To be fair I think you used 5w20 in them all. Even their first product was a metal 5w20 can. That's consistency!!I want to make a point; I am not saying 10K OCIs are for all engines in every application. However, it has worked well for me in every engine I've used M1 in the last four decades.
This is why it's always good to have a bit of humility, particularly when in regard to subjects you aren't an expert on. It's really not OK that we disagree because that means that there are multiple defendable sides to an argument, but with respect to the OP and his vehicle, that's not the case. He has 40+ years of experience doing the same thing with successful results, that's not up for debate or disagreement on, follow? There's nothing really to counter that with, he's not recommending others follow suit or that this is universally the case.I’m sorry to anyone who I may have made upset in anyway. I certainly didn’t mean to come across the way I did. It’s ok if we disagree.
The only person you need to apologize to is @tig1, because you basically accused him of lying. I might have gone to bat for him here, but you don't owe me an apology.Hopefully everyone will accept my apology and realize where I was coming from and my point of view on the situation.
Explain why, universally, that longer intervals (like 10K) are unsafe, because that's the appropriate counter and claim that requires support if you want to try and have a debate or discussion on the matter.I don’t want to argue with anyone so I’m not going to spark things more. Let me explain a bit more but not argue. I do disagree with at least Overkill and Tig1. And I’m sorry to both of you if you took what I said the wrong way.
I think you are still quite young and perhaps a bit too over-confident. This results in you stating, with conviction, conclusions that you've arrived at based on limited and/or dubious data. You also don't seem to be keen on appreciating nuance, which is why you going off half-cocked in this thread was such a spectacle.I think we definitely disagree on my experience as a mechanic but I still respect both of your opinions and your findings from long oil changes.
And this is you missing the nuance.And I wasn’t trying to blame the oil brand or anything they make great products it’s just we have a different opinion on how long they can safely be run.
As I noted earlier, if it doesn't say Mobil 1 on the bottle, the odds are extremely high that it's not Mobil 1 in the bottle. Just because the product is blended by XOM does not mean that any of the performance claims for a very specific product in their portfolio apply. They don't. Just because Michelin makes the OE tires for an econobox, it doesn't mean they are going to perform like Pilot Super Sport's, follow?If they aren’t and haven’t caused any problems then that’s great. My opinion was formed from working at a few dealerships where that brands oil happens to be made by Mobil 1 and I’ve seen problems in cars having run it that long.
That sounds like a LOT of speculation being ceded there, that's some pretty shaky ground from which to be making some very confident and firm statements like no oil is capable of a 10K interval.Some of which were regularly serviced by a dealership so it leads to only that particular oil being run and then I see consumption or other problems and it may not be the oil that is the problem but there is not really a way to have a complete culprit of the problem and I feel instinct would automatically believe the oil interval would be the cause.
Again, you don't owe me an apology, though I appreciate you taking the effort. I think you've just over-stepped here and clearly need to do a bit more reading on what determines safe OCI length, why we have OLM's now and things like that.And we do disagree on my experience too but I am having a hard time figuring out how to word that appropriately so I will just say we disagree on my experience. So to everyone and those two in particular please accept my apology and if you want to talk maybe message me on here and we can talk I just don’t want to argue. Thank you everyone. Anytime if you see we have a different opinion I don’t mind discussing it.
I follow you. I agree my experience may not be as much as some but that certainly doesn’t mean I don’t know anything and people here always seem to think I don’t which is why I try to state what I have found and then just talk it over. I don’t like starting arguments and that’s not my intention. I’m not sure I’m over confident I just felt comfortable answering as I’m a mechanic and as I do have some experience with consumption issues and problems in cars with extended oil change intervals. But it is possible maybe I did get some over confidence. Now sure I will say I’m not the owner of those so maybe I don’t know the driving conditions or how the car was ran in some of them not sure on the types of oil either. I’m certainly not an expert on oil and don’t claim to be. Maybe I made it sound like I was. But I’m just stating what I believe is true.This is why it's always good to have a bit of humility, particularly when in regard to subjects you aren't an expert on. It's really not OK that we disagree because that means that there are multiple defendable sides to an argument, but with respect to the OP and his vehicle, that's not the case. He has 40+ years of experience doing the same thing with successful results, that's not up for debate or disagreement on, follow? There's nothing really to counter that with, he's not recommending others follow suit or that this is universally the case.
The only person you need to apologize to is @tig1, because you basically accused him of lying. I might have gone to bat for him here, but you don't owe me an apology.
What makes you feel you are entitled to hold a point of view on his situation though, let alone one that's seemingly baseless and overtly contrary? It's just a man sharing his (successful) experience with this maintenance regiment on this piece of equipment using this lubricant. He wasn't soliciting advice nor looking to be chastised.
Explain why, universally, that longer intervals (like 10K) are unsafe, because that's the appropriate counter and claim that requires support if you want to try and have a debate or discussion on the matter.
I've got no qualms about delving into a productive discussion here, if you are willing and able, as long as tig1 doesn't mind it taking place in this thread. I'm still not entirely sure what it is you think you are disagreeing with us on however, because it surely can't be @tig1's success and experience, and neither one of us has advocated for blindly running extended intervals in this thread.
I think you are still quite young and perhaps a bit too over-confident. This results in you stating, with conviction, conclusions that you've arrived at based on limited and/or dubious data. You also don't seem to be keen on appreciating nuance, which is why you going off half-cocked in this thread was such a spectacle.
And this is you missing the nuance.
There is no single interval. There are myriad factors that play into how long a certain piece of equipment paired with a certain lubricant can operate before requiring a change.
This is why I said claiming the oil is only good for 5,000 miles is just as ridiculous as saying it's good for 20,000 miles. Both can be true and both can be wildly wrong, it depends on all of these other factors. The problem is that you you waded into this thread with it firmly established in your head, and thus stated definitively, that no oil is good for 10,000 mile intervals, regardless of these other factors and type of equipment, and that's wrong.
As I noted earlier, if it doesn't say Mobil 1 on the bottle, the odds are extremely high that it's not Mobil 1 in the bottle. Just because the product is blended by XOM does not mean that any of the performance claims for a very specific product in their portfolio apply. They don't. Just because Michelin makes the OE tires for an econobox, it doesn't mean they are going to perform like Pilot Super Sport's, follow?
That sounds like a LOT of speculation being ceded there, that's some pretty shaky ground from which to be making some very confident and firm statements like no oil is capable of a 10K interval.
Again, you don't owe me an apology, though I appreciate you taking the effort. I think you've just over-stepped here and clearly need to do a bit more reading on what determines safe OCI length, why we have OLM's now and things like that.
One thing to remember is it's not just about the miles on the oil, but the application. Some cars are easier on oils than others, the weather situation, and the driving style. A car that is short tripped, has GDI, and is in a cold environment is very different than say, my aunt's '16 Toyota Avalon that I maintain. She drives it 33 miles on the freeway to work and back everyday, almost no traffic just set the cruise control at 75 mph. While it only has 86k miles on it, I've changed the oil every 10k miles with Mobil 1 AFE 0w20 every 10k miles since new, and have no doubts it would hit 300k miles effortlessly. She won't keep it that long but it would be fine and that engine would be clean as a whistle too.I follow you. I agree my experience may not be as much as some but that certainly doesn’t mean I don’t know anything and people here always seem to think I don’t which is why I try to state what I have found and then just talk it over. I don’t like starting arguments and that’s not my intention. I’m not sure I’m over confident I just felt comfortable answering as I’m a mechanic and as I do have some experience with consumption issues and problems in cars with extended oil change intervals. But it is possible maybe I did get some over confidence. Now sure I will say I’m not the owner of those so maybe I don’t know the driving conditions or how the car was ran in some of them not sure on the types of oil either. I’m certainly not an expert on oil and don’t claim to be. Maybe I made it sound like I was. But I’m just stating what I believe is true.
What made me make the third post is when he mentioned working on jets. Saying he took care of his cars the same way. That actually concerned me as a jet engine is different from a car engine it’s the same concept but has different interval requirements so I just wanted to make sure that we were clear on that. And what I was discussing with someone earlier was say a person who is a airplane mechanic for 30 years is changing oil in his cars and doing the 10,000 mile oil change thing and has for years with no issues then someone who has maybe been a auto mechanic for 5 years for example has had 5 cars come in with extended oil changes and now it’s consuming oil and has problems well I’m going to trust the opinion of the auto mechanic on why you should not do long changes over the other mechanic who has worked on different stuff. And I believe that would be the right thing to do and what most people would do. The member never responded after I said that so maybe he doesn’t agree with me on that either. And believe me I appreciate any advice that anyone could give me doesn’t matter what it is or if they are older, younger anything. I’m not going to post anything on a forum that I know isn’t true or that I don’t believe.
I don’t know the best way to reply to anything else because I don’t want to word it wrong. And if I have not taken something clearly here just let me know. None of this post is intended as an argument or talking down or anything like that.
And I did have a member who I was talking with, Overkill and we were upset the way you come across to me in the one post but I don’t know if you meant to be harsh and we also talked about it in posts from the past too that it’s happened with. And I hope you understand where I’m coming from on that I may have come across that way to other members like tig. And I am sorry if I did come across that way. I didn’t mean for tig to think I was calling him a liar either. I would have also appreciated if more members would have reached out to me for clarification. I know I certainly would try and talk to the member before going higher. That is one other thing that upset me.
I’m sure we can talk it over though. Maybe you can help me out figure the best way to read more on things. And I do apologize to tig as I did earlier. When I made the first post I intended to leave it at that and just say I was surprised at his results but I guess the replies I got to that are what made me say more.
Exactly!One thing to remember is it's not just about the miles on the oil, but the application. Some cars are easier on oils than others, the weather situation, and the driving style. A car that is short tripped, has GDI, and is in a cold environment is very different than say, my aunt's '16 Toyota Avalon that I maintain. She drives it 33 miles on the freeway to work and back everyday, almost no traffic just set the cruise control at 75 mph. While it only has 86k miles on it, I've changed the oil every 10k miles with Mobil 1 AFE 0w20 every 10k miles since new, and have no doubts it would hit 300k miles effortlessly. She won't keep it that long but it would be fine and that engine would be clean as a whistle too.
As a mechanic, you're also only put into situations where there's a problem, it's a different perspective. You likely aren't seeing the many successes of those doing longer OCI's. You also don't know the daily habits of the driver and what they're putting the vehicle through.
My truck has always had cleanish looking oil towards the end of an oil change interval. I had a minor amount of oil usage (about 1 qt in 2500 miles) and blue smoke occasionally on startup (especially after running it hard the previous drive). I originally thought it was valve seals until I read about all the valve cover issues. Eventually I ordered a replacement valve cover and removed it finding the PCV completely plugged inside and plenty of sludge. It used conventional the first 180-190k miles, every 3-4k miles from somewhere around 140k miles, but probably based on olm before that (my boss used to drive it and in my early days here he would ask me to take his truck for an oil change when the olm went off). It's possible it missed a couple of oil changes over its lifetime (before I drove it). Other vehicles I've seen that were neglected would always dirty up the new oil really quickly (just like a diesel or direct injection engine)...based on how the oil always looked in this truck I never suspected it was neglected.HEMI's are dirty running enough that I doubt I'd ever run a 10K interval with either of mine (I'm sure you saw the filter that came off the 1500). But, with my Lincoln or Expedition? Wouldn't think twice about it, they were both easy on oil.
Longest OLM OCI in the RAM has been 14,031km; 8,718 miles. That was a year we did a lot of driving and it was March to August. Subsequent OCI's have been anything from 10,000km to 12,000km.
HEMI's are dirty running enough that I doubt I'd ever run a 10K interval with either of mine (I'm sure you saw the filter that came off the 1500). But, with my Lincoln or Expedition? Wouldn't think twice about it, they were both easy on oil.
Longest OLM OCI in the RAM has been 14,031km; 8,718 miles. That was a year we did a lot of driving and it was March to August. Subsequent OCI's have been anything from 10,000km to 12,000km.
My dad has pretty much (not always, but almost always) serviced his Expedition with Mobil 1, at 10-12,000km intervals (6,200 to 7,500 miles). I'm now curious to see what it looks like down the fill hole, so I'll see if I can snag a pic once he gets it back from the shop (it's getting the flywheel and starter replaced). It has 334,000km on it now IIRC (207,000 miles).My truck has always had cleanish looking oil towards the end of an oil change interval. I had a minor amount of oil usage (about 1 qt in 2500 miles) and blue smoke occasionally on startup (especially after running it hard the previous drive). I originally thought it was valve seals until I read about all the valve cover issues. Eventually I ordered a replacement valve cover and removed it finding the PCV completely plugged inside and plenty of sludge. It used conventional the first 180-190k miles, every 3-4k miles from somewhere around 140k miles, but probably based on olm before that (my boss used to drive it and in my early days here he would ask me to take his truck for an oil change when the olm went off). It's possible it missed a couple of oil changes over its lifetime (before I drove it). Other vehicles I've seen that were neglected would always dirty up the new oil really quickly (just like a diesel or direct injection engine)...based on how the oil always looked in this truck I never suspected it was neglected.
One thing I learned from my valve cover job is that (at least once the PCV is plugged with sludge) synthetic oil even at 3-4k mile/50% of the olm will not clean it up for a long time (at least not over about 40k miles before I finally removed the valve cover).
A catch can emptied daily solved the startup smoke before I got around to the valve cover job which fixed all oil consumption. It barely moves off the full in 3-4k miles now.
If I didn't already have the sludge I would push my oil changes a bit longer but I assume it's still a little dirty inside so I will keep changing it slightly early to hopefully help with any cleaning.
I'll have to check out your filter pics, I did not see them.
Sorry, off topic but it reminds me of one of my first experiences with sludge working at the ford dealer. A coworker and I borrowed a 99ish f150 from the used lot, that was traded in by a guy that was known to change the oil like every 30,000kms and he used it to plow. He would always trade up after like 5 years so it never hurt him.My dad has pretty much (not always, but almost always) serviced his Expedition with Mobil 1, at 10-12,000km intervals (6,200 to 7,500 miles). I'm now curious to see what it looks like down the fill hole, so I'll see if I can snag a pic once he gets it back from the shop (it's getting the flywheel and starter replaced). It has 334,000km on it now IIRC (207,000 miles).
As has been discussed in some other threads recently, oils aren't meant to clean, they are supposed to keep things clean. Actually removing deposits once they've been laid down is beyond the capabilities of your typical lubricant. The oil needs to be formulated with AN's and/or esters in order to be able to remove existing deposits, which is why M1 FS 0W-40 is an oil that Mobil has actively claimed, can clean, but they don't make the same claim for other products.
Unfortunately, the HEMI doesn't allow you to see anything down the oil fill hole and I'm not eager to pull a valve cover on either vehicle.
Awesome!View attachment 141325
The Fusion still runs great. The engine (2.3) uses about 8-10oz of oil with each 10k OCI. The head hasn't been removed, but I did change the VC gasket twice, along with a new starter 2 months ago and new injectors in November as well. The trans shifts perfect up and down, and I do change ATF every 30-40K. All lubricants have been M1 in both the engine and transmission. I use the MC FL 910S oil filter in the engine, and I also change the trans filter every other drain. My next goal for the car is 325K.
Good question!How long does it take you to run out to 10k.
Good point.One thing to remember is it's not just about the miles on the oil, but the application. Some cars are easier on oils than others, the weather situation, and the driving style. A car that is short tripped, has GDI, and is in a cold environment is very different than say, my aunt's '16 Toyota Avalon that I maintain. She drives it 33 miles on the freeway to work and back everyday, almost no traffic just set the cruise control at 75 mph. While it only has 86k miles on it, I've changed the oil every 10k miles with Mobil 1 AFE 0w20 every 10k miles since new, and have no doubts it would hit 300k miles effortlessly. She won't keep it that long but it would be fine and that engine would be clean as a whistle too.
As a mechanic, you're also only put into situations where there's a problem, it's a different perspective. You likely aren't seeing the many successes of those doing longer OCI's. You also don't know the daily habits of the driver and what they're putting the vehicle through.
6-10 monthsGood question!
An excellent point!Good point.
Let’s see I had a first year Ford Ranger 1983 2.8LLet's see. I had a 1985 Ford Escort diesel that went to 300K before wrecked. A 91 Ford Ranger 3.0 that had 354K when sold. A 1990 Ford Tempo gas with 250K when sold. A 1996 Merc GM with 218K when sold. A 2007 Ford Focus with 175K when totaled. And my present 2017 Ford Fusion with 143K. All these at 10K OCIs with M1 oils and MC filters.
I bet my Dad could beat up your Dad.Let’s see I had a first year Ford Ranger 1983 2.8L
V-6 200K when sold a 1987 Ford Ranger 2.9L
V-6 250K miles when sold 1997 F150 5.4L 2V motor 275K miles when sold
Never spent a dime out of pocket for repairs
Fords have served me well as I normally put high miles on them.Let’s see I had a first year Ford Ranger 1983 2.8L
V-6 200K when sold a 1987 Ford Ranger 2.9L
V-6 250K miles when sold 1997 F150 5.4L 2V motor 275K miles when sold
Never spent a dime out of pocket for repairs
Yes sirFords have served me well as I normally put high miles on them.
Same here. I've been driving them exclusively now for about 38 years. However my first Ford was a 69 Fairlane which was a reliable car.Yes sir
I’ve never had an issue with any Fords I’ve owned and I’ve owned a lot of em