etc are determined by cold cranking viscosity (CCS) and pumpability at extreme cold temperatures (MRV).
A 0W grade oil must have a maximum CCS centipoise (cP) value of 3250 @ -30 degrees C as well as a maximum MRV cP of 60,000 @ -40 degrees C.
A 5W grade oil must have a maximum CCS cP value of 3500 @ -25 degree C and a maximum MRV cP of 60,000 @ -30 degrees C. The lower the cP value for both specifications, the better.
Note that -40C = -40F and -30C = -22F.
Notice that the 0W grade oil is tested at a lower temperature on both tests AND must still have a lower CCS cP value than a 5W oil which is tested at a higher temperature. As a result, a 0w30 will allow your vehicle to start easier on a cold morning than a 5w30 will.
Nevertheless, at 100 degrees C, they all fall within the same kinematic viscosity range. Therefore, they are all classified as SAE 30 weight oils at 100 degrees C. In other words, after your engine has warmed up, a 0w30, 5w30 and 10w30 motor oil are basically the same thickness (within a certain SAE specified range).
http://members.themotoroilevaluator.com/index.php?id=144
So how do they come up with that first number? Is it related at all to pour point? Or maybe the 40 C viscosity?
The 0Wxx, 5Wxx, etc are determined by cold cranking viscosity (CCS) and pumpability at extreme cold temperatures (MRV).
A 0W grade oil must have a maximum CCS centipoise (cP) value of 3250 @ -30 degrees C as well as a maximum MRV cP of 60,000 @ -40 degrees C.
A 5W grade oil must have a maximum CCS cP value of 3500 @ -25 degree C and a maximum MRV cP of 60,000 @ -30 degrees C. The lower the cP value for both specifications, the better.
Note that -40C = -40F and -30C = -22F.
Notice that the 0W grade oil is tested at a lower temperature on both tests AND must still have a lower CCS cP value than a 5W oil which is tested at a higher temperature. As a result, a 0w30 will allow your vehicle to start easier on a cold morning than a 5w30 will.
Nevertheless, at 100 degrees C, they all fall within the same kinematic viscosity range. Therefore, they are all classified as SAE 30 weight oils at 100 degrees C. In other words, after your engine has warmed up, a 0w30, 5w30 and 10w30 motor oil are basically the same thickness (within a certain SAE specified range).
http://members.themotoroilevaluator.com/index.php?id=144
Take some Amsoil SSO 0w30 and put it in your freezer, it will pour almost like water at +2F
I tried it at -10F and it just started to thicken up to the consistency of watery/runny honey and still poured out quite easily.
I was impressed.
I tried it at -10F and it just started to thicken up to the consistency of watery/runny honey and still poured out quite easily.
I was impressed.
I would say "cool", but you might as well just crunch the numbers on Widman's visc calc. I use 0f or -10f as a baseline to compare oils because that's the most relavent temp for me.
http://www.widman.biz/Seleccion/Viscosidad/Conversiones/Graph/graph.html
That being said, the freezer test did make it clear that 5w-40 is thick in cold and a 10w30 does much better. I also found 10w-40 that can be thinner than 5w-40 at room temps.It was interesting too that it took a synth 5w-20 to beat a 0w-30, dino 5w-20 would not do it.
http://www.widman.biz/Seleccion/Viscosidad/Conversiones/Graph/graph.html
That being said, the freezer test did make it clear that 5w-40 is thick in cold and a 10w30 does much better. I also found 10w-40 that can be thinner than 5w-40 at room temps.It was interesting too that it took a synth 5w-20 to beat a 0w-30, dino 5w-20 would not do it.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
but you might as well just crunch the numbers on Widman's visc calc.
So say I want to compare QH 5W30, GC, Edge 5W30 and RLI 0W30. I would need to search out their product info sheete to obtain 2 viscosity points OR is there a sticky on BITOG showing the viscosity of many specific oils at 40 and 100?
but you might as well just crunch the numbers on Widman's visc calc.
So say I want to compare QH 5W30, GC, Edge 5W30 and RLI 0W30. I would need to search out their product info sheete to obtain 2 viscosity points OR is there a sticky on BITOG showing the viscosity of many specific oils at 40 and 100?
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Originally Posted By: jstutz
http://www.filepanda.com/file/nkamoiibyexo/
I posted my raw excell sheet so it is not formatted to share but i think you will get the point. I have used the program talked about above to include graphs of some popular oils
Thanks for posting but I am confused re the first graph shown i.e.viscosity vs Temp (f). I must be missing something but I dont think the viscosity intercept for PP 5W30 (ie viscosity at 0 F) is correct
.
I entered 57.5 for a cSt at 40 and 10.3 at 100 in the Widman conversion chart found here:
http://www.widman.biz/Seleccion/Viscosidad/Conversiones/Graph/graph.html
Now 0 F is equivalent to -18 C and Widman spits out 1859 not the mid 600s that appears on your graph. What am I missing?
http://www.filepanda.com/file/nkamoiibyexo/
I posted my raw excell sheet so it is not formatted to share but i think you will get the point. I have used the program talked about above to include graphs of some popular oils
Thanks for posting but I am confused re the first graph shown i.e.viscosity vs Temp (f). I must be missing something but I dont think the viscosity intercept for PP 5W30 (ie viscosity at 0 F) is correct
I entered 57.5 for a cSt at 40 and 10.3 at 100 in the Widman conversion chart found here:
http://www.widman.biz/Seleccion/Viscosidad/Conversiones/Graph/graph.html
Now 0 F is equivalent to -18 C and Widman spits out 1859 not the mid 600s that appears on your graph. What am I missing?
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I used this calculator
http://www.eskoindustries.com/viscadv.ph...;Calc=Calculate
There seems to be a discrepancy between the two calculators. Im not sure what the difference is. Maybe someone could let us know. If the other calculator is more accurate, then i will replot the data witht that other calculator. Again the results should be taken with a grain of salt at low temps becuase the calculator dont take into account the different basestocks and different VII's
http://www.eskoindustries.com/viscadv.ph...;Calc=Calculate
There seems to be a discrepancy between the two calculators. Im not sure what the difference is. Maybe someone could let us know. If the other calculator is more accurate, then i will replot the data witht that other calculator. Again the results should be taken with a grain of salt at low temps becuase the calculator dont take into account the different basestocks and different VII's
On their website Kendall 5w20 40C 45.9 Amsoil 45.4 PP and its twin Q horsepower 46.8 Kendall is a real sleeper oil.
I think the freezer test has a lot of validity.
Approx. 0 deg F showed big differences in oil thickness.
This is a common winter start up temperature.
-20 or -25 F would also be very enlightening, as many of us encounter that or lower.
Some here have argued about the relative merits of the respective oils once they were well warmed up, but that is a separate issue.
Approx. 0 deg F showed big differences in oil thickness.
This is a common winter start up temperature.
-20 or -25 F would also be very enlightening, as many of us encounter that or lower.
Some here have argued about the relative merits of the respective oils once they were well warmed up, but that is a separate issue.
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Originally Posted By: jstutz
I used this calculator
http://www.eskoindustries.com/viscadv.ph...;Calc=Calculate
There seems to be a discrepancy between the two calculators. Im not sure what the difference is. Maybe someone could let us know. If the other calculator is more accurate, then i will replot the data witht that other calculator. Again the results should be taken with a grain of salt at low temps becuase the calculator dont take into account the different basestocks and different VII's
I think the Widman Calculator is much more in the right ball park. Using PP 5w30 at -35C the Widman vis is 10,533 cSt vs 1670 cSt as calculated by Kenosindustries. The MRV spec' is 14,800 cP so the Widman calculation seems about right.
I used this calculator
http://www.eskoindustries.com/viscadv.ph...;Calc=Calculate
There seems to be a discrepancy between the two calculators. Im not sure what the difference is. Maybe someone could let us know. If the other calculator is more accurate, then i will replot the data witht that other calculator. Again the results should be taken with a grain of salt at low temps becuase the calculator dont take into account the different basestocks and different VII's
I think the Widman Calculator is much more in the right ball park. Using PP 5w30 at -35C the Widman vis is 10,533 cSt vs 1670 cSt as calculated by Kenosindustries. The MRV spec' is 14,800 cP so the Widman calculation seems about right.
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