My E46 323i using non-synthetic: sludge fest 2010!

[oliverr871]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: oliverr871
I drove it around the block. With the Service Engine Soon light on, it seems a little sluggish but I can't say for sure because I didn't speed or anything. The filter is amazingly clean, however I did notice that the viscosity of the oil is really REALLY thin, almost like slippery water so maybe I have to use a heavier weight oil. Time to try some HDEO with some more ATF.


Cut it out with the ATF. I don't know why people think ATF is a good crankcase cleaner. Out of your selection I'd use HDEO and MMO instead. Even though I'm far, far from a fanatic fan of MMO in the crankcase myself it would be more effective than ATF.

After all of the various kind of advice on here, who told you that ATF is a good crankcase cleaner? It's 5-10 weight engine oil with dye and friction modifiers in it.



And I don't know why people don't read my latest postings. There is no more ATF, thanks.

What about Rislone and MMO put together? Thoughts?

 

[CBR.worm]

If your oil pressure light is staying on, stop running the engine. Drop the pan and clean the screen before proceding. If it is not pumping the oil, it doesn't matter what is in there. If it is not moving sufficient oil more damage will be done very quickly.

 

[glxpassat]

Originally Posted By: oliverr871
And I don't know why people don't read my latest postings.


Wow, are you really looking for help?

Good luck, I certainly won't be.

 

[bimmerdriver]

Nothing Pablo said was offensive or personal. If he offended you, then I'm sure my post will offend you more.

I can only assume you started this thread to get advice, a lot of which was given. My advice was that you should pull the engine and remove the pan to see if the bottom end was still in good shape and if it was, tear the engine down, clean it up and do a minimal rebuild. Admittedly my advice was not the least expensive to follow, but if the engine was not already destroyed, it might have been less expensive to rebuild it than to replace it. I gave you this advice because I believed if you tried a band-aid solution like trying to flush the engine, the likely result was that the filter would be plugged and a once serviceable engine would be destroyed. BMW engines are very robust, but only to a limit, which you seem intent on crossing.

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. This is not rocket science. I told you if you tried to flush your engine, you would starve it of oil and that is clearly what is happening. What you are doing is killing the engine. Whenever you hear unusual noises coming from an engine, it is sign of a problem, which if not corrected, will get worse. Similarly for oil pressure light. Car manufacturers provide engine oil pressure lights for a reason. If the light is on, there is a problem (RTFM seems incredibly appropriate here). I can’t for the life of me figure out why you put transmission fluid in your engine. Transmission fluid is not for engines, which is why there are different oils for engines, transmissions, gear boxes, in the first place. Seriously, you probably could not have chosen a worse lubricant to put in your engine than transmission fluid, except maybe brake fluid.

You are not under any obligation to follow my advice, but I guarantee that what you are doing will kill the engine - if you haven’t killed it already – or is killing the engine your objective? There is a reason why many people call warning lights idiot lights. Enough said.

 

[OVERKILL]

At this point it is already pretty hurt.

If you are not going to pull the pan to clean the pick-up, drain the pan and put some diesel fuel or Kerosene in it overnight to soak. Drain it in the AM. This may clean the pick-up off. DO NOT START IT.

Put some fresh 15w40 in it with a NEW filter on after that. Fire it up, see if it is any better. Probably won't be, but it is worth a shot.

 

[oliverr871]

Using ATF in the crankcase while idle (or driving) the car I know has worked in the past with previous people who have had sludge problems. ATF is high in detergents and makes a great cleaning solvent. If you don't believe, if you have ever had your hands greased in black grease, put some ATF and watch it come right off. But the you have to remove the ATF from your hands! haha

My transmission has 130k, and has never had the fluid replaced (until now that is) but its clean. ATF is pretty sludge proof.

Thanks guys, I have heard of the flooding the engine with diesel/kerosene trick all the way up to the filler hole and letting it soak, and then draining it again. Maybe I'll try that. I'm just doing everything I can before having to remove the oil pan. If you know, on the E46, you have to remove the subframe to get to the oil pan. And it's been really hot here in SoCal lately, around 108 or so.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Since you know all about high-detergent ATF, you don't need the advice here.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: oliverr871
ATF is high in detergents and makes a great cleaning solvent. If you don't believe, if you have ever had your hands greased in black grease, put some ATF and watch it come right off. But the you have to remove the ATF from your hands! haha

My transmission has 130k, and has never had the fluid replaced (until now that is) but its clean. ATF is pretty sludge proof.



1. Try the same thing with engine oil. The results will probably surprise you.

2. ATF doesn't have to deal with combustion chamber temps, incredibly hot piston rings, gasoline blow-by and combustion by-products either.

When I take the cover off my differential, everything is pretty clean. Does that mean gear lube is a good cleaning solvent? How about when I take a wheel bearing apart and it is clean. Does that mean grease is a good solvent too?

ATF isn't used in an environment where sludge and varnish are usually created. So when you open the environment up where ATF is intended to be used and don't see those things, that should be expected. I don't open up my freezer and expect to see heat bluing on the metal shelving. And I wouldn't open up a transmission and expect to see accumulated combustion by-products and signs of broken-down engine oil either.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

When I take the cover off my differential, everything is pretty clean. Does that mean gear lube is a good cleaning solvent? How about when I take a wheel bearing apart and it is clean. Does that mean grease is a good solvent too?

Quote:

I don't open up my freezer and expect to see heat bluing on the metal shelving.


This made my day.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
At this point it is already pretty hurt.

If you are not going to pull the pan to clean the pick-up, drain the pan and put some diesel fuel or Kerosene in it overnight to soak. Drain it in the AM. This may clean the pick-up off. DO NOT START IT.

Put some fresh 15w40 in it with a NEW filter on after that. Fire it up, see if it is any better. Probably won't be, but it is worth a shot.



+1, D1/D2 are great solvents and have been used for years to help remove sludge from engines. It wouldn't surprise me if all these "engine cleaners" were in fact one of the two.

 

[oliverr871]

What is D1/D2?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: oliverr871
What is D1/D2?


D2 = Diesel
D1 = Kerosene

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: oliverr871
What is D1/D2?


Diesel #1 and #2. D2 is summer fuel, D1 is winter fuel (more like kero) in cold locations. Most areas blend the two.

 

[oliverr871]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: oliverr871
What is D1/D2?


Diesel #1 and #2. D2 is summer fuel, D1 is winter fuel (more like kero) in cold locations. Most areas blend the two.


Thanks for the info!

 

[zoomzoom]

I am curious how is this going to turn out..I do think you will have to take the oil pan off to make sure oil pickup screen and oil pump are not clogged.

 

[Bigsyke]

I wonder if that sludge is anything like the saab sludge, I dont think anything will dissolve it.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada

This made my day.

+1

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: oliverr871
So, today I did the valve cover gaskets on my 2000 323i. I had changed the oil using Castrol 0w30 European Formula and when I took out the filter, it had sludge remnants so I knew it was possible that there was sludge in the head.

There were no records of using synthetic oil before me, but the car is very quiet and runs great. I get 32 mpg, and have no issues with it. Got it for a good price too.

So, as I took off the valve cover, I was not surprised that there was a great amount of sludge. The filter does a good job at collecting it, so I'm not worried about it too much. The point is, how do I get rid of most of the sludge that's in there? I've heard of lots of ways, but which one would be most effective? Diesel, ATF, Auto-RX? Also, I know I should change the filter more frequently as well. Well, here are the pics. I know I can't get most of it out unless I took apart the engine and really cleaned everything. The car has 136k.

With this in mind, does sludge really affect anything? The cams don't have any scarring or wear, and neither do the valves. I know it can clog the oil pickup and passages possibly, but other than that...it should be alright.

Please keep in mind, that I had bought the car potentially knowing it had sludge in it, and that I myself, know what oils are best for vehicles, so please keep the flaming to a minimum and just let me know some tips on how to remove most of it. Thanks!

I remember someone once said this about an 03 BMW: "In five pages I don't see a single fact, not even a valid theory, why the OP can't use good dino 10w-40 in his car. It's a legitimate question and there should be a little bit more focused thought put into it.

A high-miles oil like MaxLife would be excellent, UOA w/TBN to verify the interval.

Who amongst you will volenteer?"

So much for that one.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Man, some people never let things go.

It was me who said to use 10w-40 in a Euro car, you should have just said so.

You forgot to mention my recommendation of 5k intervals, plus I said to use 15w-40 HD when possible as well as 10w-40 Blends.

It's ok to forget things and take statements out of context, that's the game you play when you are out of ideas and lack substance and facts to support your unstated contentions.

Check the TBN and ACEA ratings on some 10w-40 and 15w-40 oils and get back to us with a logical thesis of why the same TBN of 11 is fine for BMW labeled oil but not good enough for a 10w-40 with A3 or 15w-40 with Approvals as long as your arm. That post will be a little harder than compiling anonymous quotes taken out of context.

Really, if you're trying to say 10w-40 Syntec Blend of 15w-40 Delo or Rotella at 5k intervals would do this to an engine, that's just comical. You quoted some clod with no service records on his used car to "prove" what???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Logical_fallacies

 

[Craig in Canada]

Good dino oil in the right grade (HTHS needs to be on the high side so we're really looking at 10W40 and 15W40 only) is just fine in M50/M52/M52TU/M54/M62/M62TU engines for intervals of at least 5k. There are M62 UOAs on record at BITOG with 10k OCIs on GTX 10W40. I wouldn't do it, but the guy who did has had great results.

These engines are easy on oil, as a rule. Pick the right one (ACEA A3 is a good guide for Euro engines) and don't be an idiot with intervals and you're good to go.