Motul xclean 5w40 gen2, 3700 miles on oil/6 month oci. 2016 Subaru wrx. Fa20dit

[Scubie 16]

I have a 2016 wrx with 68k miles. Modded right before I started trending uoa’s. Added an intake, intercooler, flex fuel (e60) making about 370whp/350wtq. Copper has been trending up. No other significant wear metals. Car runs great. It was suggested either bearing wear or possible turbo bearing. But no tin/lead as you can see. I have read leaching can cause this when changing oil types which I did before but the last 3 tested here have been the same oil. I change it twice a year. The car runs great. No smoke. No consumption. No loss of power or boost. I have been using black stone. They have suggested once I hit 90 ppm that’s where you would be concerned to spin a bearing or bushing.

Looking for any advice.

 

[Scubie 16]

This is a daily driver with spirited driving. No track use

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I don't want to be negative because there's a soft spot in my heart for Subarus, but IMHO you need to find a different oil because this one just isn't doing you any favors. It's out of grade, has lost nearly 2.5cSt which either means significant shearing, fuel, or both, and you've got an unknown source of copper. I don't know too much about how the lower-SAPS oils interact with ethanol blends, but that may also be an issue.

In addition to changing to something like the Castrol 0W40, I would definitely shorten your next OCI and sample at 2500 or so (don't drain yet until analysis comes back), but to try to flush the copper to see if there is a real issue, you could buy a cheaper semi/syn and run it for a day or two, then drain & fill with the Castrol. I'm sure your car has an oil cooler and that may also be the source, I do not know if the Motul is capable of leeching copper. Plus, the high calcium and lower magnesium is not doing you any favors for LSPI, which may be what would be pounding your bearings.

TL;DR: shorten OCI, try a different better-suited oil.

 

[Scubie 16]

If I was having lspi wouldn’t that show on my accessport? Dam has stayed at 1. I get the occasional 1.4 fbk usually attributed to ac compressor kicking on. Motul 5w40 is the #1 recommended oil for the fa20dit if tuned. I’m not opposed to changing though.

 

[Scubie 16]

If I was having lspi wouldn’t that show on my accessport? Dam has stayed at 1. I get the occasional 1.4 fbk usually attributed to ac compressor kicking on. Motul 5w40 is the #1 recommended oil for the fa20dit if tuned. I’m not opposed to changing though.

The car does have an oil heat exchanger which has copper. But with 68k miles I didn’t think that was likely unless it’s due to changing oil which I had done before starting the oil analysis.

 

[Scubie 16]

From my research the fa20dit is known to shear oil down. It calls for 5w30. My tuner recommends 5w40 due to this. I will sample sooner. Not worried about cost. Is 2500 best or can I do it sooner? It takes about 6 months to go 3k miles usually.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

If all we’re doing is going by the data, and money is not an issue, start sampling at 2k miles and then every 1k, until you find the mileage where your oil is no longer in grade.

Is there a lot of idling, or short tripping, or is your tuner set up overly rich to protect your shortblock? What kind of mileage are other customers with similar mods getting on their OCIs? If theirs are longer without the low viscosity, I would lean towards excess fuel rather than shear.

 

[Scubie 16]

If all we’re doing is going by the data, and money is not an issue, start sampling at 2k miles and then every 1k, until you find the mileage where your oil is no longer in grade.

Is there a lot of idling, or short tripping, or is your tuner set up overly rich to protect your shortblock? What kind of mileage are other customers with similar mods getting on their OCIs? If theirs are longer without the low viscosity, I would lean towards excess fuel rather than shear.

I reached out to my tuner. He recommended switching oils. Sticking w a 5w40. Shorter oci’s. I just changed it so I may change to another brand oil after 1k miles and send a sample. Then change at 2k and send a sample. I may try pup 5w40 or rotella as these have both been popular w the fa20dit.

No excessive idling. My typical trip is 15-20 minutes commute. I usually go wot a few times a week but have cut back since it was trending up. That didn’t seem to help although I went a few hundred miles further this oci. I have an aos so I’m not sure the calcium/lspi is as much of a risk.

I’m not sure how bad this really is. Considering getting rid of the car at this point and getting a newer sti.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I’d wait on getting rid of it… like I said, buy a jug of QSUD 5w30, change the oil & filter, drive around town for the day, then drain it again and change the filter again, and replace with your new 40wt oil. This will heavily dilute the oil that’s left in the engine when you drain the Motul, and give you a better idea if the issue is really engine-related or a function of the Motul. You’re out roughly $25 to help “flush” the copper, but at least now you’ll know for sure if it’s time to part ways with it.

 

[Scubie 16]

I’d wait on getting rid of it… like I said, buy a jug of QSUD 5w30, change the oil & filter, drive around town for the day, then drain it again and change the filter again, and replace with your new 40wt oil. This will heavily dilute the oil that’s left in the engine when you drain the Motul, and give you a better idea if the issue is really engine-related or a function of the Motul. You’re out roughly $25 to help “flush” the copper, but at least now you’ll know for sure if it’s time to part ways with it.

I have a jug and a half of Kirkland synthetic 5w30 that’s been sitting in the garage a couple years. That doesn’t go bad does it? One jug has been opened but the other is still sealed.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Perfect

 

[bluesubie]

If you use Rotella do not use the 5W-40 diesel version. High SAPS oils are not ideal in Subaru DIT’s. If you have done TGV/EGR deletes then it’s probably fine. The calcium isn’t super low but the level isn’t high enough to cause LSPI IMO. And the FA20DIT isn’t known for LSPI issues either. Typically bearing problems show up as elevated silver.

IAG Performance recommends X-clean 5W-30 in their built FA20 DIT‘s so I’m not sure that the elevated copper is a result of your oil selection. Although running E60 might be a different story. I’d also switch to Oil Anayzer’s Inc for a more accurate fuel dilution reading via Gas Chromatography.

Is this an e-tune or a dyno tune?

 

[Scubie 16]

If you use Rotella do not use the 5W-40 diesel version. High SAPS oils are not ideal in Subaru DIT’s. If you have done TGV/EGR deletes then it’s probably fine. The calcium isn’t super low but the level isn’t high enough to cause LSPI IMO. And the FA20DIT isn’t known for LSPI issues either. Typically bearing problems show up as elevated silver.

IAG Performance recommends X-clean 5W-30 in their built FA20 DIT‘s so I’m not sure that the elevated copper is a result of your oil selection. Although running E60 might be a different story. I’d also switch to Oil Anayzer’s Inc for a more accurate fuel dilution reading via Gas Chromatography.

Is this an e-tune or a dyno tune?

E tuned. By one of the top fa20dit tuners. Maybe the top one imo. Tgv/egr done. The car had been done a year and a half. Runs great. What else could the source of copper be from? The guy from black stone mentioned possibly the turbo bearing. I’ve read bearing wear typically has copper along with lead/tin. As for the viscosity they all lose some. I don’t have an oil cooler. I checked with iag and the aos doesn’t have any copper that could be leaching into the oil. Are you thinking the ethanol/fuel dilution is causing increased wear? At what point does this become a major problem? The black stone guy said 90 ppm but I’ve seen uoa’s with higher copper. I’ll look at oil analyzers vs black stone.

 

[bluesubie]

E tuned. By one of the top fa20dit tuners. Maybe the top one imo. Tgv/egr done. The car had been done a year and a half. Runs great. What else could the source of copper be from? The guy from black stone mentioned possibly the turbo bearing. I’ve read bearing wear typically has copper along with lead/tin. As for the viscosity they all lose some. I don’t have an oil cooler. I checked with iag and the aos doesn’t have any copper that could be leaching into the oil. Are you thinking the ethanol/fuel dilution is causing increased wear? At what point does this become a major problem? The black stone guy said 90 ppm but I’ve seen uoa’s with higher copper. I’ll look at oil analyzers vs black stone.

Elevated copper in these engines isn’t that common but Subaru hasn’t used lead in the bearings since around 2008, so I suppose it could be the turbo. There are a lot of 2.0DIT WRX uoa’s posted on NASIOC in the 2015+ WRX uoa thread so have a look there. You can probably find some here as well doing a Google search. I don’t recall if there are many in either place on ethanol though.

Usually fuel dilution alone doesn’t show high wear on a few uoa’s. I just think it’s especially important for a tuned DIT WRX to have the most accurate picture of fuel dilution and you get that with OAI or another lab that uses GC to measure fuel. I guess do the short run on Kirkland and do another 3k run on your next oil and see how the next uoa looks.

 

[edyvw]

E60=Xw50.
Go Mobil1 5W50.

 

[Vermess]

E60??? I'd check that hpfp. That turbo uses ball bearings, not sure you'll find copper there.

IMHO, park it, pull it apart before you'll need a new long block.

 

[Vermess]

And the FA20DIT isn’t known for LSPI issues either.

Stop it, please. ALL Subaru dit engines are known for LSPI.

 

[bluesubie]

Stop it, please. ALL Subaru dit engines are known for LSPI.

Care to share some details or pics?

 

[Vermess]

Care to share some details or pics?

Details??? I've owned 3 of them. 2015,2016,2018 wrx. All had issues with lspi. Early wrx, ie 15 and 16 were so bad, they had factory updates to the tunes. Both the 15 and 18 had replacement l9ng blocks under warranty due to lspi.

You want pictures of LSPI events??? I'll need you and the person liking your comment to donate a few million dollars for specialty equipment, then I'll be more than happy to provide such pictures.

If you're looking for pictures of damaged fadit engines due to lspi, Google is your friend.

 

[Chris142]

Wonder if the mods are causing the crank to walk and beat up the thrust bearings?