Can’t find a recent VOA (within last 5yrs). Anyone run it? How would it fair for 5k mile OCI? Higher mint than Redline, lower TBN I could tell. Just sent off a 2500mi Redline 5w30 sample to the lab was thinking of trying this out in my B58. Not worried about approvals.
Motul V300 0w-40 competition
- Thread starter FlyingTexan
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hi, edyvw has a UOA 5-40 300 V of his bmw posted somewhere, i guess you know.
i dont think there will be such a huge difference between 0 and 5.
specs are similar by the way,only pour point is a bit higher, -51 the 0-40 , (-48 the 5-40) , meaning perhaps
a little more PAO than the 5-40.higher viscosity index .
should held well i guess .
it seems that we dont have access to motul's SDS anymore, probably they decided not to go on public. same for castrol.
i dont think there will be such a huge difference between 0 and 5.
specs are similar by the way,only pour point is a bit higher, -51 the 0-40 , (-48 the 5-40) , meaning perhaps
a little more PAO than the 5-40.higher viscosity index .
should held well i guess .
it seems that we dont have access to motul's SDS anymore, probably they decided not to go on public. same for castrol.
The latest pdf I found (06/2024) gives a TBN of 8.1, mentions LSPI "compatibility" and also a non fossil based base oil. I think that's the same pdf svenson put.
https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/300v_comp_0w-40_en_de_motul_13310_20240614.pdf
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found it:
I've been reading on that just out of curiosity on why all 0w oils lost their LL01 certs and I guess it has to do with the VII used and it lowers the overall quality of the oil? I was reading where Hemi guys that swear by Redline were saying to always use the 5wX oil and not the 0wX because the 0w had that much of a difference in performance.
as edyvw explained many times here, the loss of ll01 on 0w oils was probably due to raise of already ridiculous oxidation limits by bmw.
now they probably reduced them or they found a new recipe and it is back on 0w oils.
i have never used a 0w oil and i cant tell for the difference you mention, but i have heard a lot of people that they did say that. tigeo claimed that and especially for an oil that is top of the top appreciated here on bitog, M1 0-40.
my personal opinion coming from experience and observation is not all oils act the same in every engine.for many reasons.
many experienced members here say that gtl is one of the best bases ,with lower noack ,but some users, me too incuded, whenever they used an oil with gtl base, had noticeable consumption.
Yep.
No one really knows what BMW was doing but every BMW now uses 0W oils, same for almost every other mfg. I don’t think 0W is inherently worse and we did see with LSJ’s testing at HPL that M1 0W-40 lost less viscosity than Castrol Edge 5W-40. The M1 ESP X3 and X4 hold viscosity extremely well and I’m not sure there's big downsides any longer. The conflict is that 5W oils are often more cheaply formulated, so while the 5W ideally could have lower Noack and be more stable, we actually do not know since major brand 5W are sometimes cost-reduced products.
well, surfing for other reasons i found that older presentantion of motul lines,5 years ago and it explains what exactly was the reason:
https://www.motul.com/ca/en-US/news/products-innovation/motul-difference-xclean-xcess-gen2
https://www.motul.com/ca/en-US/news/products-innovation/motul-difference-xclean-xcess-gen2
Seems like that would mean creating a new spec. If new engines needed a new type of oil then a new spec. But changing the spec means changing things for all the past engines. Suddenly all the engines needed a lower viscosity oil?
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
They did not change the spec. BMW, like all other manufacturers, updated their approvals in 2018. All companies knew that ahead of time. Actually, Mobil1 dropped LL01 in 0W40 in November 2015 when API SN 0W40 was released. Technically, it could meet current LL01 at that time (LL01-2012), before 2018 update, but they till went away with it.
A lot in that statement by Motul is marketing, to show transparency why something happened. Not bad on them, but in reality, it is simpler than what they state.
Also, 5W40's never lost LL01, Motul or any others as they utilize more Group III which BMW actually demands to be part of the composition due to gasket deterioration.
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The required minimum HT/HS never changed. Or are you talking about a different approval?
The required HTHS did change. The same exact engine I have now, a B58, was designed around BMW LL01 with a min HTHS of 3.5. After CAFE came into the picture they are now running BMW LL17FE+ which is HTHS of 2.6.
They went form LL01 to LL17FE+ for the same B58 at least
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
I am saying that they did not change LL01. LL01, the same as all LL approvals, goes through a periodical update.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
B58 was designed for 0W20 from the beginning.
As any engine, it can run thicker oil without problem.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
That does not mean an engine is not designed with 0W20 in mind.
CAFE was current long before B or N engines were introduced. With ever more stringent CAFE requirements, manufacturers moved to 0W20.
However, in N55 you cannot do that as it is not designed for anything that thin. B generation is, for even lower than that, 0W12.
However, BMW like all other manufacturers, will opt in for higher HTHS if possible. Which means, back then they could get away with LL01 or 04. But they needed bump in CAFE; so they switched to LL17.
Yes for a different approval. It’s why I asked if you were talking about a different one. But nothing changed in that regard for Longlife-01
It is clear that B58 was designed for FE oils based on the coatings used. Even the original B58 used IROX coated bearings and they were back specified to LL-01FE in the US. TIS shows it as the recommended oil for even Gen 1 B58. There is no doubt that BMW had this transition in mind when developing the engine.
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