My 0w20 Experiment is suddenly finished

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted by CT8

The anti drain back valve doesn't prevent the oil from draining from the oil passages, chain tensioner thingies, cam phasers ec. . and siphoning out of the oil filter depending on the placement of the filter.


+1

No oil filter will prevent oil from draining from the top end of the engine.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Originally Posted by CT8

The anti drain back valve doesn't prevent the oil from draining from the oil passages, chain tensioner thingies, cam phasers ec. . and siphoning out of the oil filter depending on the placement of the filter.
+1 No oil filter will prevent oil from draining from the top end of the engine.
Agreed, but if the filter has to "refill" that only adds to the time it takes to get oil back to the top of the engine thus extending the clatter time making it sound worse than it actually is.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Originally Posted by CT8

The anti drain back valve doesn't prevent the oil from draining from the oil passages, chain tensioner thingies, cam phasers ec. . and siphoning out of the oil filter depending on the placement of the filter.
+1 No oil filter will prevent oil from draining from the top end of the engine.
Agreed, but if the filter has to "refill" that only adds to the time it takes to get oil back to the top of the engine thus extending the clatter time making it sound worse than it actually is.


Yup when its YOUR engine those extra few seconds of clatter feel like hours.

 

[RDY4WAR]

My Camaro sits during the off-season. The first time I start it up after sitting, even when I manually prime the oil pump, it will clatter and tick for 5-10 seconds. That's with the appropriate oil viscosity. I think the sitting for a while is the reason for the clattering, not the oil.

 

[Rand]

so oil thats 15-25% thicker cured this.. H O G W A S H.

if that was the case on a 90f day your 5w30 is thinner than the 0w20 in spring.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by alarmguy
I would think it has nothing to do with film strength, sounds more like lifter or oil filter bleed down, void of oil after 5.5 weeks. I suspect / almost know your 5w30 would have been the same after 5.5 weeks.

I am surprised though, I see from your list, you use premium oils in your other vehicle's but went way off script to save some money on the Colorado oil change! I kind of "get it" I have dont that on older truck at one time but that is a bit of an extreme I think but what do I know.. .*L*

The 0w20 was intended for the daughter's Honda. I forgot about it and it sat and collected dust - far under the basement steps. So the experiment began.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
My Camaro sits during the off-season. The first time I start it up after sitting, even when I manually prime the oil pump, it will clatter and tick for 5-10 seconds. That's with the appropriate oil viscosity. I think the sitting for a while is the reason for the clattering, not the oil.


The 2nd startup - three hours after the first startup, was almost as bad. That's why I pondered the NAPA's film strength.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Agreed sounds like the OP has a leaky ADBV, and or it just bled down.

I

UD

I used the same filter and no ADBV leak with the new oil.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by supton
Before the computer went haywire, did you have this startup noise?

When the computer died, what did it do?

I'm wondering if it dumped a bunch of gas into the oil and what you had was super thin oil as a result. Meaning it isn't worth drawing conclusions from. But that assumes you didn't have startup clatter before this failure--if you did, then your question would still stand.

I'm wondering this also. It kept stalling and power cutting off, for a week in advance. I smelled a little gas changing the oil. But when I tipped my plastic oil pan into my XL Detergent soap jug for recycle, it was almost dark outside and I couldn't tell if colored streaks were in the oil. I am not versed well on how thin, old, used 0w20 oil should pour when drained. But I recall the 0w20 draining too fast into the funnel. That meant the oil was thinner than I'm used to with 5w30.

So in ending, 5.5 weeks was to blame and quite possibly dumping a little gas in the oil by a faulty computer, was possible also. My ADBV seems to be behaving normally.

Thanks everyone for their two cents / help.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Have we ever discussed film strength before - here at BITOG? Wouldn't film strength tests like what I uncovered, be a good indicator on how well some of these thin 0w20s protect our engine, over the course of a long-term shutdown of 5-1/2 weeks?

Or should we expect the same engine clatter, from all 0w20 synthetic oils, after a long-term shutdown?


I suspect the start-up noise was mostly due to the oil filter ADBV allowing oil to drain out of parts of the engines. If this engine has a hydraulic valve train, it's possible some of that can leak down if sitting that long, even if the ADBV is working. I've started a vehicle that used 5W-20 after it sat for 3+ months and it had no strange engine noises at all at start-up.

Good article on oil film strength:
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30835/lubricant-film-strength

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Not too much of an experiment and it sounds like the noise was created by the oil draining down for 5+ weeks or alternately, the ADBV did not seal properly.

This.

The anti drain back valve doesn't prevent the oil from draining from the oil passages, chain tensioner thingies, cam phasers ec. . and siphoning out of the oil filter depending on the placement of the filter.


A leaky filter ADBV can cause any oil located above the filter to drain out.

 

[JMJNet]

IMO, there is something wrong with the engine itself.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Yup when its YOUR engine those extra few seconds of clatter feel like hours.


I agree! Hearing that noise is honestly traumatizing!

 

[OilUzer]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Agreed sounds like the OP has a leaky ADBV, and or it just bled down.


I run the same Napa (valvoline) 0w-20 in my Ridgeline or I should say thats in the sump now.

It sat for 5 weeks as well during coronavirus lockdown.

Fired right up - nothing notable, its a belt car so there is no hydraulic tensioner to pump up there.



UD


UncleDave,
I would have never guessed you use 0W20

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
My Colorado engine was built for 5w30. I had six quarts of six year-old NAPA 0w20 hidden under the steps of the basement and when we changed flooring, I uncovered that box.

So I tried it in the Colorado as an experiment. After 1k in accumulted miles, my computer in the 3.5 engine went haywire and needed a replacement. It took five weeks to get the new computer from Florida, over 1300 miles away. Shipping and storage during COVID was to blame for the long delay.

I was at the mechanic's business garage when the new computer was downloaded and installed. Now was the time to start the engine after 5-1/2 weeks of shutdown. Upon startup, the loudest clatter erupted from the engine, similar to an engine without oil. Lasted almost five seconds. Some tweaking was done to the computer readings and truck was placed outdoors.

Wife arrived with the checkbook three hours later to pay the bill. I started the engine again and another five seconds of loud clatter occurred. So my question here is oil film strength. Is it possible to rate today's 0w20 SN Plus (soon SP) oils on film strength? Would I be wrong in saying NAPA 0w20 Synthetic has lousy film strength? That Colorado 3.5 engine is not of the old-school flat-tappet design, that it's predecessor 1999 Chevy S10 with 4.3 engine had? The 3.5 is more of a reflection of today's engine designs.

BTW..... my cold engine starts have returned to normal, just by removing the 0w20 - removing the almost new oil filter - letting the filter drain empty and reinstalling it - plus installing new oil ....Pennzoil Gold Synthetic Blend 5w30.

Have we ever discussed film strength before - here at BITOG? Wouldn't film strength tests like what I uncovered, be a good indicator on how well some of these thin 0w20s protect our engine, over the course of a long-term shutdown of 5-1/2 weeks?

Or should we expect the same engine clatter, from all 0w20 synthetic oils, after a long-term shutdown?

Such cold-start valvetrain clatters have often been attributed to defective variable-valve-timing actuators. If using an oil that runs a lot thicker when cold—a normally undesirable thing—corrects the problem, it's neither a good fix nor a permanent fix. Chances are that the same problem will reoccur in warmer- or colder-weather cold starts.

All oils, even a SAE 0W-8 oil, have extremely thick oil films when they are cold. Therefore, oil-film strength is a nonissue in a cold engine.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Agreed sounds like the OP has a leaky ADBV, and or it just bled down.


I run the same Napa (valvoline) 0w-20 in my Ridgeline or I should say thats in the sump now.

It sat for 5 weeks as well during coronavirus lockdown.

Fired right up - nothing notable, its a belt car so there is no hydraulic tensioner to pump up there.

UD


UncleDave,
I would have never guessed you use 0W20

I have a hard time with it myself.
I suspect I'll keep this truck on 20, its pretty easy on oil.

UD

 

[TrainingPolicy]

What I think is important in this chart is that while yes the Civic SI oil weight changed frequently. Also, did the engines. The 1999-2000 were running a 1.6L B series, in 2002-2006 they made the switch to a K20 but it was the economy K20 making a measly 160 hp. When they started putting the 200 hp K20 in 2007, they upgraded the specs to a 5w30 since it was revving to some odd 9k RPMS. Then starting in 2012 that put the K24 in the civic si, which is very similar to the ones found in the Accord hence why they run similar spec'd oil weight. So while yes the civic's name has remained the same, the engines in this car has changed a lot during this time.
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Originally Posted by Char Baby
Not that I think you should move again to 0W20 however, I believe some new(today's) 0W20 may not clatter in your Colorado's engine.

In 2006, my buddy sold his 2000 Civic and he gave me his left over NAPA dion 5W20. I used this 5W20 in my 1988 Accord(yes, 1988) 2.0L carb. w/340000 miles on it. The 2.0L Accord ran fine however, back in '88 the required oil was 5W30/10W30. This Accord, in my best memory DID NOT allow for 5W20 motor oil.


I was looking at the Honda oil chart yesterday and it showed the Civic Si started at 5W30,went to 5W20,then back to 5W30,and then to 0W20

 

[dlundblad]

I'm not against 0/5w20 oils, but I'm certainly not a fan of going down a grade compared to what's its spec'd for.

You're brave for trying it.

 

[demarpaint]

I'm thinking bleed down of the lifters as well. Having said that my bet is a 30 grade oil would have made less noise after sitting that long. The bet is based on my observations from both my Jeeps which I ran on 5W20 oil then switched over to a 30 grade. Flame suit on.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by dlundblad
I'm not against 0/5w20 oils, but I'm certainly not a fan of going down a grade compared to what's its spec'd for.

You're brave for trying it.


It ran really well and remained quiet on 0w20. Seemed to have more pep too. It's possible that had my computer not went into two different error codes, that ow20 might still be in the engine.

Will I try it again?.... No. That was just some leftover oil and the consensus here at BITOG is that the 0w20 oils are built very well.... a strong, robust oil, more than it's closest counterpart 5w20. So I stared Mr. Dare in the face and tried it.

This 3.5 Colorado's favorite oil is the Castrol Euro 0w40. That's going back-in next Spring. Little consumption in 5K with it. With 5w30, I was consuming a quart in 5K. The almost 17 year-old vehicle only has 132k on the odometer. Runs like new.
What I hate are the new All Season 4X4 mud tires. Before I had soft, whisper-quiet Michelin Defenders. So my car-like ride now turned into a louder, truck-like ride. I made a big Boo-Boo there. For it only rarely sees hunting duties in the off-road, which isn't that bad of a road to begin with.